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How could a non force user, kill a Sith?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by masterskywalker, Mar 9, 2006.

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  1. LtNOWIS

    LtNOWIS Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 19, 2005
    Aayla and Ki Adi were killed by only a handful of troopers each. But Order 66 wasn't premeditated or done with malice. It would be hard to achieve that without the GAR.

    Snipers are good. I can see feeling some uneasiness when you're under the scope, like they felt in Dark Lord, but that wouldn't be enough to save a lot of force users, especially if they're destracted by something.

    Do we know how effective landmines and booby traps are against force-users? I guess Sith usually look out for stuff like that. And we saw how effective gas was against Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon.
     
  2. MercenaryAce

    MercenaryAce Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2005
    In the RPG section, the "Jedi Hunters thread" had a lot of good ideas. Cortosis bullets, grenedes that explode if their direction is reverse (force pushed), laying land mines etc. The most tired and true taic is to squish 'im witha space ship or hit 'im with a land speeder.

    Sith shouldn't be very much harder to kill than Jedi. their lack of self control may be a strength, but is also there weakness. They are far more likly to give into rage, and when you do that, you are far more likly to do something stupid. If you do something stupid in combat, you almost assuradly will die.

    I would like to point out the Emporer does have gaurds, so he doesn't think of himself as invincible. (About the time where 50 troopers tried to kill the Emporer, I would like to point out most of those stormies where killed by the Royal Gaurd.)

    How come no has mentioned veichles? Even jedi seem to run when a tank or gunship shows up (video game boss battles aside).

    Off topic: Heres the thing though. How do you kill a Jedi or Sith who does these types of things to you. Jedi tend to be too orthodox, and Sith too arogent, to resort to using dirty tricks like these, giving no force users an upper hand. But nothing physical stops a jedi from plantin bombs, sniping (which, would they be better at snping than normal people?), running people over, or busting out in a shoot out (once again, they would make great shots, and could doge better tham most.)
     
  3. Carnage04

    Carnage04 Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 8, 2005
    True. Technically with the "He's almost as powerful as Yoda, probably more powerful than Kenobi" type talk of him, I'm guessing he'd have a pretty good chance of survival.

    Of course, luck may have been a factor in Kenobi and Yoda surviving. Aayla Secura gets 25 Troops firing at her and Yoda gets....2? Obi-Wan is shot from a distance by a single blast that wasn't certain to succeed? Perhaps, Obi-Wan, there is such a thing as luck. ;)

    Carnage
     
  4. JaySkywalker01

    JaySkywalker01 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 2005
    I think an HK-47 might help matters...
     
  5. Shrimpus

    Shrimpus Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2006
    The hallmark of an effective anti force strategy is the indirect things and the sneaky tricks.

    The Jedi/sith danger sense warns of upcoming attacks and "danger" but is very vague, if someone is immersed in a combat fugue, IE in combat with all senses blazing then the force ripples provide more solid intuition, but still do nothing to reveal the nature fo the attack.. Thus a curveball can still win.

    First: Things that a Sith/Jedi can walk through/are of limited use
    1. Stun attacks. There are force techniques to negate and absorb stuns, and while you might get the target, you also might not. Stunning is therefore unreliable and thus if you want to make a career out of it its not good.
    2. Poisons are of limited use. There are like stuns techniques that purify the body, and a force user in a combat fugue can continue to function as there body shuts down.
    3. All forms of reflectable energy attacks. Liability city.

    Second: Things that have proven of excellent effect.
    1. Emotional attacks that cloud purpose and dilute the abilty to maintain their connection. Atton was a big fan of these, saying that once you broke their concentration with a threat to someone they cared abot, or to a sith, reminded them of a human connection. Their sense of the force is blurred by their own mind poisoning them.
    2. Poisons and stunning has a better chance than a blaster
    3. Explosions
    4. Shatterguns and other physical projectiles that hit in a cloud.
    5. Range, without a combat fugue you can be hit before the force has a chance to give you more than a vague warning.
    6. Scale. Nuke em from orbit. Blow up the ship they are on. That sort of thing.
    7. Any for of sensory assualting effects though they can be worked through are better than nothing.

    For a normal man the best idea would probably be a combined arms approach. First never make a direct confrontation. Second do your research and unearth artifacts of their past, be they people or otherwse. Third setup a physically unescabale trap that works quickly but has other effects. Fourth if forced into direct confrontation make it from far away. Five be prepared to run.

    For example If one where to try and take out a sith lord like vader the best course of action would be to exploit his link to finding his son, IE setting it up so that there is a rumor of something or other on a small station. Rig a proton bomb on thestation. Rig a backup proton bomb on the station. Put corrosive gas in the ventilation system and arrange for a duelist droid with a lightsaber to distract him from your intentions.

    Stacking the deck against them and cheating like hell.

    Edit: Oh yeah last but not least give them a situation they think they can handle but actually is far more difficult than they think. They might have been able to deal with the situation had they been apprised to it but they can't. For example, setting up a bunch of remotes/seekers to attack them, but then swapping the blasters for Ssi-ruvvi beamers that warp around saber blades. And giving them a failsafe Thermal detonator core. Class A of course.
     
  6. masterskywalker

    masterskywalker Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2001
    What about though the most devastating Sith techniques? Shredding arteries with a thought, throat crushing with a guesture across time and space, force lightning, mental domination and destruction. How would one counter those?

    I'm interested to hear some ideas. :)
     
  7. Shrimpus

    Shrimpus Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2006
    Honestly the only thing that can save you from that sort of an attack is distance and LOS. Attons trick of clouding your mind with repetitive tasks and base lusts would make it very difficult for a Dark Jedi or a sith to pick you out of a crowd without direct LOS. Thus using the tricks that are indirect while holding a mind cloud amongst a group of bystanders seems best.
     
  8. AdmiralWesJanson

    AdmiralWesJanson Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 23, 2005
    Killing Sith? Corporal Midge + A280Shapshooter Rifle (v) + Blaster Proficiency. Destiny +7 to hit... :D
     
  9. Excellence

    Excellence Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2002

    Once upon a sun there was a time I would not have understood that. Now, it's like reading a second language. :D
     
  10. Mandalorian_Crusader

    Mandalorian_Crusader Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Jun 6, 2005
    Nice.[face_mischief]
     
  11. DARTH_MU

    DARTH_MU Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 9, 2005
    I don't get what all this debate is about. All one need is a Ysalamir backpack and a random old blaster. Blast away. Without the force, they can't do anything to you.

    P.S.
    Watch out for flying rocks.
     
  12. Lord_Hydronium

    Lord_Hydronium Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 11, 2002
    Luke Skywalker in Heir to the Empire would seriously disagree with that.
     
  13. Panther50

    Panther50 Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 7, 2004
    I'd just lure them somewhere , then remote detenote some bomb from a long way away. Make sure they're totally vaporized.

    Or maybe just try to overwhelm them with a few thousand combat droids.
     
  14. DARTH_MU

    DARTH_MU Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 9, 2005
    remember Droidekas. One would do.
    Reference: Survivor's Quest.
     
  15. Panther50

    Panther50 Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 7, 2004
    I figure with a Sith why take a chance.
     
  16. Excellence

    Excellence Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2002

    One droideka bloke?

    You think one little machine should pose a 12-page problem for magical wizards, who didn't even bother knocking it into a wall? You're dreaming fish kisses.
     
  17. DARTH_MU

    DARTH_MU Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 9, 2005
    Hey, the droidekas have shield generators.
    Force push is a light side specialty, you'd think if that was an option, why did Obi Wan and Qui-Gon ran?
    Force pushed into a wall would simply take lifepoints from the shields. They will regenerate.

    Better yet, equip a droideka with a ysalamir backpack :)
     
  18. Excellence

    Excellence Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2002

    Don't look at some movie choreography as an example. I can't tell you why those louts ran, anymore than why Sadow blushes his face. Lets say they ran to continue the movie, to warn a planet. I dunno.

    What gave you the impression pushing something is not a lightside act? Why are you restricting your range of thinking? I see this time and again and I grow alarmed. A mere shove is a night side act? You're not planted in one garden; pollinate where you please!

    *Gramophones the [face_flag] anthem* I hearby pledge to combat the prevading influence of dp4m's RPG tyranny!
     
  19. Lank_Pavail

    Lank_Pavail Jedi Knight star 7

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    Sep 26, 2002
    Lots and lots of explosives. Preferablly the the flechette or fragmentaion kind
     
  20. LtNOWIS

    LtNOWIS Jedi Master star 4

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    May 19, 2005
    I think they had good anti-jedi droids in Dark Rendezvous. High-level assassin droids with flechete launchers managed to take out a couple Jedi Masters.

    In non-open settings, flechete launchers or automatic slugthrowers would be ideal. Maybe armor too, to make you impervious to friendly fire.
     
  21. Excellence

    Excellence Jedi Knight star 7

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    Jul 28, 2002

    How could a non force user, kill a Sith?

    How can they not? Seriously.
     
  22. EH_Pilot

    EH_Pilot Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2003
    "How could a non force user, kill a Sith?"

    Shoot him?

    Revan, for all intents and purpouses, died when the deck plating underneath him exploded due to a single barrage of turbolasers from Malak's ship. Exar Kun's body was wiped out when the Republic fleet blasted Yavin IV. Though Nihilus died in a duel against the Exile, the Mandalorians could easily have set off their demolition charges and blown his ship into oblivion earlier. Hell, even Traya and Sion could have been done in if the mass shadow generator on Malachor V was activated. Of course, that would have killed all the game characters...

    Considering droids can't be sensed in the usual sense, a droid like HK-47 sniping someone from a couple kilometers away seems effective enough.

    Gassing works nicely, as does electrocution and incineration.
     
  23. Shrimpus

    Shrimpus Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Feb 15, 2006
    The trick is consistently doing it, or achieving the end without the consumption of excessive resources.

    For example the Revan situation. Had the republic not expended a strike team of Jedi, a good portion of their fleet and Malak not commited his treachery Revan would have walked away. The actual cases of real good one on one force blind vs sith are few and far between, adn while technically anything could kill them, statistically significant chances of survival and victory are the important criterea
     
  24. Lord_Hydronium

    Lord_Hydronium Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 11, 2002
    These things are military weapons. They're built to take heavy fire. How is pushing them into a wall going to do anything?

    While droids on their own can't be sensed in the usual way, the prequels show us Jedi can block their blaster bolts with no problem. The "danger sense" triggered by the blaster isn't as much a function of the wielder as it is the fact that it's a threat against the Force user. Now, organics probably do have a disadvantage since not only can the Jedi sense the blaster, they can also sense the intent of the wielder before they shoot, giving them even more warning. Droids do have an advantage in that sense because the Force-user's warning only comes from the shot itself, which gives them less (though under normal circumstances, still sufficient) reaction time. A droid sniper and close-up distractions, however, would probably make a fairly effective weapon.

    A Force-user's greatest strength tends to be their precognition. Conventional Force powers are all well and good, but they're physical attacks, and as such, can be repelled. Even something like Palpatine's lightning (which, in terms of effect, spread, and general usefulness is probably one of the most effective offensive uses of the Force we've seen) would be held off by a sufficiently powerful shield (or an insulated suit). That's not to underestimate their power, but ultimately, that's not what you should be worrying about the most, Jedi or Sith. Physical augmentation like jumping and speed, while useful, can be reproduced with technology. But the unmatchable aspect of Force users is that they usually know what you're going to do first. So anything to take them out should target that area. Their precognition itself can be interfered with, like Atton's mental blocking technique. Distractions work in that way as well. Or circumstances can be manipulated so that the precognition is of no use, like if they're trapped on a ship that you're about to blow up. Or using sheer scale, so they can't avoid it no matter how much they want to. Face-to-face combat rarely works because not only can the Force-user easily detect you, they can also bear the Force against you offensively.

    From EH_Pilot's list, it actually looks like ships are the biggest weakness of a Sith. On a ship, there's literally no escape (even a Sith can't survive a vacuum), only limited maneuvering room, and they can't bring the power of the Force to bear directly on their opponents. Furthermore, an opponent does not have to target them directly, only the ship, which can be a lot easier (especially since ships have a harder time deflecting lasers than lightsaber-wielding Force-users). So my solution - lure them onto a ship, then blow it up.
     
  25. SephyCloneNo15

    SephyCloneNo15 Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 9, 2005
    That strategy worked real well for Malak, didn't it? Of course, he didn't make sure to completely vape the bridge of Revan's ship, but still.

    And, based on Purge, you wanna make sure they come alone. Those punks would have had Vader if he hadn't had a batallion or legion or whatever of clones show up.
     
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