"How can later novel force users sense force presence in non trained & 2 stronger force users can't?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by wawa00s, Feb 23, 2010.

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  1. wawa00s Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 4, 2010
    star 1
    Dude this is like the first time you've agreed with me on a topic..WOW..either I'm getting better or your softing up a lil' LOL LOL..

    But I agree 110% the whole force sensing thing is all over the board and then some...It seems that in late novels they push the whole sensing thing more.and the hiding your presence thing too...

    It did seem funny now that you brought it up that Vader couldn't tell where Luke was but he could probe his mind....
    And someone said maybe it had to do with people who use the force can be sensed...That ain't it because every force sensitive I read about even the one who didn't "know" where their "Gifts" came from knew they had them and used them often..Some where luck at cards..others managed to get clear of scraps that would take out "normal people"..the list goes on and on...There are so many examples of a force presence from people that didnt' know they had the force...And Leia said something about always having know about Luke being her brother..She called it a feeling that ahe had....I call it the FORCE...LOL

    It has been one of the more inconsistant things in our universe "sensing the force signature or whatever...
  2. marmkid Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2001
    star 4
    I think for Luke in JAT when he could sense the force in others, maybe it had to do with him actively searching for it. Maybe that is why he could sense it in someone who wasnt using the force

    Vader wouldnt really have much reason to actively search for someone using the force by the time ANH comes around, so he just misses when someone has the ability to use the force but isnt (like Leia).
  3. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    Technically speaking, you are the one agreeing with me.
    So that makes writing this even more fun.

    :p
  4. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Not really...

    Are you kidding? Every time Vader comes into contact with someone that's around the age his dead child would have been if it had lived, he's supposed to assume the person is in fact his actually-not-dead child?
  5. Rew Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 22, 2008
    star 4
    Just like people bear physical resemblances to those whom they're closely related to, I would imagine that what they feel like in the Force would be equally similar. It's never really spelled out that way exactly, but that's my logical inference.

    And as for the scene you're describing in RotS, that has more to do with mental states and foci rather than Force signatures. (I don't believe the term "Force signature" shows up in that passage?)

    Like I said earlier in this thread, even if you don't think Padme and Leia look alike (I do), then there would at least be similarity in what they feel like in the Force. (Also, see above in this post for elaboration on my take on Force signature.)

    When he comes into contact with someone the age of his dead child who looks like his dead wife and probably whiffs of the Force of that same dead wife...then yes, I would hope Vader would start putting two and two together.

    Unless he's so badly and thoroughly repressed all conscious memory of Padme, which is the only explanation I can think of offering for that scene.
  6. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    Here is the relevant passage from the Death Star novel, which shows the scene aboard the Tantive from Vader's point of view.

    Vader smiled under his helmet as a file of stormtroopers arrived with Leia Organa in tow. It was reported that she had shot a trooper before they stunned her. It was hard to think of her showing such bravery--she was so young, so beautiful, dressed in that simple white gown. She reminded him very much of...
    No. He would not allow that thought.
    --------
    After she was hustled off, Vader stood motionless, quelling his rage. Anger could be useful, but only when it was an anger you brought forth on your own, shaped to your ends. Not when it was provoked by someone else.
    He was somewhat surprised by the intensity of his response. There was something about her he could not quite put a finger on, something unusual. It troubled him. Organa's mind was not weak; this he could tell even after a cursory attempt to probe it. And there was something oddly familiar about her, something just outside his grasp...
    He mentally shrugged it off. It was not important.



    And here's the scene from Shadows of the Empire when Luke communicates to Leia through the Force and Vader picks up on it:

    In his chamber, Darth Vader felt the ripple in the Force. It was elusive, but he recognized it this time.
    Luke.
    He was here, on Imperial Center.
    The knowledge sent a chill through his body.
    Vader reached out, tried to touch his son: Luke...
    He frowned. The way was...blocked. It was not only as if Luke's power had increased; it also seemed to be in two separate places.
    Impossible. He was interpreting the energies wrong. There could be no other as strong as Luke in the Force; the Jedi were all dead. The Emperor was gone, light years away.
    What could be causing that echo effect? Surely that's all it was,, an echo, a reverberation in the Force.



    So even though Vader encountered Leia's Force-sensitivity on a couple of occasions, he didn't recognize it for what it was and dismissed it as his own failure to sense the Force correctly.
  7. Rew Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 22, 2008
    star 4
    Thanks, Timmo. Yeah, I really liked that scene from Death Star (and Vader's characterization overall in that otherwise lackluster book, haha). I could realistically buy that Padme's passing was so traumatic for Vader that he'd repressed it but still noticed a disturbance in the Force around Leia that caused his temper to stir irrationally. He even consciously repressed Padme, telling himself he wasn't going to go there again. Good job to the authors (and good find to you).

    And SotE--now I had never noticed that before. I really like that! =D= Thanks for showing that too. It deepens the dynamic/tension with Vader and his twins even more in ways that I hadn't considered yet.
  8. Thrawn McEwok Co-Author: Essential Guide to Warfare

    VIP
    Member Since:
    May 9, 2000
    star 6
    I think the explanation is that Luke is sensitive to others around him, whereas Vader is normally very willful and selfabsorbed, though he can sense others more clearly... if he thinks of them as prey (think about this in ANH, where he senses first Obi-Wan and then Luke, when he's in "hunting" mode)...

    A lot of the narrative of the original trilogy is about the reassertion of Vader's sensitivity to others (and indeed the restoration of emotional sensitivity in general after the militarized suppression of the Empire), which is actually a really neat way to explain the inconsistency! :D

    - The Imperial Ewok
  9. wawa00s Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 4, 2010
    star 1
    No No No
    Techniqly u r agreeing with me...I agreed with your agreement of the topic I set forth or the comment I made moments before....
    So to me it's more fun even more fun
  10. dewback_rancher Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2009
    star 4
    Just to throw another hydrospanner in the works, Vader in the Coruscant Nights books seems completely unaffected by taozin nodules, which are used by the Inquisitorious as a 'cloak' on their presences in the Force and help allow them to sneak up on rogue Jedi.

    IE, Typho tries to assassinate Vader using a taozin nodule charm, and Vader is unamused at his pathetic attempt.

    So, this would indicate that Vader has very fine-tuned senses. [face_thinking]
  11. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    --Reaves should've ended it there.

    --What a snappy piece of Revisionist History, circa 2007.

    Still feels contrived to me, but I'm a huge CT/OT fan, so perhaps that is what clouds my vision.:p
  12. dewback_rancher Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2009
    star 4
    The novel actually gives a MUCH better reason, far later on- though, it's given in relation to Obi-Wan Kenobi rather than Leia:

    "The Force was sometimes maddeningly inexact. There were times when, even knowing what he was, you could stand next to a Jedi Master and not feel his power; at other times you could sense him on the other side of a planet or halfway across a stellar system- distance was no barrier to the Force. The swirls of energy often his as much as they revealed."
    Death Star, page 363
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