PT How a child of the original Star Wars trilogy learned to love the prequels

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by WhiskeyGold, Nov 6, 2012.

Moderators: Bazinga'd
  1. Corran1138 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2012
    star 1
    I grew up on the OT, but was still pretty young when TPM came out. I was 12. When I originally watched the prequels, I loved them. I thought that they were almost as good as the original films.

    As I became older, and began to watch a lot more films in general, I did begin to see a lot of the flaws of the PT. TPM had little to no character development, AOTC had the horrible love scenes, and ROTS, well frankly I didn't see all that much wrong with it except for a couple of bad lines. As films, they aren't great. The acting is bad, the dialogue is flat.

    However, as a Star Wars fan, I love them. Sure, they aren't great pieces of cinema, but they are integral parts of the Star Wars saga. I can't imagine a Star Wars now without the Jedi council, the rule of two, Naboo, or characters like Padme, Qui Gon, and even the Gungans. The value of the prequels isn't in their quality as isolated films, but in their place within Star Wars lore. Especially now as I have watched the Clone Wars series, I really appreciate so much of what Lucas did with I-III.
  2. Bacon164 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2005
    star 7
    I'd venture to say TPM has as much character development as any of the other films (that's not to say a whole lot). Pay attention to Portman and McGregor next time you watch.
  3. Sethian Eber Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2012
    I wouldn't call it a moment of lowered expectations because I already saw the films when they were first release so I know what to expect. I call it the ability to see past the flaws and find out that there are entertaining Star Wars films underneath. I mentioned this above, but for example the original phantom edit was praised editing TPM into a great film with more than one reviewer remarking on how there was a great Star Wars film hiding underneath the flaws. You don't need to edit them out to see it though, but I couldn't see past them in 1999, 2002, and 2005. The flaws ruined the entire films for me, the RLM reviews convinced me never to watch them again.

    My change of heart came from kids. They allowed me to acknowledge that these are Star Wars films through and through, that there are some great scenes if I look past the flaws. Emphasis on flaws because the consensus among people who don't like the prequels (including my former self) is that the OT is relatively flawless, especially in comparison. That's not at all the case. For example, the average SW OT fan considered TESB to be the best SW film. The average movie goer (and many of the critics in 1980) thought it was boring. Sacrilege, I know. I shamefully admit that when I saw it as a 3-year-old, I thought it was a boring snow movie except for the artoo and threepio scenes. I changed my mind when I was 11 and it became my fav although if I had to pick a fav today it would be the original (ANH).

    I used to hate TPM's podrace scene because you know he's going to win and because of the CG. On blu-ray with my surround setup, I was blown away by the entire scene. The lightsaber battle with Maul in pretty incredible, probably the best in the entire series. And I disagree with RLM although at the time I did agree (RLM uses a lot of rhetoric to sell their opinion on you and it works), it's not a battle between characters nobody cares about unless you really didn't care. I "cared" until RLM unconsciously persuaded me not to. I never noticed the scope and detail of all the stuff going on within the frame on tatooine. Same with naboo which I used to think was bland and boring. Reminds me of the beauty surrounding the Hagia Sophia in Istanbul. I even understood the political subplot which is probably due to an adult understanding of the status quo regarding our world's corrupt puppets. The political stuff was formerly mostly lost on me and probably most of the audience. That's just TPM, and merely my opinion of course.
    Last edited by Sethian Eber, Nov 7, 2012
  4. Mnhay27 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 1
    No one accused you of hijacking the forum. Nor did anyone call you a hateboy or refer to you in that fashion.
  5. Avnar Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2007
    star 2
    I didn't like the prequels AT ALL. And it has nothing to do with "being cool"

    Very bad acting.
    Wooden characters
    Cgi overload
    Jar Jar
    Bad Politics
    No heart
    Hayden Christiansen
    Jake Lloyd
    Gungans
    Didn't care about anyone
    Midichlorians
    Horrid lightsaber fights
    etc etc etc

    There were parts I loved -but they were few and far between. I wanted to LOVE these films, I really did. Now I just pretend they don't exist...

    Apologies to those who made them -I'm sure you put your heart and soul into it. :cool:
    KilroyMcFadden and Yunners like this.
  6. WhiskeyGold Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2001
    star 4
    Ep II and III got high ranks on rotten Tomatoes. And that sites pretty good at ratings.
  7. WhiskeyGold Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2001
    star 4
    How was Hayden bad as actor. He isn't the greatest but he is on par with Hamill
  8. Corran1138 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2012
    star 1
    Am I the only person who actually likes the political aspects of the PT? (and TCW as well)
  9. WIERD_GREEN_MAN Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2010
    star 4
    OT has heart, but it also didn't have the greatest acting. (I don't think the original Star Wars was intended as great art.) The lightsaber fights of the PT are WAAAAAAY better than the slow-motion stuff in the OT. And about CGI, I agree that it was excessive, but they DID use POTATOES for asteroids in the OT, so it's not like the OT is an unparalled special-effects masterpiece.
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  10. WhiskeyGold Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2001
    star 4
    I loved it and I don't see how older fans didnt know it would be about polities.
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  11. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Sometimes asteroids are made of potato. It's proven science!
  12. Mnhay27 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 1
    That's interesting, I'm a big fan of Kevin Smith and I've not actually heard his opinions on TPM. Where did you get that quote from? I'd like to read more.
  13. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    Here http://www.viewaskew.com/press/menace.html
    His AOTC and ROTS reviews are somewhere in the archives as well.
  14. Mnhay27 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 1
    Thank you for that. I'd heard that he didn't like TPM but turns out that wasn't true at all. Which is cool.
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  15. Sethian Eber Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2012
    From Kevin Smith's review:

    "I think the key is to go in with low expectations. I did, and I really dug it. Dug it more with distance. I'd see it again."

    Most OT fans probably did the exact opposite. I know I did and I was let down because of it. Since Smith is a notorious comic book geek and associated with the geek culture in general, his prediction on being fashionable to bash the film is due to his experience within that culture. SW, at least the OT, is a part of that culture along with comic con, Joss Whedon, JJ Abrams, Walking Dead, etc. Things like that. I read somebody compare prequel hating to the fan culture with these examples and was going to quote it but I can't find it. They said it better than me. They wrote how this fan culture are fanatics (fan is short for fanatic) and portray a democratic fan base while maintaining a fascist group think attitude (aka you're either with us or against us).

    These fans don't represent the majority of the people who watched these films. They are even a minority compared to the whole. But they are a very, very vocal minority who can be very loud on the internet and speak for the majority as a whole. This is because of the fascist group think consensus versus individual opinions of others. The fan/geek culture is powerful and influential. It didn't kill Star Wars and GL himself is surprisingly immune to them. Having said that, I have a feeling the Disney-produced sequels will try and appease them. Hopefully not by catering to them specifically.
    obi-rob-kenobi4 likes this.
  16. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    7, 10 and 13 years after the fact, I still fail to see how a Star Wars fan can honestly think that these are bad movies.
    I remember thinking, when I first saw AOTC: "This time, the TPM bashers are bound to be satisfied. This is a fan fest!" Little did I know that it would only get uglier...
    It doesn't matter how much they cater to the fans - They will still bash anything that's new. The reason? It's not the original.





    "I am a Star Wars fan, like my father before me"
    /LM
  17. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    It's one of my favorite aspects of the PT. The Plagueis novel then added something I had already suspected, a confirmation that Plagueis and Palpatine used Palpatine's political skills to infiltrate and then take over the government of the Republic. IOW, "I will make it legal"...literally.
  18. Corran1138 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2012
    star 1
    Plagueis improved the prequels immensely for me, especially the nature of Palpatine's political maneuvering.
  19. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
    Pfft, some of us old schoolers liked the PT to begin with, despite being a bit let down initially & holding it lower in our esteem than the OT.

    That hasn't changed for me, the only re-evaluation I've ever really done (quite early on) is that although I found I enjoyed my first couple of viewings of AOTC more than those of TPM, I now rate AOTC as the worse film by a considerable margin. Jar-Jar aside, TPM holds up pretty well as an entry in the SW Saga, while AOTC's flaws seem to get worse by the year (there are some fantastic moments in it, though, some highlighted by discovering more about the 1970s vision of Darth Vader's backstory).

    As far as ROTS is concerned, it delivered just what I'd been waiting decades to see. There's really not much in it when it comes to ROTS vs ROTJ.

    All of the hate talk regarding the PT just got on my nerves, despite what I felt was lacking in the first two films, so I simply carried on as a SW fan, then thoroughly enjoyed ROTS - even more so, as my expectations had been lowered a bit, but seven years on I still think it was terrific.
    Hell, I'm a big fan of TCW, as well.

    Not all of us OT purists are PT haters, don't forget that, particularly when an aspect of the PT is perhaps being analysed or held up to serious criticism.

    As far as the Sequel Trilogy is concerned, I'll be approaching it somewhat skeptically, but that's not an "Old Star Wars vs New Star Wars" attitude based on PT hate, it's more to do with my own interest in the Episodes VII-IX that were envisioned in the 1970s/80s. We're going to be seeing something almost 100% new, and I think it's fair enough for all SW fans, old and new, to hold the heirs to the Empire to a set of standards.
    Last edited by Darth_Nub, Nov 8, 2012
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  20. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4
    I might as well confess. I didn't like ANH when it first came out in 1977. It took me at least a decade or so to finally appreciate it, let alone like it. I thought that TESB was better, but I was put off by the ending. I finally embraced SW with the release of ROTJ. I thought the 1983 movie was the best of the bunch. Mind you, my feelings have changed over the years and now, ROTJ is my least favorite SW film.

    As the Prequel movies, I had no idea at how they would turn out. I didn't bother to read much on it. So when I saw TPM, I not only enjoyed it very much, but was impressed at the different style of story in comparison to the first trilogy. I loved both AOTC and ROTS upon their first releases, so enough said. I think that if the OT had first been released when I was an adult, I would have embraced them a lot easier than I did. Since the PT was embraced when I was an adult, I had no trouble enjoying them.
  21. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I was only a casual fan prior to ROTJ, and if ROTJ had turned out differently, i.e. the way Gary Kurtz envisioned it (dead Han and unredeemed Vader), I doubt I would still be a Star Wars fan.
  22. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    Dead Han I'd be ok with (he was kind of useless in ROTJ), but unredeemed Vader? It makes the whole story of the OT pointless.
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  23. obi-rob-kenobi4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2007
    star 4
    Agreed 100%
    Last edited by obi-rob-kenobi4, Nov 12, 2012
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  24. Jarren_Lee-Saber Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2008
    star 4
    Likewise!
    obi-rob-kenobi4 likes this.
  25. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    It sure is... [face_laugh]
Moderators: Bazinga'd