Senate Homosexuality: the Thread

Aren't whispers technically heard?

 

I have one question, now that gays and lesbians can get married, what about divorce? Yes they can get divorced but when does their marriage actually start? When they were legally married or some other time? I say this because when it comes time for a divorce both spouses will have a different date in mind. Why, because one will want more money and one will want give up less money. Or if a child is involved does the non birth parent be considered the parent from when the kid was born or not at all. More or less going from a son to a stepson.


The states should issue documents stating when the couple agrees when the marriage actually started while they are still happy, so for future use the gov't can say this is when you were unofficially married so this is the date your life together started.

 

I'm pretty sure the only date the law cares about is the date on their marriage license.

 

What? Is that you, Jaden Smith? Do you like Stah Wahs?

 

I have to say, even though many of my facebook friends are Christians and some of those are conservatives as well, I haven't heard hardly any backlash against this ruling. Even from people who were previously pretty opposed, such as my parents. For one thing, in spite of what the loud older people in the church say, the majority of young Christians (and even many young conservatives) are pro-gay marriage.

But what I was really surprised about was my parents. I figured my mom, who is conservative but smart, would be somewhat reasonable. But she went a step further and actually just said, "even though I don't support it personally, there was clearly no legal basis for banning gay marriage." So she didn't mind the ruling at all. But the crazy thing is my dad, who is the most stereotypical Limbaugh-loving conservative Christian possible said in response to the ruling.... that he didn't care. It didn't affect him or his marriage and he said it's just not that big of a deal, that he didn't care. And I said, "which is exactly how it should be."

I feel like some people who used to be vehemently opposed to this have basically given in over time, once the arguments had all been put forward and it was clear there was just no legal argument to be made and that this is a civil rights issue that is a terrible choice to hinge a political platform on, especially as the tides turned nationwide.

Sadly, there are obviously still a lot of bigots out there. But the tide has turned to some degree and sadly some hateful people are always going to exist.

But mostly what I want to say about this is to thank gay men and women around this country vehemently for what they've done.

Obviously there's still a long way to go on a lot of issues. But I think it's promising considering how fast the gay marriage thing turned around. And I want to say, I really think the main reason for this is gay people themselves. I think one of the reasons that desegregation, for instance, was slower to gain traction with the majority is that unfortunately many white people had little meaningful interaction with black people. So it was a lot easier to dehumanize them. But homosexuality is not something that only exists in one race, one class, or one region. Gay people are the neighbors, the friends, the coworkers, and the family members of everyone in the country. And because gay people everywhere became brave enough to come out, I think that vastly accelerated the change of heart and mind.

When you have people like Dick Cheney coming out in support of gay marriage because of his lesbian daughter, it becomes clear that it's just much harder for any reasonable people to be so hateful toward someone they know. Gay people around the country have been brave enough to put a personal face on this important civil rights issue. And I truly think many people who are still vehemently opposed to gay marriage are simply people who don't know many out gay people.

For me, I know that I just kind of went with the conservative culture I was raised in for a long time on this issue. I personally had no reason to be against gay marriage, but I was told I was supposed to be. So I was... until I actually started talking to gay people here as a teenager. Until I started knowing actual gay people. Then I understood it, understood that this wasn't even a religious issue at all (although when I also studied the Bible and theology in college, I also came to understand that its stance on homosexuality was nothing like what I'd been taught as a kid, so I don't have any kind of issue with it at all... not only that, but my faith is part of what drives me to want equal rights for all).

So I just wanted to say "thank you" to all the brave men and women around this country who have put themselves out there at great personal, physical, emotional, and social risk. Who stood up and let us see that they were people in need of, in many cases, our unwavering support. But at the very least, of basic human dignity. When I see people like my conservative parents acknowledging that this is okay, it's not going to destroy anything, and that it's even what is constitutionally correct... there's no one who deserves more credit for this change than gay people themselves.

So, from the bottom of my heart -- for the sake of myself, my family, and the country -- thank you for your bravery, your humanity, and teaching us all how to love better.

 

Beautiful post, solojones!

 

Are their Christian denominations out there which teach the cause of homosexuality comes from genetic manipulation caused by a virus? This is a peculiar argument I have heard before, but I'm not sure if it's doctrine or a popular thought perpetuated by religion or not. It sounds strange to me.

 

There's far too much (garbage) science in that for a pure good vs evil evangelical Christian to get on board with such an idea

 

Double post

 

Most evangelical denominations have very little actual doctrine outside the basics of the Nicene or Apostle's Creed. It's not like Catholicism with tons and tons of official doctrine and heresies to cross check.

However, certain congregations, pastors, and whole regions certainly develop their own personal perspectives and dogma. This is often based much more on the local cultural standards than on Biblical teachings. (For instance, the idea of "the rapture" is not in the Bible and was a fringe belief before the Left Behind books became popular.)

But for all the specific and crazy dogma I've heard, I've definitely never heard the virus thing. Some may speak of homosexuality as an illness (mental or spiritual), but not literally a virus you can catch.

Basically, there may be whack jobs who believe that, but it's certainly not based on the Bible but only on local crackpot theories that have about as much to do with Biblical teachings as the 9/11 Truther movement does.... They're just insane theories held by insane people; religion is just an excuse certain bigots may slap on there to feel legit.

Not to mention, people who are bigoted about anything love to use this as their excuse... Basically "I personally love you guys, but it's not my choice, see... My religion told me I had to be prejudiced against you!"

 

If homosexuality was a virus, then wouldn't we see an alarming trend of children raised by homosexual couples turning out to be gay? Because, you know, you never see straight couples raising gay children.

Wait...

 

In the word's of Willy Nelson on gay marriage decades ago, Let them be miserable.

He also said Divorce is worth every penny.

 

Allow me to take your point seriously for a moment. So what?

Yes, it's very nice that tithes and offerings are tax-deductible. But that was never really promised to Christians. Nor would it represent anything like a substantial burden. It would be a financial inconvenience. While I know the specter of tax increases is among the most horrifying things to an American conservative, one really must have a miserable, worthless faith if it would fall apart over such a small thing. I do hope everyone who goes to church finds greater value in God than the tax write off.

 

Beezer is not me in any way. I never said no to gay marriage or have people whispering to me.

So don't get me mixed up with him please.

 

Applying a political litmus test to whether or not a religion merits tax exempt status is a frightening intrusion on religious freedom, i.e. "some religions are more equal than others."

Wow. Strawman much? Where did I say anything about such institutions falling apart?

And I do hope someday you decide to actually educate yourself. It would make for a more interesting conversation.

 

I don't think anyone supports that. In fact, I'm going to ask you for evidence that it's happening. And I hope you do better than a brietbart article that misrepresents everything.

 

Applying a political litmus test to whether or not a religion merits tax exempt status is a frightening intrusion on religious freedom, i.e. "some religions are more equal than others."
[/quote]

Yeah! That could lead to all kinds of other litmus tests, huh?

Like what if your religion had its tax exemption threatened for endorsing Presidential candidates, even though a religion could logically anoint someone to lead a country, and in the past almost all of them have? What if they went even further, and threatened jail or deportation for encouraging people to fight in what a religious teacher genuinely thought was a holy war?

Oh, wait.

 

Render unto caesar, holmes

 

So, this lady doesn't seem to be taking this too well.

 

Islamic Extremelist.

 

IS-LAAAAAAA-MIC!

 

In a move that doesn't actually surprise me, The Episcopal Church votes (by a pretty large margin) to perform same-sex marriages and are removing gender specific language in church canon. It will not be mandatory for individual priests to marry anyone, but that's been the case all along.

The reason it doesn't surprise me is the Episcopal Church has been pretty progressive as far as LGBTQ community goes. They elected an openly gay Bishop, have blessed same-sex couples and marriages for a while now. It only made sense for them to make that move.

I'm sure that's going to make a few people mad, my mom's church (the church I grew up in before I decided I was non-religious) ran a priest out of town basically because he voted yes to blessing same-sex marriages. And let me tell you, that priest was the best thing that had ever happened to that church, they just couldn't see it.