How did Anakin bring balance to the Force

A case can be made by saying balance to the force = destruction of the sith. Remember since the reformation of the republic since the second sith wars one thousand years before the jedi had been allowed to multiply thus casting too much light and contributing to their complacency. The sith were the ones behind this, the wanted to jedi to thrive and wield all of this power which is why their perceptions became clouded and then when the sith finally made their move it was too late. Does any of this make sence?????

 

The only way to bring balance to the force. Is for the Sith to be wiped out. There is no other way. Anyone that thinks differntly is wrong. Because this is what GL has decided and since it is his story he is always right.

 

He wiped out everybody and let the force sort them out.

He waited until he was sure (to him) Luke was KFC extra-crispy, then took out Palps and himself.

Luke had the poor grace to survive and destroy his father's life-work.

 

I still don't understand how, at the end, after Darth Vader, does the Force has balance. At the end there is Luke and his sister(who has no knowledge of the Force). Maybe they have balance in the way that they can have families, and be attached to things. A new jedi. Having no sith and one jedi-there is no balance. Maybe in George Lucas's mind. Someone ask him how-ha ha ha.

 

Has GL explicitly said that Anakin is the "Chosen One"? It always seemed to me that Luke was the Chosen One, and that the Jedi Masters were just being hopeful.

I think it's quite clear that "bringing balance to the Force" is a good thing. The Jedi Masters wouldn't be so hopeful about the prophecy if it predicted their doom.

However, if it IS Anakin, I'd say he brought balance WAY later in ROTJ. It was fate to have the Sith wipe out the Jedi, there was nothing anyone could do about it. But once the Empire was ruling the universe, there was an imbalance in the Force. Thus, Vader kills the Emperor, destroying the Empire, and thus bringing balance to the Force.

As an aside, I still think it's Luke who's the REAL Chosen One, and I think it's him who really brings balance. Sure Vader actually killed the Emperor, but it was Luke that made all that happen.

 

I have a few of ideas on this:

1) At the time of ANH there are two Jedi and two Sith.

2) Maybe the dark side eats up more of the force than the light side. It is certainly destructive, espicially when used to destroy life, which is what makes up the force in the first place. I say this because of the conversation in AotC that Mace and Yoda have about the Jedi's ability to use the force diminishing, so at the very end of his life he gets rid of this drain on the force by disposing of Palpatine who used a lot of the force to bring the Empire to power.

3) Luke, who is basically a new beginning for the force. He is the only Jedi at the time of Episode VI, so the force should be in full flux or balance if you will. One could also however argue that Luke would have sole access to all of the force's power and could greatly misuse it if he wanted.

 

He killed Vader and Sidious in one act, this bringing balance to the Force.

There are a lot of SW "fans" out there who think he brought balance by killing all the Jedi, this is obviously not the case.

!snap

 

Obilu_Skywalker what isn't there to understand. Bringing balance has nothing to do with the number of Jedi and Sith. Throw that out of your mind. It has to do with the force being in balance it doesn't matter how many Jedi an Sith there are. The Sith throw the Force out of balance by using in it. Because they use it for evil. The Jedi do not manipulate the force for there own use. The Sith do manipulate the force. So that throws it out of balance.

 

I dont think the argument that Anakin brought balance to the force by killing Palpatine holds up.The Emperor was minutes away from dying along with everyone else on Death Star II.Would that mean Lando and Wedge would be able to claim credit? I think Qui-Gon just blew it.

 

Who knows, if Vader would have done nothing, and Luke got fried, that the Emperor would have not realized the danger, and fled with a shuttle. I mean Luke had enough time to nearly drag his dying father around and for a moving death scene plus dialogue. He also took his father 's body down to Endor, so there seems to be plenty enough time for a powerful Sithlord.

And Lucas said that the Sith themeselves bring the force into balance, so with the death of Vader and Sidious it is finally restored. It does not always have to be the "50% of this and 50% of this"-balance, even though it's tempting.

 

One the other side of the coin, I want to know if Anakin is to bring "balance" to the Force, exactly how or why was the Force out of balance? And what exactly does that "balance" mean?

In PM, the Council acknowledges that the Force is not in balance by acknowledging the prophecies, but at the same time, how could the imbalance be due to the Sith if the Council hadn't recognized their return. Quoth Mace Windu, "The Sith couldn't have returned without us knowing it." So, from the Council's perspective, the Force is not in balance, but the imbalance is not caused by the return of the Sith. Do the Jedi not know what's going on or what?

One last thing: if the Council knew the Force was not in balance, Why weren't they doing anything about the imbalance, especially if they didn't really buy into the prophecies? Was everyone in a "Messianic mentality" waiting for a Deliverer to fix everything? No self-righteous Jedi to stand up and say, "Hey! I'm going to try to fix this!"?

 

Just because they know the force isn't in balance doesn't mean they know WHY. They might not have anticipated that the Sith would be the cause of the imbalance.

As for why they didn't do anything, by the time they realized that the Sith were the reason for the imbalance, Palpatine had too much control and it was too late. I'd imagine that in E3, we'll see the Jedi try to act, but it's too late.

And where are you getting that they don't buy into the prophecy? They obviously DO buy into it, which is why Qui-Gon is able to convince the council to take on Anakin, despite their misgivings.

Even the most powerful Jedi masters have strong belief in the Force. They know that in the end, things will happen how they're meant to happen through the Force.

Anakin did bring balance, but the Jedi didn't realize it would be after much greater imbalance.

 

First off let me appologise for the long post that follows. I posted this before on another thread regarding the nature of the force/midis and transferrance, but am reposting here because it really kind of boils town to this topic. In general it discusses some of my thoughts on the force as it has evolved through the films. I have edited it down somewhat, and expanded slightly on others.

some thoughts:

The council was awfully lack lustre about Anakin, thus suggesting that the presence of midis in itself is not that unusual, and not significant enough to automatically warrant bringing young Ani into the order. They were quite prepared to have the chosen one be outside the order.

Once we reach EP.IV the jedi have been effectively eraticated, and thus their knowledge of midis and the force is gone. Society then views the force as myth and religion. But as Qui-gon states that without them life could not exist, so clearly they must still exist beyond the Jedi. So now we come full circle, could not Yoda and Ben have recruided more young children in secret to create Jedi? perhaps, but it would apper that they understood that would be pointless as balance could only be restored through the prophesy, and doing so would expose them to the emperor and they would not be able to watch and guide Luke. The last hope thing wasn't about there being no more force sensitives or potential Jedi or even midis, it was all about the fulfillment of the prophesy.

Now to address how this ties into the prophesy. First off none of us know what the prophesy actually says. Suppose, soley for the sake of arguement at the moment, that there is a bit of misunderstanding on the part of the Jedi initially? WHAT IF it says that THROUGH the chosen one, balance will be restored. That would still leave Anakin as the chosen one, but the loophole there creates a vagueness which balance can be acchieved via Luke. (or Leia, as Yoda later points out). Any other Jedi would not address this requirement of the prophesy, and thus Luke (or Leia) is the last hope. As I mentioned before Yoda seemed quite comfortable to not have the chosen one as a jedi. In his wisdom he may have figured that for the prophesy to be fulfilled the chosen one would not necessarily need to be a student of the force as the living force itself which chose and concieved the 'one' would ultimately sort itself out. And that my be why they did not try to take and train Luke from day one (they certainly had the opportunity to teach him in the Jedi way from day one). Yoda might have been of the belief that the order was not imperative to the fulfillment of the prophesy, and thus is why he was again reluctant to train Luke, especially at his age. And felt Leia again untrained offered hope. It has only been through Obi-wan's (and Qui-gon to some extent) insistance and doing that either Anakin or Luke recieved any jedi training whatsoever and at Yoda's disaproval. This also allows for the viewpoint that Ben and Yoda figured Vader was beyond redemption and must be destroyed (whether this was their view or not is not the issue here).

Has anyone considered that balance could be cyclic? for the Yin to dominate for 1000 generatons, the yang must also come to pass. A very budist theme. Thus turning to the dark was his eventual destiny, and through Luke the Yang would also pass. Luke being as vital to the prophesy as Anakin.

Although Oblide-Oblida's view on balance/harmony vs. chaos migh just have converted me to that notion. Good one. I will meditate on it, lol

GD

 

Interesting thoughts! One thing though is that you're assuming that the council accepted Anakin as the "Chosen One" from day 1. Which I don't think is true. Qui-Gon believed he was the Chosen One, and they presented him to the council that way, but that doesn't mean that Yoda was convinced. Not only that, but he felt problems within Anakin (anger, hate) and was concerned about that.

Later on, I think it's safe to say that Yoda had been pretty much depressed. We forget that just b/c Yoda was a great Jedi doesn't mean he's perfect. Here he is, having lived 900 years and probably living in the worst moment in his life and having seen countless Jedi brothers murdered and the whole universe turned against their protectors. Yoda wasn't exactly feeling optmistic about another "Chosen One" when Luke sought him out.

I also don't agree that he could have just trained Jedi in secret. He was hidden in Dagobah for his life. How was he supposed to go back and forth recruiting and training Jedi with Vader out and about killing everyone? Yoda was in no position to start some kind of rebellion. He already saw the Jedi council get torn apart, what are some small group of secret Jedi going to do? Yoda knew that somehow the prophesy would have to come true and that he had to believe in the Force. That was the only way.

It seems to me that it's pretty clear. There was a clear imbalance with the Empire ruling the universe, as the Force isn't meant to be constantly used for evil. After Vader killed the Emperor, he ensured that Luke could rebuild the Jedi and the Force could be used for peace again.

 

Anakin/vader brings balance to the force by
1. killing palpatine. Because there are no jedi/sith left that is what brings balance. And before anybody says it Luke is not a jedi, well not in the way obi-wan or yoda was,
he is a new jedi that has all the emotions the council once looked down on.
2.He is the father of Luke, who is now the balance between jedi and sith.
That is how the prophecy is completed.

 

Just thought I'd toss in my two creds.

Re: The Balance of the Force

Here's my favorite theory. I think we can all agree that the PT Jedi in their white tower, with their political entanglements, static natures and proscription of attachments (i.e. emotion), are perhaps not what the flowing, life-created Force wills for its servants. Even Jedi compassion, willingness to defend the innocent and seek justice?which are traits the PT Jedi do have?are twisted against the blinded Order when the Jedi find themselves trapped in a war that doesn't have a right side, defending the corrupt Republic that becomes the Empire. On the other hand, there's the Sith?insatiable greed and hunger that would strip the galaxy.

If I were the Force, I would not be pleased. Enter the Chosen One.

However, the Force does not coerce Anakin to do anything. The Force makes suggestions, but he has the free will to choose his course of action. He has unmatched potential to be the greatest Jedi, to reform the Order, to rid the galaxy of the Sith and do Force knows what else. Ending up the Sith apprentice, on life support after being hacked apart and cooked alive probably wasn't in the grand plan. The Jedi Purge was probably not the kind of reform wanted, even if Yoda and Obi-wan do realize the errors of the old ways. Now Palpatine is Emperor, unchecked with no one left to challenge him.

Ah, but that's okay! The Force has a backup plan. That would be Luke and Leia. Its Chosen One lost, the Force moves through the twins and begins upsetting Palpatine's plans. Obi-wan and Yoda train Luke with the new insights twenty or so years of hermitage grant, and Luke, stubborn as he may be, learns to listen to his heart. And the rest is history. When ROTJ ends, the PT Jedi Order has been swept away, the greatest Sith lineage ended, and there is a new breed of Jedi in Luke.

In a word: perfect.

Posted 27 April 2005 on LJ

For better posts on the subject than I could ever hope to make, check out Balance of the Force.

 

^^^^

The point you make about the force having a back-up plan due to Anakins' free moral will choices is more or less describing fate or destiny.

No matter what Anakin does the force will be balanced either by him or through him.

End game...

 

Tell me, how is "wiping out the Sith" and overcoming the Dark side so only the Light side of the force exists "bringing balance to the force" ? It doesn't make any sense - there should be an equal share of light and dark. That, IMO, is true balance.

The prophecy could have been misread.

 

That's... not quite what I meant, Master_Rebado. The wording is perhaps not the best.

I think predestination (i.e. fate, destiny, the will of the Force) and free will, like nature and nurture, coexist and interact in complex ways. In the case of Luke and Leia, it's not so much that the Force planned to have a little insurance and made sure the twins were conceived, but rather that... the Force worked with what was there.

Like a spring in tension or compression, the Force will tend toward its natural, balanced state. Hence, Anakin is born as the Chosen One, the first Jedi who stumbles across the boy happens to be the unconventional, in-tune-with-the-Living-Force Qui-gon Jinn and under the Jedi's protection is the beautiful young Queen of Naboo. Qui-gon was put in a situation where he'd have to deal with Watto and meet Anakin, but it was his decision to gamble to free Anakin and his mother. Just as it was Watto's to make that choice one between Anakin and Shmi, and Darth Maul's doing that Qui-gon is dead by the end of TPM. Certainly Anakin would have turned out different - probably for the better - if he'd not been separated from his mother or if Qui-gon'd been there for him as mentor and father figure. However, the Force can only nudge events to set the stage, so to speak, not make the choices for the players. Luckily, Qui-gon had passed his stubborn insistence that Anakin be trained as a Jedi to his Padawan Obi-wan, and the Force didn't have to head back to the drawing board. Cliegg Lars even happens to wander by Watto's shop, where he falls in love with Shmi and ultimately releases her from bondage. It'll be harder for Anakin to fulfill his destiny as Chosen One, but it is still very possible.

Padmé may well be Anakin's fated romance; as an innocent child open to the Force, he's instantly fascinated with her and even claims, IIRC, he'll one day marry her. This isn't necessarily because the twins must be born. Bear with me here, and consider how events might have gone if Anakin and Padmé's secret marriage had been discovered by a Jedi Order that was not embroiled in the destructive Clone Wars that Palpatine engineered. Might the Chosen One's attachments and the debate that would inevitably follow lead the Jedi to re-examine the precepts of the Order? And this assuming Padmé returns Anakin's love; the Force might encourage her in that direction, but she must make the lunge.

As in TPM, the results are mixed. Padmé loves and marries Anakin, but Anakin's already under the influence of Palpatine and resentful of the Jedi's strict ways. Shmi was living happily with the Lars family, but went mushroom hunting and ended up in the unkind hands of the Sand People. That, of course, leads to Anakin becoming anxious, then a grieved and angered mass murderer, more fearful of personal loss. Even Obi-wan and Anakin's relationship, while hurt by a rocky start, has reached a level of respect with ten years of close contact. Until Obi-wan is sent across the galaxy chasing after the minions of Sidious. The fulfilment of Anakin's fate seems rather more complicated.

By the end of ROTS, Anakin has all but blown his chance to restore balance to the Force. Now matters are worse.

If Obi-wan and Yoda hadn't survived the Purge, if Luke and Leia hadn't been born, the Force would've had to set up some even more unlikely scenario to rid the galaxy of the Sith and bring about the renewal of the Jedi Order. As it was, the Force nudged around what it could and let everything play out. An Imperial officer decides to hold fire on a seemingly faulty escape pod, Artoo and Threepio happen to both get picked up by the same Jawas, who in turn happen to head for the Lars moisture farm, Skippy happens to bust a motivator, so on and so forth. Still, it is Obi-wan who must decide the time is right to train Anakin's son, Luke who must leave the life he knew behind for the mysterious ways of the Jedi (though Imperials killing his uncle and aunt, then razing his home helped that choice along, huh?), Han who must agree to take these shady

 

Here is my take on it. In order to bring balance to the force, it was neccessary for Anakin to destroy the Jedi. Their ways of teaching were ineffective for the times that they were in and it needed to be changed, so inorder for the change, they had to be wiped out. The force had to have a clean slate inorder to be balanced.

I thnk that there are acouple different things that need to be balanced, frst off the sith have to be destroyed to have balance in it, since they are what cause the inbalance in the first place. Also the Jedi have to use and understand all aspects of the force(except ofcourse, the dark side). In the Prequels, they seem to be split, the Unifying force and the Living force. One focuses on the moment and the other the future. Most of the council was stuck in only using the Unifying force. If they balanced it out and used the living force as much as they did the Unifying, they could have seem that Anakin needed help and helped him out. Instead they just sat there saying how dangerous he was and only did something about it when it was to late. They also might have been able to spot that Palpatine was a Sith and that the Senate was corrupted.

As for Qui-Gon, if he used the Unifying Force more, he might be alive because he could have survived the duel, his Jedi Reflexes were not that good. He could have seen what Mauls technique was and exploited it.

In the OT Yoda and Ben seem to have learned from they mistakes and taught him both.

That is just my 2 censt anyway.

 

he brought balance to the force by killing all the jedi's except for 2 because there are 2 sith's. that way there is 2 jedi's and 2 sith's which makes it blaanced

 

I dont think the argument that Anakin brought balance to the force by killing Palpatine holds up.

It's not an argument, it's a fact. Lucas has explained this before, plain and simple.

!snap

 

he brought balance to the force by killing all the jedi's except for 2 because there are 2 sith's. that way there is 2 jedi's and 2 sith's which makes it blaanced

NO

NO

NO

How long is this rumor going to still be around? He brought balance by disposing of both remaining Sith. Period. No question. END.

EDIT: Also, Sith is plural in the same form as it's singular, so there is no such word as "Siths".

!snap

 

Ok. Anakin was the one who would "bring balance".
Hundreds of Jedi, two Sith. Something has to give.
2 Sith plus a limitless army of clones wipe out the jedi, all but two. Luke is born. He helps end the Sith, at the expense of Dad. Luke is the balance. He is a jedi but with some dark elements.

 

People need to get off the whole number thing. It's not a balance on such a rudimentary way. We're not talking about numbers here. It's not like any time there is more than 2 Jedi, the whole universe is going to get crazy again.

It's NOT a numbers game. It's far deeper than that. It's the use of the Force and how it's applied to the Universe by Jedi and Sith.

If it was a numbers thing, there was "balance" when the Empire ruled the Universe because Yoda and Obi-Wan were still alive, which would "balance" the 2 Sith in Sidious and Vader. That was obviously not the case.

Instead, the Emperor used the Dark Side to rule the Universe, and the Force isn't meant to be twisted in such a way. When Vader killed the Emperor, the Dark Side no longer dominated, hence balance was restored.