Homosexuality: What's up with that? (V.2)

Bless you!

 

Why, thank you, Kaine. Such a gentleman.

 

*Giggles*

 

Less flirt, more talk.

I'd still like to see DM justify his views.

When he called it an aberrancy, he clearly did not mean it in the purely semantic sense. I doubt even he presumes us stupid enough to need state obvious fact. I believe that he used 'aberrant' in this case to say that homosexuality is abnormal not in a statistical sense, but in a moral and acceptability sense.

And I'd like him to explain why.

There's no reason. Homosexuality is no more physically or emotionally painful or dangerous, if practiced properly, than heterosexuality. The Church and the Bible has, at best, an ambiguous stance on it, and the VAST MAJORITY of Christians, Muslims and Jews that I know have absolutely no problem with homosexuality.

- Scarlet.

 

The post I edited yesterday was about a parallel between races and sexual orientation (stating that it was very Hitler-like to discriminate those that aren't the 'norm')... Since the talk here apparently was getting a bit too intense I decided to remove it until things were cooler.

Now that things are, here are a couple links about Nazis and their position toward homosexuality during WW2:

Nazi concentration camps 1933-45. Read the 1943 entry.

Hitler's Homosexual Policies.

So, if ideas of discrimination of homosexuals are right for some, then unfortunatly people don't seem to have evolved or learned all that much out of past mistakes such as those, which is a shame.

 

"Homosexuality is no more physically or emotionally painful or dangerous, if practiced properly, than heterosexuality."


Heterosexuality was invented by God, according to the Bible, and is proper, according to nature. It is the natural order of things. Homosexuality is not.


"The Church and the Bible has, at best, an ambiguous stance on it..."


I can't find any verses right now, but I assure you, it is condemned in the Bible. If you really want me to, I'll try to find them.


"...and the VAST MAJORITY of Christians, Muslims and Jews that I know have absolutely no problem with homosexuality."


I can't speak for Muslims or Jews, but as for Christians, perhaps the problem is that most Christians rely on the church in their relationship with God. If they would study their Bible daily, they would see that it is wrong in the Judeo-Christian God's eyes. Another problem is that everyone's trying so hard to be PC these days, including Christians, who are commanded in their Bible to be set apart from the rest of the world.

 

You must be new to this thread. God didn't write the Bible, people did. Homosexuality occurs in nature; it is therefore natural.

 

In my opinion, God wrote the Bible through people.


Homosexuality does occur in a nature every no and then, but that's obviously not something to use as an argument. No animal EVER stays homosexual. They may go up to something of the same sex out of horniness, but they don't seek out the same sex everytime they want to mate. I attribute that to they're sole desires of eating and reproduction. They find food where they can find it, and they find lovin' where it can be found.


Heterosexulaity is what makes the world go 'round. Oppposites attract. Maybe it's just me, but nature seems to promote heterosexuality.

 

EDIT: Never mind.

 

But if it's against nature, then why are all the bits and pieces there, and why is it made pleasurable? Surely, if it were against nature as you say, it wouldn't even be possible naturally, nevermind pleasureable. But it is. Therefore it is natural. What's there to argue on this point?

 

I can't find any verses right now, but I assure you, it is condemned in the Bible. If you really want me to, I'll try to find them.

Please not that again. Every verse possible has been trotted out and argued for and against. Just look back through some recent pages for an example.

I suggest toning down the rhetoric.

 

Heterosexulaity is what makes the world go 'round. Oppposites attract. Maybe it's just me, but nature seems to promote heterosexuality.

Heterosexuality leads to reproduction, if not blocked by contraceptives or abortion. That's about its only advantage though. Heterosexual relationships aren't inherently better than gay ones. Many gay couples have relationships that last longer than many straight marriages.

Opposite genders may usually attract, but that's obviously not the case for us gay folk. And as different as they may be biologically, men and women in my experience are usually attracted to people who are more like themselves in other respects. They have similar tastes, beliefs, etc.

And if God wrote the Bible through people, then maybe you can explain something. There are four gospels about the life of Jesus, and yet each one had a different chronology. Why don't they agree, and for that matter, why were four needed? And why could Jesus not mention such important matters as the length of men's hair? Why was that left up to the mysoginistic Paul to cover? And why does Paul's one mention of men's hair length contradict other verses in which long hair on men was seen as a good thing? If you read Exodus and Leviticus, God approves of slavery. I could sell my daughter (if I had one) into slavery, and God would be A-OK with it. I wear glasses, and according to the Bible, that makes me unfit to approach an altar in a church. So tell me, does that sound like a document that God wrote through people, or that people wrote?

 

No, this is not going to turn into a discussion on the Bible and/or its merits. That's for another thread.

 

So, who's watching this week's Will & Grace?

 

KnightWriter & Red-Seven:

Would there be a way that we can have a sort of "read this before you post in this thread" sort of deal? That way, we could list all the Bible verses, arguments for and against, etc so that people wouldn't bring up that same tired subject again? I'm not sure how we would go about this, but perphaps you know of a solution.

I'm not opposed to continuing the Bible debate, but I think it should be done from the jumping point of where we have already been. If religious people want to be debate that, I am up for it, provided that they read what we have already said about it and address THOSE points, rather than making us repeat them.

Ideas?

And no, I don't watch Will & Grace.

 

Discussing Scriptural verses as they pertain to the homosexuality debate is fine, just a bit tired by now. I just don't want to see the Bible itself and its merits (or demerits) being debated here. That's for another thread.

I was actually thinking of having a new thread started, as this one is getting a bit long, and extended threads have a way of keeping out new participants.

 

That sounds like a good idea. Would you like me to start a new thread, post links to the old ones and perhaps the pages concerning the Bible, so that these links will appear at the top when people click on the latest page? Let me know.

 

I like that idea. It'll take advantage of the slight bug in the system (unless it's deliberate).

Let's hear a bit of input from other thread-goers, and then make a decision.

 

Sounds good. While we're at it, if anyone has links to what they would consider "key" items of this debate, or rather, those issues that they feel we've discussed in-depth, perhaps they should post them now so that we can have a comprehensive and useful list of links for people who may be new to the debate.

 

A few links, to start with:

Homosexuality: What's up with that? (V.2)

 

A few links, to start with:

Racism Wrong, Homophobia Acceptable? (Original Thread)

Homosexuality: What's up with that? (V.2)

Bible verses in both OT and NT, with responses

That's just a start. Anyone else have some to add?

 

Verses in Paul's letters

 

Sounds like a good idea to me. There are many, many, many pages with valid debate on them, and i am far too lazy to search through them to recommend stuff for the new thread.

And i hate Will and Grace.

 

A short question to those who bring up those bible-arguments ... how can you be Star Wars fans, being fascinated by a patchwork-religion which is MUCH more influenced by Budhism and other Eastern philosophies than by Christianity, while the Bible (which you take seriously when judging about homosexuality) says that only Jews/Christian have the right religion and there MUST NOT be any other gods ?

 

Some more useful links:

Leviticus, Judges, Genesis, Romans, and translation problems
Ruth, and more Leviticus fun
Jonathan and David