main
side
curve
  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST Horn: Script expected in January

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Diggs, Dec 13, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007

    Yes, that is one of the theories anyway.
     
    dolphin and Darkslayer like this.
  2. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer #1 Sabine Wren Fan star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2013
    Was this directed at me? :confused:
     
  3. Dra---

    Dra--- Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Nope. Darth_Pevra and her fixation on imagining anything that bolsters the narrative of a "troubled production." The intense interest in negativity by some fans is truly bewildering to me.
     
  4. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    I said it was pure speculation, nothing more. I'm sure everyone here has theories of what was going on. What's so bad about sharing it?

    Am I supposed to take this seriously?

    We know there was a rewrite going on - and Arndt was not involved. That alone is telling volumes. But you can call it fantasy if you wish. I don't have any 100% proof that he was fired.

    We'll probably never know what was really going on in this production.

    Why is your optimism better than my cynicism? Infighting is to be expected in this business and especially if the stakes are high.
     
    Lurknomore likes this.
  5. SimitarLikeTusk

    SimitarLikeTusk Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2014
    Well the thing is you guys are mistaking conflict of ideas for infighting. Ardnt was never a producer, nor would it really make sense for him to be upset if they don't use his script. Hes not a 5 year old, hes a hired professional.
    It sounded like he was working mostly freelance, without collaborating with JJ, Kasdan or anyone else. Then those people saw his script and decided on changing a few things.
     
  6. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2014
    While I don't think there is any real trouble within the production, I do believe Ardnt was replaced because a decision was made to take things in a different direction. I also don't believe he's working on VII. I think it was the case they would have announced at the time to squash just this sort if speculation.
     
    dolphin, Lurknomore and Dra--- like this.
  7. Dra---

    Dra--- Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Do I really need to answer that? :p

    I honestly don't mind you speculating however you want, but when you leap from that and tell us with unflinching belief that JJ is powermongering Kasdan and such, it enters a fantasyland that you seem to demand others must enter. The move from speculation to belief is what bothers me, especially when it is offered so authoritatively, and sometimes without context, which can seem misleading to others joining in the thread. I hate misinformation, and this sort of posting comes pretty close to it. IMO. :)

    Guess what? The latest rumor was the the SP was great. What do you think of that?

    Evidence of a troubled production?
     
    Satipo likes this.
  8. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    "Unflinching belief"? I guess "pure speculation" and/or "we only have guesses" wasn't enough disclaimers for you? Where the hell did you read "unflinching belief" here? Just because I have a forceful style doesn't mean my positions are totally extreme.

    "Powermongering"? It's not powermongering if you show you are the boss sometimes, it is necessity. Especially if you step in the very big shoes of one George Lucas. I don't mind if my own boss shows off his authority sometimes. It's all part of the game. If I were Abrams, I would do the same thing. Quite possibly I would be even more of an ass. I don't know why you think that is powermongering.

    Sometimes out of troubled productions a great result arises. This is something I saw happen myself when I was the one to produce the something.

    So I think whatever issues they had they probably overcome for now. But there are probably still a couple problems they'll have too master in the future.
     
  9. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Let's be careful here to not go too far into analyzing or discussing other posters on a personal level... thanks. [face_peace]
     
  10. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2014
    I suspect the issues facing the crew at the moment are getting JJ to pin down certain decisions, which could be interpreted as indecision or making sure the choice is absolutely nailed depending on your POV. Either way, I don't think we as fans need to worry much. The decisions will get made and we'll still get our movie. It just might be a little more stress for those at the coal face. But then I imagine it's a hell of a coal face to be at.
     
    Darkslayer and Pro Scoundrel like this.
  11. ezekiel22x

    ezekiel22x Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2002
    I think Abrams and Arndt physically rumbled like a pair of modern day, overly-privileged greaser wannabes. And Lucas engineered the whole thing as research for his long-awaited finale to the American Graffiti trilogy.
     
  12. Mystery Roach

    Mystery Roach Chosen One star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2004
    I actually wouldn't be a bit surprised if it turned out that Pevra's theory is pretty close to the mark. I don't think it necessarily spells trouble, but my gut has been uneasy about Abrams as a collaborator all along, even before those rumors surfaced.
     
    Dra--- and Darth_Pevra like this.
  13. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel Modercreeper Is Always Watching star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Anybody think some of the script changes may have been due to the Big 3, and what they might have wanted?
     
    FRAGWAGON likes this.
  14. Bob Octa

    Bob Octa Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    May 6, 2013
    Can I mention how Darth_Pevra is a cruel mistress? And that I like it?
     
    Dra---, EHT and Darth_Pevra like this.
  15. Lurknomore

    Lurknomore Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 18, 2014


    I did hear a rumor that Abrams basically made them choose between him and Arndt. If Arndt winds up being given zero credit, I'll be inclined to believe this version of events.
     
    Satipo likes this.
  16. Dra---

    Dra--- Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Sorry about that. Darth_Pevra, apologies that I took the argument to a personal level. It's difficult though when it comes down to understanding why one person seems to want to find positives and another person negatives ... slippery slope. :) My bad.

    Anyway, one of my main problems with the "troubled production" narrative is that it's normal practice for a screenplay to change hands during a production; from all I've heard, it's less normal for a SP not to be revised by others. That "trouble" is just part of the business -- a Hollywood norm. Another problem with that narrative is it doesn't tell us much about how the movie will turn out. As you point out, screenplays and movies turn out just fine even if the production was troubled.

    But beyond a screenplay revision, which is normal in Hollywood, what else is troubled in this production? And if there is trouble, what does it have to do with the final product?

    And let's not forget the rumor that Arndt is working on E8. If true, that doesn't square very well with the idea that him and JJ had trouble. At least, not enough trouble to stop working together again.
     
    EHT, Satipo, Fastback and 2 others like this.
  17. dolphin

    dolphin Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 1999
    1. George Lucas develops an overall storyline; pitches it to Iger

    2. Michael Arndt writes a 40-50 page treatment based on GL's ideas

    3. Arndt's treatment likely played a role in Disney's decision to buy LF. Arndt writes E7 draft.

    4. Abrams and Kasdan come onboard. Kasdan ostensibly to write one of the spinoffs. JJA to direct.

    5. Abrams and Kasdan agree to take things in a different direction; reportedly giving the original big 3 more emphasis

    *I wonder if Abrams/Kasdan's new direction is much different than GL's. I wonder how GL might take it if that's true.


    Dra---

    I agree! It would be unheard of and strange for a large production NOT to have multiple hands on the script. Most scripts go through rewrites, including a pass through by the Director, especially one with heft and writing experience. Perhaps that was the reason for TPM and AOTC. Not enough pairs of eyes got to see it.
     
    Satipo and Dra--- like this.
  18. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of Future Films star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    Kasdan came on long before Abrams actually. From GL's words it seems like he was hired almost the same time Arndt was to help out on the script. That's one reason why I don't buy the rumors that they completely discarded the story they were all working on.
     
    Pro Scoundrel and Dra--- like this.
  19. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    Dra---

    "Apology accepted, Captain Needa."

    No problem, Dra---. Sometimes we go a little overboard, especially me. I'm just too damn hotheaded even if I fake cold rationality well. Erm.

    Now onto your points.

    There's two important statements here that have a huge influence on my opinion.

    By hollywoodreporter (one of the most trustworthy sources):

    Arndt is said to have focused on the offspring of Luke Skywalker (Mark Hamill), Han Solo (Harrison Ford) and Princess Leia (Carrie Fisher), with the original trilogy heroes taking on supporting roles. Abrams, however, wanted Episode VII to focus on the classic trio of characters, so audiences could have one more chance to enjoy them before a fitting send-off. The new characters, the offspring, will now be in supporting roles, according to these sources, and take center stage in Episode VIII and IX. Some characters have disappeared from the Arndt script and new ones are being drafted.

    JJ Abrams himself:

    It became clear that given the timeframe, and given the process, and the way the thing was going that working with Larry in this way was going to get us where we need to be and when we needed to be

    Pretty much saying that the other way wasn't getting them where and when they needed to be.

    Both of these statements kinda cemented my opinion that there was some kind of fight between Arndt and Abrams. Because how can it be that a screenwriter writes a story that has the focus on the wrong characters? Normally a director would oversee the whole writing process and make sure it goes according to his desires. Something is off here. Even I who suck at murder mysteries can see that.


    Just a few days ago it was said by two different sources that there were auditions for a lead role. But they already want to shoot in May. When will the new lead have time to train swordfighting and such?
    We could be in for another delay.
     
    Dra--- likes this.
  20. Darth_Bertie

    Darth_Bertie Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 30, 2014
    I understand some people have concerns about the departure of Arndt. I see one of the main troubles is some of you are afraid Abrams/Kasdan story is not the one Lucas would have penned. What makes you think Licas would not have changed that view pver the course of the production? What makes you think their view is not better than Lucas?

    If we are to discuss rumors then what I have read about Arndt story I think it was far from being what I wanted. I've read about Solo twins, about one falling into the dark side. I've read about Luke dying at the start of the film, and about the Solos taking the major focus.

    Maybe all the rumors are bogus, but if Abrams/Kasdan wanted to gove Luke more importance, and do the same with Leia and Han, and wanted to shift the focus of the story to the Skywalkers as somo rumors suggested, then I understand the were backed by KK, Iger or Lucas.
     
    Trebor Sabreon likes this.
  21. Fastback

    Fastback Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 12, 2014
    I agree that if JJ and Kasdan decided not to go with Arndt's script that did not have the big 3 as the main focus for VII, then it needed to be changed. I want the big 3 to be the main focus while the supporting cast their kids or not who will take over later will have time to transition into the main role in VIII or IX.
     
  22. Dra---

    Dra--- Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2012
    This could simply be an answer to why he decided to work with Kasdan and not just revise the SP himself.

    "The way the thing was going" might not refer to fighting between JJ and Arndt, if that's what you're suggesting, but the issues he brought up right before -- "the timeframe," the "process." They were obviously on a limited timeframe, and "process" might refer to the collaborative process going on that was slowing things down. This whole quote could easily refer to the necessity of teaming with Kasdan, and nothing at all about Arndt, who had already moved on.

    But we have no reason to think "the other way" was JJ and Arndt having trouble working together. It's not exactly clear from this quote what the other way was, but it could simply have been JJ trying to revise the SP on his own, with feedback from KK and GL.
     
    Darth Chiznuk likes this.
  23. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    But Arndt had more than a full year, more like one and a half, to finish that damn script. He already started on it before the Disney deal and was officially kicked from the project in November 2013!

    Just how long does it take to write 40-50 pages?

    I know that scriptwriting is it's own challenge but I write ten times that amount in the same time.

    It seems also weird that a collaborative process would result in a focus on the wrong characters and the need for a script rewrite.

    You know what? I think I like that "happy end Arndt" was let go and I think I will enjoy Abrams' story more. But it is still not a good sign if the scriptwriter is kicked from the project and the script rewritten. It all costs valuable time, nerves.
     
  24. Dra---

    Dra--- Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Darth_Pevra

    I just don't see the process as that unusual in Hollywood. I think what you're missing is how GL's treatment can be easily interpreted in different, albeit equally valid, directions. You know how Kasdan and Brackett developed different SPs from GL's story idea in ESB? There's no drama necessary in a case like this. These are all professionals who understand how the process works. Where fans see drama, the pros see disagreement.
     
  25. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Well, it's called development Hell for a reason. It's not ideal. But it can sometimes improve the finished project, and is not an unusual situation in the slightest. In fact, it would be more unusual for the whole thing to go smoothly from beginning to end.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.