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PT How did 200+ Jedi arrive at the arena on Geonosis without attracting attention?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by TheNewEmpire, Jan 17, 2018.

  1. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    The war was supposed to begin this way. Palpatine wanted Emergency Powers, so that he could deploy the Clone Army without needing the Senate to approve of the Military Creation Act. The Sith had planned this out in advanced.
     
  2. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    Where is Palpatine shown discovering the Jedi's plans? I thought Mace & Yoda were watching the Senate proceedings, which Palps was a part of, then they decide on their plan. How do we know Palps was brought into the loop?
    He looked surprised to me, esp when the lightsaber was ignited in his face. In any case we didn't get to read his thoughts.
    They don't need to be programmed for that specific task. Their general programming could've led them to respond. Mace probably distracted a couple of sentry guards, slipped past them, then they came up from behind.
    Again, general programming. Doing what they're supposed to do.
    Bcs the events fit perfectly in line with their overall plan. Which was for the Jedi & Republic to be gullible enough to bring the Clones into their ranks.

    So it is all theory. However it's quite reasonable theory that may well be the case. Not clearly established in the movie though.
    Very true. This is one of those scenarios that George would prefer we not think about too closely.
     
  3. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 5

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    Jul 7, 2009
    When they all listen to Obi-Wan's report in his office. Mace says they will deal with Dooku and the senators argue about using the clone army right away, which they can't do unless the senate gives emergency powers to Palpatine. That's the whole point of the session that happens after.
     
  4. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    Yes, that's when Naboo's best & brightest choice as galactic Representative, JarJar Binks screws everything up. But the specific plan of Mace taking the 200 Jedi & Yoda going to Kamino wasn't known to Palpatine, from what we see.
     
  5. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 5

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    Jul 7, 2009
    No, he doesn't. He makes a proposal. It's the whole senate that voted for it.

    He knew the Jedi were going after Dooku. Wether they were 5, 50 or 200 is irrelevant to the point that was being made. The use of the clone army was up to Palpatine so he had to authorize it (and therefore be aware of it).
     
  6. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

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    Aug 5, 2001
    The motion coming from a peaceful, respected planet like Naboo was crucial.
    No reason he'd be aware of Yoda taking the clones to Geonosis. He could've known, but the fact is it's not established that he did. We should separate what we know from what we think.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
  7. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 5

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    Jul 7, 2009
    It was crucial to come from someone who was not pro-military before the recent discoveries, not necessarily from a "peaceful" planet.

    The reason that he's the authority on the use of the clones is enough to make such assumption. Yoda said he was going to visit Kamino to check the army, not that he was going to bring it to Geonosis. The use of the army requires consent from Palpatine.

    In any case, the argument was regarding the Jedi, and Palpatine knew they were going after Dooku.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
  8. B99

    B99 Force Ghost star 6

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    Nov 10, 2014
    Who cares... The real question is what about the droid attack on the wookies?
     
  9. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    They already decided in Palpatine's office that Jar Jar would request Emergency Powers to be granted and that the Jedi would go to rescue Obi-wan.

    No, he knew that Mace was coming. This was all one giant trap. You don't have to read his mind to realize this was a set up from the start. He has no expression on his face that would indicate surprise, just smug contempt and he didn't have a Lightsaber in his face. Jango did. The only time Dooku expresses surprise is when Jango's decapitated.

    Yes, they do. Theses droids are programmed for that task. He even gives it away when he says, "Brave of you my old Jedi friend, but you are impossibly outnumbered." Which then leads into the four SBDs coming up behind him.

    Not that many droids and not coming out where they did.

    Once again, your theory falls apart when presented with facts.

    "We do reveal that Dooku is Darth Tyranus, he's a Sith Lord, and that he's in league with Darth Sidious and Darth Sidious is pulling all the strings and everything is going just the way he wants them to go. The Emperor continues to pull the strings."

    --George Lucas, AOTC DVD Commentary.


    Lucas said this during the scene where the Sith meet face to face and we find out who Dooku's Master is.
     
  10. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Regardless of whether Palpatine was personally privy to the plans Mace and Yoda made after the events in the Senate, he would certainly have to have been quite thick indeed not to have predicted that the Jedi would rush to the rescue of their fellow knight.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
  11. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 4, 2012
    [face_rofl]
    Order 66 gives this look new meaning. Jango was selected as the prime clone because he was considered to be the perfect Jedi killer. That a Mace Windu dispatched of him with such ease could have been a shot of doubt in Dooku's okan for Order 66.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
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  12. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    "Peaceful" or "not pro-military". You're splitting hairs. Naboo is both so that they proposed the motion was vital. It gave the proposal credibility which no doubt garnered far more widespread support in the vote. The problem for everyone is that Naboo is a ridiculous world. They elect teenage girls as their monarchs & imbeciles as their Republic Representative. As an encore they supply Sith Lords who become dictators.
    Agreed, Palps knew that the Jedi would "deal with Dooku". That's all the info he had though. I'd certainly buy that he gave Dooku a heads up to expect some kind of rescue attempt.
    But those powers were not granted at that time. For all Palps knew the Jedi could've dispatched 4 Knights in a more covert style rescue attempt, rather than an army of clones & Jedi.
    You could be right. We're left to guess as to exactly what Dooku expected.
    That gives nothing away specifically. I'd say it supports the idea that Dooku was prepared in case some kind of rescue attempt eventuated. Of course he would be.
    You realise it's possible to simply recognise that something is a theory without refuting that theory. IMO Dooku would've been prepared for a rescue attempt. So he & his forces were on alert for that. However I doubt he expected a clone army attack of that scale to occur so soon. Or that hundreds of Jedi would turn up. That's the part that is left to speculation.
     
  13. MoffJacob

    MoffJacob Jedi Knight star 1

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    Dec 25, 2015
    Force Cloak
     
  14. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    Palpatine knows that they won't go without the Chancellor being granted Emergency Powers and Mace would inform him of their intent to rescue Obi-wan with all the Jedi they can spare. Which, he already knows that they're planning to do in his office. So he knows that the Jedi and the Clonetroopers will be on Geonosis.

    He knew what to expect because Palpatine told him what to expect. That's why he says that he has good news and Palpatine says that everything is going according to plan.

    He knew because he was in on the plan from the start.

    No, it's not! Dooku knows that the Clone Army is coming because he is Darth Tyranus and he is the one who created the Clone Army. Jango has informed him that Obi-wan knows of the Clone Army and he knows that the Council knows, as well as everyone else on Coruscant. He's pretending to be surprised that the Republic has an army. He knew that they were coming. This why he's so chipper when he reports to Palpatine. What part of, "We do reveal that Dooku is Darth Tyranus, he's a Sith Lord, and that he's in league with Darth Sidious and Darth Sidious is pulling all the strings and everything is going just the way he wants them to go. The Emperor continues to pull the strings." don't you get? Palpatine has told Dooku what the plan was to start the war. The only plan that Dooku was never made fully aware of was his own demise.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
  15. -NaTaLie-

    -NaTaLie- Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 5, 2001
    Knowing what we know now, they should've simply used the Force projection. Imagine Dooku's surprise when he couldn't kill them!
     
  16. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    Why? That only relates to using the clones. What does it have to do with the Jedi trying to rescue one of their Knights? I'm sure they'd been doing that sort of thing for centuries prior to that vote.
    You've made an assumption & then a conclusion based on that. We don't know that Mace would keep Palpatine up to date on such specifics. All Palps heard was the comment "We will deal with Dooku". Anything Palps knew beyond that is speculation.
    We don't know what Palps told Dooku. We didn't see that conversation, if there was one. Everything going according to plan may've just referred to the overall plan of the clones being accepted into the fold of the Republic, the Jedi leading them which exposes them to Order 66 down the track, & a war beginning between the Separatists & the Republic. Doesn't mean they knew about/expected all of the events that led them to that point.
    He did? The movies only tell us he hired Jango. In any case what transpired 10 years ago doesn't mean he knows the actions of the Jedi now. Or even the clones. The Kaminoans imply that they haven't heard from anyone in years. Including Sifo-Dyas. So Dooku is probably not in touch with anyone there. Jango is his contact & he'd left the planet by then.
    Agreed. When the clones show up he knows exactly how the Republic received them.
    Maybe he knew they were coming then or maybe he just knew they were coming sometime. Maybe he knew there'd be 200 Jedi, maybe not. We can't be certain. It's a matter of separating the established facts from our theories. Even if those theories seem to fit.
     
  17. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 8, 2016
    As mentioned in Legends signal jamming was used to slip a Jedi strikeforce on the planet. Its not shown but some Jedi fought the separatists in space.

    The goal of the strikeforce was to rescue the three hostages and I think kill/capture the separatist leadership. This plan failed and Yoda arrived with the cavalry.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
  18. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    The Jedi are aware that there is a massive army of Battle Droids on Geonosis. They know that there are not enough to deal with them on their own. They need the clones which was the point of bringing up the Emergency Powers Act in Palpatine's office. Palpatine knows that the Jedi will make use of them once they are approved by him. He knows that the Jedi won't have enough time to recall all of the Jedi in the field. They need the clones to pull this off.

    This assumes the conversation stops when the scene shifts from Coruscant to Tatooine.

    Oh, come on! This was a plan that the two of them worked together on. If Dooku didn't know nothing, don't you think he'd be the slightest bit pissed off about it? Dooku knew that the Jedi were coming and planned accordingly.

    So, Palpatine's not going to tell Dooku to expect the Jedi to show up to rescue Obi-wan? Why? Dooku's going to forget Jedi policy, which he knew of because he was a Jedi? Why? Are you expecting anyone to believe that?

    Dooku was told that it would take ten years for the first batch to be made ready. And you think that Jango isn't going to tell him that the clones were ready, whenever they got in touch?

    There are no theories, other than your theories because you just want to have a theory other than dealing in facts. The fact is that this was a planned assault almost down to the last detail. The Sith planned to start a war and there is no reason Palpatine wouldn't keep his Apprentice apprised so that they war can go as planned. That's why Lucas said everything was planned out by Palpatine. He would be a pretty lousy Sith Lord if he didn't.
     
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  19. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Knight star 3

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    Nov 12, 2014
    I think it would have maybe given more weight (and indeed irony) and a sense of responsibility if Bail Organa of Alderaan had proposed Palpatine's powers.

    But I still loved Palpatine's little speech in AOTC. Loved the ROTS one though. As for the Jedi on Geonosis, I kinda liked the little surprise entry of them. It gave that sense of the Jedi Order's power. And their twilight as they were outnumbered and outmatched in the Arena. That their era was now being questioned.

    But I didn't get why the droidekas which had surrounded Anakin, Padme and Obi Wan, didn't just open fire? Why they decided to withdraw just because the Jedi had turned up. Hmm.
     
  20. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    Precisely. Dooku was stalling for time as he knew the Jedi were coming. He could sense them and thus needed to keep things going just long enough.
     
  21. DARTHLINK

    DARTHLINK Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 24, 2005
    ^ So why didn’t he just order the droids to kill the trio? If he knew the Jedi were coming, why would he stall and basically give them time to start activating their sabers and saving them?
     
  22. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 6, 2016
    "The dark side clouds - EVERYTHING."

    When Yoda says "everything" then it's safe to assume he means "everything" and not "not everything" as in. "Everything, the dark side clouds.(not)"
     
  23. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    He wanted them to all die at once. Dooku has a flair for the dramatic See his flipping into Grievous's quarters, instead of walking downstairs or just jumping down.
     
  24. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 4, 2012
    More made up fanfic.
     
  25. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    Dooku having a flair for the dramatic? Right. Because Darth Vader didn't wait to reveal himself to Han and Leia, by doing so in a dinning room, instead of on the landing pad or in their private quarters. Darth Sidious didn't do a spin jump before attacking the Jedi Posse? Right.