Homosexuals are gay. (Official homosexuality discussion thread)

For example, I find mayonnaise disgusting.

Check out NoMayo.com

 

Pennsylvania was the 28th state and this law was passed in 2002.

 

Letalis, you have to provide proof of some kind if you expect people to accept your claims. What law? All we have are your vague claims.

Please provide links or citations if you want people to accept your word on the matter.

Kimball Kinnison

 

Oh yeah? Well I live in PA and I've never heard that. Got a cite? Like say, a copy of the law that says this?

I mean, for crying out loud, Fred Phelps came here to Pittsburgh to protest at the funeral of-get this!-Fred Rogers. Yes, that's right, Mister Freaking Rogers.

(The man's a nutjob, of course, NO ONE takes him seriously).

But the point is, there's no way there's a law like that. Nor would it stand up to an appeal.

 

I have a news article from 2002.

http://www.cultureandfamily.org/articledisplay.asp?id=2885&department=CFI&categoryid=cfreport

Canada too

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38268

"Canada's governor general, the representative of Queen Elizabeth II, signed into law yesterday a controversial measure opposed by religious believers and free-speech advocates who say it will criminalize public expression against homosexual behavior. "

 

A little digging on this topic turned up the alternative viewpoint on HB 1439:

HB 1439 in Pennsylvania

An Excerpt:
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania-- The Pennsylvania Legislature passed a bill last Tuesday in the House of Representatives and, by a vote of 118 to 79, extended the state's hate crime laws to include actual or perceived sexual orientation, gender, gender identity, mental and physical disability, and ancestry.

With the governor's signature, Pennsylvania will become the 28th state with a hate crimes law including sexual orientation. It will also become the fifth state, as well as the District of Columbia, to include gender identity in its hate crimes statute.

"The Pennsylvania Legislature has sent a strong message to gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender Pennsylvanians that bias crime will not be tolerated," said Seth Kilbourn, national field director for the Human Rights Campaign. "The passage of this bill is an example of what a strong coalition with a coordinated strategy and an effective grassroots network can accomplish."
...
Recently released statistics from the FBI show that hate incidents based on sexual orientation have increased from 1,299 incidents in 2000 to 1,393 in 2001 -- a 7.2 percent increase. Reported hate crimes based on sexual orientation have more than tripled since the FBI began keeping statistics in 1991.


So, this law has nothing to do with freedom of speech and everything to do with hate crimes. Also, as noted above in the section I added bold to myself, this is only the 5th state (including DC) to include gender roles as part of their hate crime laws.

 

Ok, based on that article, I hunted down the text of the actual law, here.

You are clearly overstating the case. It would take an interpretation of the law that is extremely broad and a severe neglect for quite a bit of case law regarding the First Amendment in order for it to be applies to any part of a religious ceremony, including sermons.

Kimball Kinnison

 

Race, color, religion, natalional origin, ancestry, mental or physical disability, sexual, gender, and gender identity - none of those are against christianity. Homosexuality is and now you can't say so without getting dragged off to court.

 

No--you can't discriminate against homosexuals without being dragged off to court.

Oh, wait a minute--you can. They aren't allowed to get married.

 

Race, color, religion, natalional origin, ancestry, mental or physical disability, sexual, gender, and gender identity - none of those are against christianity. Homosexuality is and now you can't say so without getting dragged off to court.

Let's take a look at what the actual text of the legislation says:

A person commits the offense of ethnic intimidation if, with malicious intention toward the actual or perceived race, color, religion [or], national origin, ancestry, mental or physical disability, sexual orientation, gender or gender identity of another individual or group of individuals, he commits an offense under any other provision of this article or under chapter 33 (relating to arson, criminal mischief and other property destruction) exclusive of section 3307 (relating to institutional vandalism) or under section 3503 (relating to criminal trespass) or under section 5504 (relating to harassment by communication or address) with respect to such individual or his or her property or with respect to one or more members of such group or to their property.

Look at the parts that I bolded. Of those, only Section 5504 could possibly come close to what you are describing. However, let's actually look at the definition of that section:

A person commits the crime of harassment by communication or address when, with intent to harass, annoy or alarm another, the person:

1. communicates to or about such other person any lewd, lascivious, threatening or abscene words, language, drawings or caricatures; or
2. communicates repeatedly in an anonymous manner;
3. communicates repeatedly at extremely inconvenient hours; or
4. communicates repeatedly in a manner not covered by paragraph (2) or (3).

In other words, this statue couldn't apply unless the preacher in question were specifically targeting an individual on a repeated basis. That's not what you were describing by a long shot.

Kimball Kinnison

 

Let's look at what is said.

"We would strongly encourage pastors, churches and church leadership across Pennsylvania to obtain some very good liability insurance and contact an attorney if the pastor intends to continue faithfully preaching the Word," Urban Family Council Team Member Bill Devlin said in a press release.

"This legislation basically sets up for a lawsuit against any minister or religious leader ? who publicly states that certain sexual behavior is immoral or improper. That is a direct violation of the state Constitution."

There ya go. No matter how you look at it you will still go to court for preaching that "certain sexual behavior is immoral or improper."

I was also wondering if the Quran is considered hate literature?

 

Let's look at what is said.

"We would strongly encourage pastors, churches and church leadership across Pennsylvania to obtain some very good liability insurance and contact an attorney if the pastor intends to continue faithfully preaching the Word," Urban Family Council Team Member Bill Devlin said in a press release.

"This legislation basically sets up for a lawsuit against any minister or religious leader ? who publicly states that certain sexual behavior is immoral or improper. That is a direct violation of the state Constitution."

That's funny. I didn't see any of that in the law itself. Would you care to quote for me what parts of the law actually say that?

The law is very specific about what it relates to. THe only speech relating to it is covered by section 5504, which covers repeaded, targeted harrassment of an individual (not a group of individuals).

Quotes from activist organizations don't change what is in the law itself. The law does not support the interpretation that you are advancing.

Kimball Kinnison

EDIT: I also wouldn't trust an article about a law that can't even point out the right bill. House Bill 1439 listed in the article you gave was on Waste Removal. House Bill 1493 is the one that you were referring to.

 

Kimball. You rock.

 

Homosexuality is and now you can't say so without getting dragged off to court.

There are plenty of Christian churches out there that disagree with you, and plenty of Biblican scholars who don't agree with that interpretation.

And a religion that allows slavery (which early Judaism did) is hardly on the moral high ground when presuming to order its people which gender they can love.

I wouldn't call the Quran hate literature, necessarily. It is, however, like the Bible, solely a work of man's creation.

 

King James Version

Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

English Standard Version

Rom 1:26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature;
Rom 1:27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.


1Co 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,
1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.


I'd say that it's pretty clear in both versions.

 

All right havent been here in a while... now let's forget about religion for a second... because in creation of laws or even in the government there should be a separation of church and state ( it is sadly not that case of the current presidency) If you are against homosexuality and the fact that equal rights might be accorded to them... You should give me an answer that doesnt involve any religious or bible quote. You should give me another answer than: EWWWWW two guys ! Thats disgusting!!!!! Prove to me that if I marry my boyfriend, it will diminish the sanctity of any heterosexual marriage! Prove to me that my lifestyle is bad but dont use religion or the ick factor as an argument. Oh and i might add... Prove to me that Dubbya's position on the subject isnt tainted by his deep love for God and I'll believe that theres a separation of Church and State! And all that, happening in a country that is fighting overseas for this so called democracy! This is just really ironic... isn't it? I'm so happy to be canadian.

 

Anything that goes against God goes against me. I don't care about separation of church and state. My morals are routed in my religion.


12 For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them 16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.



Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. Rom 1:26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; Rom 1:27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. Rom 1:32 Though they know God's decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.


Here, God clearly warns all those who simply "tolerate" or "approve of " these things with their great "open-mindedness" will be held just as accountable as those who actually do them. This applies to churches and pastors/ministers/priests/rabbis as well. If you are in a church or have a church leader who "approves of" and supports this activity, you might be interested in studying the prophecies on "corruption of churches."

I'm sorry this isn't the answer you were looking for.

 

Ironic isnt it to have hatemongering come from a so called Christian and one who at that has 666, the mark of the beast in his name.

How about letting God judge the souls of men for their actions and not promote yourself to his place and judge men for him. By doing this you are trying to overthrow God and then claim to have a deep undying love for him. Funny how that works isnt it? May he who have no sin cast the first stone. Look in your heart, look at all the sins you have committed, now throw that rock I dare you. I dont think God much appreciates to keep company with hipocrites.

 

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. Rom 1:26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; Rom 1:27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. Rom 1:32 Though they know God's decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

Giving approval for a sin is just as bad as committing the sin. Did you not understand this when I first posted it?

 

In any true democracy ( if there was once a REAL democracy) there should be a separation of Church and State, doesn't matter what anyone says.( i'm just saying... now why go over Iraq and fight for democracy when it's not even established over in america for real)
Now the basis of Christianity is to love one another and make peace...right? Is that what they are doing? Letting everyone to marry but the gays . Is that what it's like to love one another? Does god really love everyone but the homosexuals? Now the bible has a good message about society and how we should accept each other... Now it's the people who interpret it that are to blame. Let the one who hasn't sinned throw the 1rst stone or something like that... Does anyone rememebr about that one? But you see 50 years ago the christian church didnt let a black man marry a white woman ( or the other way around) Now it is accepted, not only accepted it is wrong to say something racist. But it is okay to say horrible stuff about the homosexuals and prevent them to marry one another. Isn't it weird that Jennifer Lopez can marry whoever she wants and divorce as much as she wants... but two people who are genuinely in love can't because they are of the same sex? For the defence of marriage leage or whatever they call themselves... it's the divorce rate that disrupts the sanctity of marriage not the fact that two men can marry. Now what i want is people to tell me why gay people are not worthy of getting the same advantages of heterosexual couples without using religion and the ick factor as arguments. Just know that it will happen maybe this year, maybe next year, or maybe even in 10 years but gay people will be accepted and have the same rights as anyone else. Believe me.

 

Damien666 you just made me think of a saying by Ghandi. I like your Christ, but I dont like your Christians, your Christians are nothing like your Christ. Think about it.


Now I am rather tired of this religious angel. You work it like a one way street. You act like you are above and beyond sin. Do you not recall "Hate the sin, love the sinner?" Your words are filled with hate, and you obviously cant differ between the sin and the sinner. That is why I left the church, I tired of seeing people who still had sin in their lives outcast by the church as if the other members of the church had no sin. Forgive me for I am paraphrasing, doesnt the Bible say something along the lines of "Far be it for a follower of Gods to drive another off, it will be better for him not to be born at all" I remember something along those lines and have read in a couple of the Gospel books.

Anyway I wish not to debate this when I know before hand it will fall on deaf ears and on blind eyes. You have your mind made up, if Jesus Christ himself came down and told you to love everyone including the homosexuals (clearly you do not) you would cruxify him. Hence another perfect example why I left the Church.

 

Jedi Merkurian-long time no see! Bravo!

Letalis, I LIVE in PA. Trust me, if it was as you said, I would have HEARD about it. And I haven't.

Damian666, that may be how YOU act, but US law is NOT based on the Bible, nor should it be. It is supposed to be neutral, so that people of ALL religions are protected.

We are NOT a theocracy!

 

*claps* JM, its about time someone said something along those lines. you familiar with the elephant metaphor?

Put simply, (and be aware that any answer is subject to debate) why do YOU think that God thinks that homosexuality is wrong?

Personally as a pagan, i don't beleive that homoxesuality is wrong. people just are that way lkike we have different races on earth it is the same for sexuality.

about a hundred or more years ago people were saying that according to the bible (the sons of Ham passage in Genesis) the white race was suprior because they are "gods chosen people".

i looked at this a few weeks ago in history, people sure had their wires crossed back then.

(BTW, i DO NOT intend to start a racial debate, it is simply an example)

while the vast majority regard this today as complete and utter BS (myself included)

could we not look at this in the same light? differences are what makes life interesting. wouldn't it be a very boring world if we were all the same?

 

"Sooo...what if, after careful deliberation and praying for guidance through the Holy Spirit, you come to a completely different conclusion than someone else?"

If someone comes to a different conclusion than what the bible says I would question who was talking to that person.

"See, this is the reason that for my mind to be settled on a topic, it has to transcend the dictates of dogma, religious or otherwise. "Because I say that God says it's wrong" is not enough. Nor is because "what these who guys wrote a book that says 'God says it's wrong'" is enough reason. The Apostles were mortal. Christ had to constantly correct their behavior, and bereft of His direct input, they suddenly became all-knowing? I am mortal. You are mortal. Any attempt to interpret the will of the Almighty is by definition flawed. Therefore, I must treat with skepticism anyone who professes to speak on behalf of the Almighty, or to interpret His will or motives, and that includes myself."

2 Timothy 3:16 - All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

"At the risk of repeating myself, it is my belief that some people just are gay. They chose to be gay just like heterosexuals chose to be straight, which is to say they didn't. Why would God want someone to be anything other than what He made them to be?"

Because it is detestable to the LORD.

Jedi Xen - can you please tell me how my words are "filled with hate?" Some people seem to think I hate homosexuals. Can someone please tell me if I have once said this? I have provided many quotes from the bible that justifies my hatred for homosexuality. I have never once targeted a homosexual and accused him of sinning and going against the word of God. I have never made fun of, insulted, or done anything to make a homosexual feel unwelcome. And for the record I have never been to church.

"Put simply, (and be aware that any answer is subject to debate) why do YOU think that God thinks that homosexuality is wrong?"

I suppose it's because God created men and women to be together.