House Rules Discussion (d20 AND d6!)

Discussion in 'Games: RPG & Miniatures' started by Jedi Merkurian, Mar 17, 2006.

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  1. Koohii Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2003
    star 5
    Bump.
    Many of my house rules will be in effect for the game I'll be running here, so I thought I'd bump this up to where people can find it easily. Note the archived thread links: there are some redundancies with what is posted in this thread, but new info as well.

    I'll be summarizing the details in the rules explanations in the initial post, including the standard rules and variations I'll be using.
  2. Jedi_Matt Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 2002
    star 4
    good idea, i thought about doing exactly the same thing just last night, but i got engrossed in reading the half blood prince one more time before the saga finale and completely lost track of time
  3. Koohii Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2003
    star 5
    WEG rules list slugthrowers' damage at a paltry 2D+2 or some such.
    Reliculous!

    House Rule: the damage of the slugthrower is the same as a blaster of the same type, but physical rather than energy (thus they are much less effective vs most types of armor). A derringer would be the same as a hold-out blaster. A colt desert eagle would be 5D, same as a heavy blaster pistol. Glock, luger, 38 special, etc would be 4D, same as a blaster pistol. AK47, M16, Mac 11, Uzi, would be 5D, same as a blaster Carbine, with an option of "Spraying an area" doing 4D area effect. Shotgun would also be 4D area effect.


    Thus using slugthrowers is a little more interesting and desireable without unbalancing the game. They are still less effective against stormtroopers (Stormies get +2D benefit from their armor instead of the +1D they normally would) and a lot louder, making stealth difficult, but not impossible with a silencer.

    Now, the old flintlocks, wheel-locks, blunderbus, etc... THOSE can be 2D+2.
  4. Yuul_Shamar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2004
    star 4
    yes but i would think that the older flintlock period stuff and earlier should take a negative/penalty to hit do to the relatively inaccurate nature of the guns.
  5. Koohii Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2003
    star 5
    I'd say more of a limited range of accuracy--like 1 meter for short range, 2 for medium, 3 for long, 4 for extreme
  6. Yuul_Shamar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2004
    star 4
    so like -1D for every range increment beyond the first?
  7. Koohii Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2003
    star 5
    Either 1D or 2D--I don't remember--hardly ever comes up.

    Here's one rule we used--don't remember if it's official or not: if you knowingly study under a teacher with DSP, or knowingly start teaching Force Powers to a student before making them repent DSP, you gain 1DSP per D of learning.

    Thus, if a kindly old man knows that the streeturchin has has serious issues to resolve, but starts teaching him Control and Sense anyway, he will gain 2 DSP himself. If he just waits long enough for the child to come around and learn from better examples (and repent the DSP), there is no problem.

    Likewise, if the student finds a master at last, and ignores the fact that the master has irrational temper tantrums, lashes out, and always seems to have nasty bruises arround his eyes, the shear abuse of the dark sider will build, and the 1D of alter the student wanted to learn with carry with it 1 DSP. Likewise, if the student continues in order to up Control or Sense, another DSP will arrive for every D (starting with the first pip).
  8. Jedi_Matt Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 2002
    star 4
    Aye I think that is an official rule, or an extrapolation thereof. I think the official one is that if you teach someone who has a dsp, then you get a dsp yourself.

    Being taught by someone with dsp's i'd say is something that should be resolved by roleplaying. An evil teacher doesn't make the student evil unless he teaches the user to tap into the negative emotions that feed the dark side
  9. Blithe Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2003
    star 4
    Yeah, I think that's the way the official rule works, too, Matt; however, that's a really good house-rule, though. I'm all for roleplaying stuff like that out, but that house-rule really seems to fit right in for my group. My group is always at one extreme during sessions when it comes the balance of roll-play vs role-play. In combat, we're usually just slinging dice too much and only pulling the trigger, yet the role-playing can be pretty amazing at other times, but... then we tend to overlook some of the mechanics in the process. That is why when I GM, I get players who are reluctant to role-play emotional things out to role a die to see how their characters take to an emotional crisis of some sort. This has worked really well as a hard and fast rule for dealing with side of effects of being hit by a Dark Side attack that has been known to potentially leave a slight taint, even on its victims, or in cases of learning Force skills off of scrolls that, for instance, were written by a repentant, and relatively reformed, Sith cultists or magician that still had a some warped ways of thinking inter-laced in the material. That should fit right in for us when it comes learning by tainted masters.
  10. Blithe Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2003
    star 4
    So what set of rules do you guys normally use for the actual Force Training? There's several variations scattered around the different editions and various books:

    - 1st. ed. only requires one week of training time to learn a Force skill.

    - the 1st ed. Rules Companion says it takes ten weeks, but if you began play without any Force skills, you must find a master (anyone with at least 7D in all Force skills) and not just someone with a higher code than you (a teacher).

    - 2nd ed. requires the teacher to have at least 3D in the Force skills that will be taught, ten weeks training time, and 20 character points; characters who began without Force skills don't have to find a master.

    - TOTJ companion requires 1-3 weeks of training time, 10 character points, and a teacher with at least 3D in the Force skills that will be taught. Scrolls or holocrons can be used to learn Force skills, but with a 50% increase in character point cost, and a 100% increase in training time. Force skills can not go beyond 3D using this method, and the number of power detailed in the scrolls or holocrons is limited.

    This is the House rule I use in most settings for characters who learn Force skills after beginning the game:

    - Core Rule (1st ed. Rules companion): Those characters starting play without Force skills as a part of their template must find a master (anyone with at least 7D in all Force skills) in order to learn Force skills. Learning a Force skill requires ten weeks of intensive training, but no character points are required. The player may reduce the time by one day per character point spent.
    - Core Rule (2nd ed.): A character with no Force training must have a teacher with at least 3D in the Force skills that will be taught in order to learn Force skills. It takes ten weeks of intensive study and costs 20 character points. The player may reduce the training time by one day per character point spent.
    - House Rule conjugation: Characters who begin play without Force skills on their template can learn Force skills from a teacher with at least 3D in Force skills, with of course, the training time and 20 character points cost; however, if a character finds a master, he may learn Force skills in ten weeks time, but without the character point cost.
  11. Jedi_Matt Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 2002
    star 4
    The way I've seen it done, bearing in mind i've only played mostly on messageboards and this method only suits use on messageboards, is that it costs as many cps as you have 'd' in the skill to increase it by a pip and learn a new power, but the time was down to you. You were to roleplay the discovery and new found application of this use of the Force that you were being taught. And real-world situations would be used. Someone for instance, might get burnt by something in the engine room, and you'd be forced to learn control another's pain, and/or accelerate another's healing.

    My online d20 gm is actually also playing one of my PC's characters, and i made him do the learn by post thing for battlemind, because I actually kinda like the whole idea.
  12. Blithe Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2003
    star 4
    So, what house rules have people come up with so far for the SAGA edition? Right now, my group has pretty much decided only on these house rules:

    1. A PCs Dark Side score CANNOT be decreased by burning Force Points.

    Reason: It cheapens the seductive effect of the Dark Side and encourages its use without any consequences, since players can get the power, and avoid the cost. Also, this was at least a little more sensible in the RCRB since Force Points were worth a lot more, but now that they are like Action Points, players are not going to be inclined to think twice before burning them off.

    2. No Attacks of Opportunity.

    Reason: We're of the opinion that AoO do not make much sense, logically speaking, to begin with, especially considering that SAGA is leaning more towards the old "abstract" combat side of things. Secondly, it is my experience that they tend to slow the game down. Also -- I've never seen a time in which AoO rules and related feats were not used and abused by munchkins.

    3. PCs can earn Destiny Points by committing acts of Dramactic Heroism at the dramatically appropriate time in the Adventure.

    Reason: This was a really great Force Point rule that had been around since the old WEG stuff, all the way to the RCRB. Why a version of this for the Destiny Points was not in the SAGA edition baffles me.

    As an addendum to this rule, with props to Koohii for this one, the Dramatic moment has to be in non-character scale combat. For example, using a Destiny Point to kill a primary villain in melee combat or shoot down a whole squadron of troopers will not count; however, using a snub fighter to take down a capital ship, or a turret implacement on a squadron of fighters does count.

    Reason: This makes a lot more sense, cinematically speaking, with what we've seen in the movies. The dramatic moments are usually of an epic scale. Of course, if you take down the Emperor or redeem Darth Vader, exceptions can be made of course . . . ;)

    4. Prestige Classes are available to the PCs PURELY on the GMs discretion.

    Reason: I did not see it, though this may actually be advised in the SAGA edition Core book, but my reasoning behind this is to help players focus on the Roll-play and Role-play advantages of multi-classing into the core classes first. This is primarily because I have found that most of the time the prestige class a player wants in no way, shape, or form fits with the character they designed, role-playing wise.

    5. Force-using PCs can learn a new Force Power by accepting a Dark Side Point. The same applies to Destiny Points.

    Reason: While the Force mechanics are vastly improved over the RCRB, the Dark Side is still not a very tempting offer. The other rule is a hold-over from the DSSB, OCR d20.
  13. LightWarden Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2001
    star 4
    Well, as far as Saga Edition goes, here's some of the ones I'm using:
    -Feats are at every even level instead of every third. Though since there aren't as many non-combat options as there are in D&D, this isn't really helpful
    -Skills that are usable untrained are still class skills for everyone.
    -Some species can qualify for talents even if they aren't in that class. For example: Zeltrons and Falleen can pick up the Negotiator feats from the Jedi Consular tree, though it can only be used with the persuasion skill and when your target is within pheromone range.
    -I am considering allowing players to change feats and talents, since I know that later books turn up things you wish you had access to when you made the character.
    -The biggest change: You get a bonus talent every four levels, which you may spend on any talent you qualify for. Talents with prerequisite talents require that you have enough levels to get them normally (for example: a 4th level Scout could not get the Total Concealment feat, since it would require him to get the previous two at levels 1 and 3, and thus pick it up at level 5). Players should note that this applies to the opponents, and powergaming will just turn it into an arms race.
  14. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

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    May 25, 2000
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    Anyone have any ideas on how to make the dark side more tempting in Saga Ed.?
  15. Blithe Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2003
    star 4
    I've generally been compiling a lot of the rules from WEG and the RCRB/OCRB d20. Including some of the ones I've already mentioned, some of my ideas so far include:

    - Allow Force-users to call upon the Dark Side when they use a Force Point, and in turn, receive an extra die, without having to have the talent from the Dark Side tree.

    - Dark Side Sourcebook holdover -- earn one Destiny Point, or three Force Points by increasing one's Dark Side score by one.

    - Force Lightning, Force Slam, and Force Grip can all be used untrained. You may also want to consider Drain Energy, or Drain Life; that is, of course, if you create your own versions of those powers.

    That's mostly what I've come up with so far.

    (Really though, SAGA would be a real improvement over the RCRB, only if there were more Force Powers available, and if the Dark Side mechanics accurately relfected the SW universe. . .)
  16. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

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    May 25, 2000
    star 6
    Very nice. I'd add dark rage to the powers list, and delete Force lightning. However, my thing with Force lightning is one where official canon & I disagree. I personally think that Force lightning should only be used trained, but that's just me.
  17. Blithe Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2003
    star 4
    I absolutely agree. The EU is what has depicted Force Lightning as easy to use, and spammed all over the place. However, I'm kind of anal when it comes to roleplaying in an established universe, so if at all possible, I try to stick with the established canon, personally.
  18. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

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    I think I'll add that if a character gets a DSP by way of the Sith Lord's temptation ability, they're able to get any one of the following:

    -A free use of dark rage, Force grip, or Force slam that doesn't count against their suite of powers. Even if the character doesn't have any of them in their suite of powers. I think this simulates what happened when Tyranus and Vader used dun moch on their respective Skywalkers.

    -A free use of any talent on the Dark Side talent tree.

    As a matter of fact, I'm toying with making the talents from the Dark Side tree available for use at the cost of 1 DSP per "level" up the tree. For example, Power of the Dark Side gives 1 DSP, Swift Power would give 2, and Revenge would give 3 DSPs.

    These would simulate the "tempting" power of the dark side. For the "cost" of the dark side, you actually have to take the talents once you go dark.

  19. LightWarden Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2001
    star 4
    Anyone other than me adapt the Force Point usage to cover some of the other uses of action points? Extra attack goes against the spirit of the Saga changes, but most of the other ones are fair enough for a single round benefit that you can only call upon a limited number of times per level. I'm also wondering if it would appropriate to allow players to spend a Force point as a reaction increase one defense against a single attack/effect (before the effect is announced) in a "brace yourself" sense. Wouldn't negate a critical or anything, but would allow people to go "I really don't want to take that blast of lightning".
  20. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

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    May 25, 2000
    star 6
    Here are my Saga Ed. house rules:

    SKILLS
    Pilot: If trained in Pilot, you are considered proficient with the weapons of a ship that you?re piloting. You must still take Weapon Proficiency (heavy weapons) to be proficient with weapons aboard a ship you are not currently piloting.

    FEATS
    Double & Triple Attack: Applies to all weapons you are proficient with.

    THE FORCE
    Vital Transfer: Can be used on yourself at a -5 penalty to the skill check. It is not considered a [light side] power when doing so.

    Dark side temptation: You may add one to your Dark Side Score to do any of the following:

  21. Immediately regain one spent Force power as a reaction. You cannot regain powers with the [light side] descriptor in this way. You may then use a Force Point to modify the power normally, but must add one more to your Dark Side Score to do so.


  22. Immediately add any Force power to your power suite as a reaction. You cannot use powers with the [light side] descriptor in this way. Exceptions: You may use vital transfer in this way, but you cannot use Force lightning in this way. You may also use a Force Point to modify the power normally, but must add one more to your Dark Side Score to do so.


  23. Make use of any talent on the Dark Side talent tree. For every talent prerequisite on the talent tree, your Dark Side Score increases by one. Example: You may increase your Dark Side Score by one to gain the benefit of Power of the Dark Side; to gain the benefit of Revenge, you increase your Dark Side Score by three.


  24. A character whose Dark Side Score increases because of the Sith Lord?s temptation power (see pg. 225), may also do any of the above. Example: Darth Vader uses temptation on Luke Skywalker aboard the Death Star above Endor. Luke gives in to the dark side and makes use of the dark rage power, even though it?s not part of his power suite. He also spends a Force Point to allow him to use dark rage for the duration of the encounter. Therefore, his Dark Side Score increases by two.

    A dark character, having succumbed to the temptation of the dark side, cannot do any of the above.

    Embrace the dark side: A character whose Dark Side Score is equal to or less than their Wisdom may embrace the dark side and increase their Dark Side Score by 3, or increase the total to equal ½ their Wisdom, whichever is greater. A character whose Dark Side Score is ½ or greater than their Wisdom may increase their Dark Side Score to equal their Wisdom.

    To embrace the dark side in this way usually involves some great act of evil on the part of the character, such as striking down a Jedi Master and kneeling before the Dark Lord of the Sith and pledging to accept their teachings.

    COMBAT
    Maiming Foes (Official Optional Rule): A character may attempt to cripple an opponent instead of killing him. To do so, the character must declare his intent ahead of time and make an attack at a ?5 penalty and deals half damage on a successful attack. Should the resulting attack take his foe to 0 hit points while still overcoming his threshold (effectively killing him) the target is instead maimed in some manner, but otherwise alive (see the Severing Strike talent). This one is actually from the game designers.


  25. Koohii Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2003
    star 5
    <Bump>
    because it came up.
  26. dizfactor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 5
    Destiny

    ? Secret Destiny: We will play with the ?Secret Destiny? option.
    o No player will know whether or not his or her character has a Destiny, what that Destiny might be, or how many Destiny Points one might have
    o A character with the Visions talent may glean information about a character?s Destiny with a DC 35 Use the Force check


    ? Light and Dark Destiny: All characters with a Destiny have both a Light Side and Dark Side Destiny.
    o As an example, Luke had the Light Side Destiny "Redeem Anakin Skywalker (Redemption)," and the Dark Side Destiny "Destroy Darth Vader and take his place at the Emperor?s side (Destruction)."
    o The effects of Light and Dark Destinies vary according to the level of dark side taint (see below)

    ? Uses of Destiny Points: The use of Destiny Points is more tightly restricted than in the SECR
    o Defensive purposes: A character may use a Destiny Point to defend himself from physical harm at any time, unless the character is attempting to escape his or her Destiny or the character?s Destiny would be better served by the death of the character
    o Offensive purposes: A character may only use Destiny Points to directly deal damage to another character , vehicle, etc if defeating said person is crucial to fulfillment of one?s Destiny
    o Other purposes: Use of Destiny Points should be related to one?s Destiny, at GM?s discretion

    ? Hubris: Penalties are incurred when a character attempts to spend a Destiny Point but is unable to do so, either because the character has no remaining Destiny Points or because the act in question is not related to the character?s Destiny.
    o Character automatically fails at the action in question
    o All Force points in the character?s current Force Point pool are considered spent
    o Character is considered helpless until the start of his or her next turn

     
    Untainted Characters: 0 DSP ? less than half Wisdom score

    Calling on the Dark Side for Untainted Characters

    Any Force-Sensitive character with DSPs less than half his Wisdom score can choose to call upon the dark side at any time, by drawing on his or her anger, fear, or hatred, to achieve one of the following effects:

    ? Can accept 1 DSP to duplicate any normal use of a Force Point (except for atonement)

    ? Can accept 2 DSP and spend a Force Point, for any normal use of a Force Point except for atonement, to double the overall effect of spending the Force Point.
    o For boosts to skill and attack rolls, the character gets one bonus die in addition to the usual number, and gets to keep the two highest dice.
    o For boosts to the effect of Force powers and talents, the bonus effect is doubled.

    ? Can accept 2 DSP in exchange for gaining a single use of any non-lightside Force power one does not normally have, which must be used immediately.

    ? Please note that the DSP gain for calling on the Dark side stacks with any normal DSP gains. For example, that you don't normally have Battle Strike. You can get a single use of it, at the cost of gaining 2 DSPs. However:
    o If you use it to fight a foe in self-defense, you just get the base 2 DSPs for calling on the dark side for a power you don?t have.
    o If you use it to kill an innocent person, you get 3 DSPs (2 for getting the power you don't have, 1 for killing the innocent person).
    o If you want a single use of Force Lightning instead of Battle Strike, and use it in an otherwise-legitimate battle against a foe, you get 3 DSPs (2 for getting the power you don't have, 1 for using Force Lightning).
    o If you call upon the Dark side to get a single use of Force Lightning to kill an innocent person, you get 4 DSPs (2 for getting the power you don't have, 1 for using Force Lightning, 1 for killing the innocent person).

    Destiny for Untainted Characters

    ? Your Light Side Destiny functions basically as normal.
    ? Your Dark Side Destiny functions basically as normal, with one major exception: at any point where you would gain a benefit from having accomplished a major step on the path of your Destiny, you also gain a DSP. This is in a
  27. Jedi_Matt Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 2002
    star 4
    While perusing the lightsaber form talents, I got thinking about Vaapad again...

    Is it just me or is it less a lightsaber form and simply more of a 'mindset', in game terms, a general 'Feat' than lightsaber related ability.

    It's written in Shatterpoint and the RotS novellisation that it's a mindset that allows Mace to 'loop' the dark side back on the user. I haven't thought about it to the point of coming up with a variant ruling but I don't believe it should be a set bonus for any type of combat ever; I believe it should be limited to battles against dark siders.

    Possibly something like when a Dark Side Force power is used against someone with the Vaapad feat, they can make an opposed roll which costs them an action in the next round. If you make the roll, they move a step down the condition track. In terms of usage, something like it's only usable after the first round of combat, like one power (I believe Combat Sense) did in WEG.

    To make it reflect Sora Bulq's descent into darkness, maybe if you use it successfully you have to burn a force point/make a will save or accept a dark side point?

    Pre-req's: Juyo Mastery etc
  28. Jedi_Matt Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 2002
    star 4
    After re-reading my initial post, I got thinking about it's connection with negating the Dark Side and got thinking about Force Harmony, but that's about it as I have to go onto my laptop now as I'm going downstairs!
  29. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

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    May 25, 2000
    star 6
    Well, if Threats of the Galaxy is any indication, it looks like you can use the Skill Training feat to buy "non-classed" skills.
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