ST How dark will the tone of the ST be?

Very well put, sir. I hope that is the case.

I do hope in some way Episode VIII is the darkest one for obvious reasons. The second act is usually the darkest (and best). Everybody says ROTS is the darkest Star Wars movie because of the whole jedi purge, children slaughter, good guy gruesomely burnt on screen and so on, but it doesn't even get close to the dark tone of ESB. Actually, ROTS has no tone, it's all over the place with a pace that makes it hard to follow, with a whole bunch of unnecessary characters and subplots, forced cameos and poor character development. It's a confused film with dark elements in it, not a dark film.

What I would like to see on screen years form now is a movie that delivers, that gets our protagonists in a bind, a crossroads moment with the whole movie building to that point, and no unnecessary subplots. I want the darkness to emanate through the characters' psychology, not their actions or consequences. I need to believe what the character's going through as I did believe Luke's need to save his friends, his cockiness, his training, the way he was growing as jedi, etc.

In order for a film to be dark you have to empathize with the character's conflict and be there with them at the crossroads, when everything seems to be wrong.

That didn't happen for me when I witnessed a whinny psycho kill little kids in order to save his boring queen girlfriend.

 

I found it interesting how light and entertaining Guardians of the Galaxy was despite most of the main characters having a dark and tragic past.

 

Not dark. Light-hearted and action-packed, like ANH and GOTG.

 

What are they?

In regards to what? Star Wars or storytelling in general. It doesn't have to be about darkness per se but the problem which is set up in the first act, occurs in the second and completed in the third.

It far surpasses it. Not only because of those acts but the emotional tone and character core. ESB is dark in comparison to SW but what really happens? The really dark part is Luke finds out Vader is his father. Dark yes but nothing compared to actually seeing Anakin become Vader.

Obviously it confuses you. That's fine. I don't find it confusing in the least. It's dead clear all the way through. Great character development that has been layered over the entire trilogy, excellent pace, easy to follow, few subplots as it's really Anakin focused and a totally dark film the likes of which we will never likely see in Star Wars again.

Got that. Revenge of the Sith.

Why you can't have empathy for Anakin I don't know.

You mean a hero trying to save his wife. A hero who can't let go and is masterfully cut off from all those around him who could help except that they never really understood him. I understand your dilemma. You are like the Jedi Council. You can't understand Anakin and since you can't his plight means nothing to you because you can't see it.

 

Ok Mr. Qui-Riv-Brid, Let me clarify so you can come back at me again for thinking differently.

The second act is usually the best (and the darkest) because of how the conflict is executed. The viewer (or reader) empathizes much more with pain than with joy. It's a crucial element in any story and if done right it's the most satisfying act. Larry Kasdan explains it better: "Empire’ appeals to people, I think, because it’s the second act of a three-act play, and everything sort of goes to hell during the movie. And when you leave, everyone is in trouble, and that is the best part of the story to write. And people responded to it."

If ROTS had confused me I would've said so. I said it's a confused movie, not a confusing one. Nice passive agressive technique though, stating indirectly that I'm too dumb to understand the Star Wars prequel where Vader goes "Noooooooooo".

I don't empathize with Anakin because in three films he goes from a boring 90s "yipee" kid to a whiny, arrogant idiot who's in a relationship as believable as Barbie and Ken's, where his love interest is a non character, she's just a queen (or a politician or whatever) that says stuff to get the plot going, and she's hot. Period. Oh and the performance and dialogue are terrible of course. His whole presence in Star Wars is cringe inducing to me.

I actually understand psychology very well, and the way you describe Anakin with all his losses and background, fits with the background of a psychopath, and that's the way he comes across to me. Only that he was driven by the dark side of the force and he was powerful because his midichlorians and immaculate conception by the will of the force and all of that crap. If you take all that away, pure psycho. Maybe Padmé was in his head! She's too perfect (plain and boring) to be real! Oh snap!

 

it will be as dark as night.

 

Its a safe assumption EP VII won't be as dark as the next 2 but I sincerely hope they tone down the ' happy go lucky' and "ah shucks" moments and cut down the humor a bit.

I almost walked out of ATOC after Threepio said "am totally besides myself". In the middle of a battle, it aint time to joke and be sarcastic for a cheap laugh.

 

I personally think they should follow the pattern established in the OT, which itself was, according to Kasdan and others, modelled on the typical format of a three act play. In the beginning you have the excitement and the adventure to get the adrenaline flowing and the audience rooting for the heroes, then in the middle act everything goes to hell and the heroes limp home wounded, this leads nicely into the final act where the heroes overcome their obstacles and bring about a satisfying resolution. It's a very classical story telling format, one that has been used since the earliest stories, so there's obviously something healthy about it on a psychological level. Personally I think it feels right because it appeals to the most basic social/moral ideals.

I've always believed that was one of the reasons why the OT has continued to be successful in terms of it's legacy and place in the pop culture consciousness. It has the structure of a highly satisfying tale. Although I do think Jedi could have done with a bit more bleakness in place of certain other aspects of it's story, in order to keep the tension building towards the climax (in short I'll never give up the idea that they should have killed off Han early in the film, at the very least they should have killed off Lando instead).

Some of the ST rumours are sounding like this first film might be reasonably bleak. Which is okay, as long as the heroes come out on top in the end (if only for the time being). Let the second film be the one where everything just goes really wrong for the new generation, where it looks like they are going to fail and ultimately undo everything the older generation fought for. That'll make their ultimate triumph in the final act amazing.

 

Well, even though I haven't read everything (and I don't want to), but from what I have read leads me to believe that Episode 7 will be pretty dark indeed.

 

Other times Threepio said sarcastic comments in a middle of a battle and provided cheap laughs:

A New Hope:
Don't call me a mindless philosopher, you overweight glob of grease! Now come out before somebody sees you.
Empire Strikes Back:
Artoo, come back at once! You haven't finished with me yet! You don't know how to fix the hyperdrive. Chewbacca can do it. I'm standing here in pieces, and you're having delusions of grandeur!

Return of the Jedi:

 

I don't think it will be RoTS levels, but it will certainly have morbid elements.

 

No darker then the other 6 films, Star Wars is family fare, always has been, should not change now.

 

Hopefully ANH-level. ANH gave hope to a cynical audience and I hope that VII will do the same.

 

I think a bit darker than GotG, because GotG still had that whole irrelevant vibe of Iron Man that really shouldn't carry over too badly to this movie. Not that it's bad, but it's not Star Wars.

 

This info is really worrying me. Mostly because "dark" is such a trendy thing these days. Like a film can't be good unless is ridiculously dark. Sure ESB was "dark", but not really that bad. Besides you pretty much knew the good guys would win in ROTJ. That's just how movies were back then. I believe ROTS is the darkest film of all six. It's actually so dark that I pretty much don't watch ROTS that much because I find it too depressing. If TFA is DARKER than ROTS, I think that is just getting pretty ridiculous.


Star Wars: The Force Awakens will be the darkest Star Wars film yet, with a LucasFilm insider comparing the galaxy's situation to "the European theatre of 1944", with the Empire being Germany and the Republic the Allies in a war of attrition.


The Force Awakens will be the darkest Star Wars film yet

 

This quote of yours concerned me until I clicked on the link and discovered that the so-called LucasFilm insider is...SpoilerMan. I simply cannot take anything he says seriously.

Regarding the OP's original question, I think the trick is in the ending. The story of TFA can have plenty of darkness along the way, but as long as he ending is relatively "happy" -- the new leading characters are all alive and well and they've just defeated the baddies in some kind of big battle -- the film won't come across as being too dark.

 

There is a danger I think in making the first installment of the ST too dark. You can't get all "ESB" with this trilogy right away IMO.

We need a buildup in terms of bad things getting worse.

 

Very dark. This time the Ewoks won't let Luke and Han go after capturing them.

 

I am very torn on this. The trailer definitely had a strong sense of peril and urgency but I wouldn't say it felt dark. I feel like this is going to be the kind of film where the characters are constantly moving from start to finish. As for it being dark I do think it will land closer to ROTJ then to ESB and yes I know Jedi isn't super dark but it has its moments and I think this movie will as well.

 

Probably as dark as JJ's Star Trek films

 

agreed, dark is too much lately. dark is everywhere. dark seemed to come from this awesome (sarcasm) bunch of comic book movies that turned comics into dark gritty realistic movies. i was the first one shouting for a darker tone after watching TPM, but i think i was just really wishing for something less busy and more old school simple and good. TPM had 4 or 5 freakin plot lines all going by the end that it was dizzying. i think the tone was good for TPM as a first movie as well.
fun and exciting, with really interesting deep elements made ANH great. the 2nd would be good to get darker.

 

Brilliant...*tumbleweed*

 

A fantastic reply. Well done sir

 

I'd certainly echo some of these sentiments of the dark, gritty, reboot starting to get a bit tiring. I'd love an adventure romp.

But absolutely everything I have read that purports to be spoilerish says something quite different. Not enough leaks yet to call a certain tone, but all of the artwork shows a belligerent, exhausted universe and the great Jedi hero hiding away and in danger of completely losing his marbles.

Sure doesn't sound like ANH.

 

Well I do think Star Wars has a certain grittiness to it that makes it have a dark under tone.