PT How did Anakin defeat Dooku?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by BoromirsFan, Feb 27, 2012.

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  1. BoromirsFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2010
    star 4
    was it anger or rage? Focused determination?

    I thought he focused something but i never got the impression he was furious at Dooku or enraged like Luke vs Vader. If anything i felt Anakin was using the darkside more during his duel with Obi-Wan.

    What do you guys think? I thought even at his normal pace Anakin would have eventually win, his last burst just allowed him to grab Dooku and steal his hands.
  2. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    The ROTS novel spells it out pretty clearly.

    But Palpatine's words rage is your weapon have given Anakin permission to unseal the shielding around his furnace heart, and all his fears and doubts shrivel in its flame.
    When Count Dooku flies at him, blade flashing, Watto's fist cracks out from Anakin's childhood to knock the Sith Lord tumbling back.
    When with all the power that the dark side can draw from throughout the universe, Dooku hurls a jagged fragment of the durasteel table, Shmi Skywalker's gentle murmur
    I knew you would come for me, Anakin smashes it aside.
    His head has been filled with the smoke from his smothered heart for far too long; it has been the thunder that darkens his mind. On Aargonar, on Jabiim, in the Tusken camp on Tatooine, that smoke had clouded his mind, had blinded him and left him flailing in the dark, a mindless machine of slaughter; but here, now, within this ship, this microscopic cell of life in the infinite sterile desert of space, his firewalls have opened so that the terror and the rage are
    out there, in the fight instead of in his head, and Anakin's mind is as clear as a bell.
    In that pristine clarity, there is only one thing he must do.
    Decide.
    So he does.
    He decides to
    win.
  3. BoromirsFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2010
    star 4
    I am basing it off the film, not the book.

    Isn't the film the final vision?
  4. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    The book is on an equal canon level with the movies, except where they conflict directly (i.e. different dialog in certain scenes).

    Besides, if you're only basing it off the film, there is no possible way to know the answer. You can speculate, sure, but speculation is pointless when there is already a definitive answer. You might as well just say that Anakin had to take a poop really bad and finished off Dooku quickly so he could run to the bathroom.
  5. HevyDevy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 4
    Dooku took his arm, threatened Palpatine's life, knocked out Obi-Wan and then taunted Anakin into using his hate and anger against him. With someone quick to anger like Anakin I think it is strongly implied that he tapped into the darkside. Notice the burst in speed after the saber lock and Dooku's taunts.
    While some note Dooku was asked to test him, and therefore might not have been going all out at first, I think this sudden burst overwhelmed him, and Anakin genuinely overpowered him, with help from his passion.
    Also it is important to point out that Luke takes far more aggravation before he gives into anger. Although like you said, Anakin probably isn't quite as enraged was Luke at that moment.
  6. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4
    Perhaps his mechanical forearm also had something to do with it? In this battle, Anakin somehow brought the mechanic and the organic together. Remember his early affinity for machines and fixing things: making new out of old? I would contend that Dooku underestimated how much Anakin had it together when he was actually determined and calculating enough. You even see Anakin forming a couple of gestures, I think, with his fleshy hand, when their sabers are locked together during Dooku's taunting, and again, bringing his fleshy hand into the equation, at the moment of him performing that arc-slice which takes off Dooku's own fleshy hands and allows Anakin to confiscate his saber. Also, during the wide-shot assault, where Anakin forces Dooku backwards, right-to-left, unleashing his fury, you see a hailstorm of laser blasts in the background, as ARC fighters, shooting red bolts, apparently fly towards a barrage of green bolts, embracing the madness of war in a co-ordinated burst of aggression/suicide, much like the way Anakin suddenly gives in to Dooku's bait, or springing the trap, as Obi-Wan earlier (provocatively) advised. It's almost like Anakin, with his latent Force ability, unconsciously taps into the mania of the battle that's raging outside, channelling the souls of individuals he earlier wanted to help, alternately using their aggression for his own ends, as he finally gets the upper-hand (in more ways than one) on an adversary he was keen to displace since losing to him in their last engagement. There was something that felt right about this to Anakin, even though he is clearly perturbed at deviating from "the Jedi way": a something that Palpatine later puts into concrete terms that Anakin (and the audience) is more likely to understand.
  7. ForceJumpAnakin Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 24, 2006
    star 3
    LMAO
  8. HevyDevy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 4
    This is kind of off-topic, and an old observation, but there is some symbolism in the fact that Anakin uses his mechanical arm to hold the blue saber, and his organic arm to hold the red. Like he is leaving the Jedi behind and embracing the new by killing Dooku in this fashion.

    Nice, I agree. It can also be noted that as the tide turns in the duel, the battle seems to follow outside. At the start of the duel, and as Anakin struggles, the Seperatist fighters seem to be the pursuers of the Republic ships outside.
    But as Anakin goes all-out on Dooku, and after 'disarming' him, the Republic ships are now more seen pursuing. Possibly hinting that Anakin is strenghtening the Empire by his actions?
  9. Cushing's Admirer Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2006
    star 6
    In reality it's because Dooku was doomed for the sake of Anakin's journey. Merely a throw away pawn. I knew he was to die but I expected a bit more class. :( I will always feel that Christopher's final contribute was mishandled but that the veteran elder did the best he could with the weak material given to him.

    Far as the film, it looked to be raw power and brute strength and rage that fueled Anakin in the battle but the actual killing was a *willing* choice. When he killed a helpless Dooku, he embraced Darkness. If they'd been realistic, I feel Anakin would lose *every* time. Experience, restraint, and skill count for a lot.
  10. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4
    I like that observation a lot. His grasing of the blue saber in his mechanical hand also anticipates his strangling of Padme -- his blue angel -- on Mustafar. The blue-in-mechanical-hand could also be read as an indicator of stagnation. That is, the Jedi path, and Jedi methods, are stultifying and outmoded, like a repetitious machine unable to transcend itself, while the red of the Sith arts held in Anakin's organic hand hints at more dynamic possibilities. In this sense, it is Anakin's allegiance to the Jedi that wrecks him, not his changing over to the Sith. Another way to look at it is that it is Anakin's own perception of the Jedi's machinic rigidity that damns him. He is unable to creatively interpret their dictates; instead, he feels worn down, even insulted (the promotion scene), and bristles at them. The Sith path offers the illusion of freedom, but it's a short ride to dismemberment and enslavement. There's plenty weird here, though. We shouldn't become constrained by absolutes. Consider the fact that Anakin uses red and blue to actually kill Dooku.

    That's a cool reading. Yeah, he is strengthening the Empire, perhaps, in a way that he is unaware, even though we're (peripherally) aware of it. We, as viewers, can see a "bigger picture" (quite literally, in fact) as Anakin battles Dooku, and after disarming him, while Anakin himself remains focused on a more individuated and personal goal. It's like a visual restatement of the personal and the political which the previous movie (AOTC) raised up into a heightened state of awareness for our benefit. And, of course, this is the same two characters settling an old rivalry which developed at the end of the last movie. In contrast, Luke was gazing out
  11. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    COUNT DOOKU: "I sense great fear in you, Skywalker. You have hate, you have anger, but you don't use them."

    That's exactly what he did, he used his anger and hate to overwhelm the more seasoned Dooku. Matthew Stover just put it into context using all those events in Anakin's life to illustrate what it meant to lose control of himself. That's why Palpatine applauded him for his actions.

    PALPATINE: "It is only natural. He cut off your arm, and you wanted revenge. It wasn't the first time, Anakin. Remember what you told me about your mother and the Sand People."

    The problem was that he had not fully surrendered himself to his anger, which is why he didn't abandon Obi-wan and was still a Jedi.
  12. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    Laugh all you want, but the text printed there is more official than any other answer.
  13. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    By grabbing Dooku's wrists.
  14. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    I always kinda lol at that, Arawn-it's almost funny; this political manipulator/precision swordsman/snooty count get his hands whacked off by Anakin literally grabbing him. It's a very "HOLD STILL!!" (Happy Gilmore, with Happy's boss vs. Shooter) "YOU MADE ME BLEED MY OWN BLOOD!"(Nelson, the Simpsons) type of moment to me.
  15. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Dammit. Now I want to write a parody fan fic. :p

    "I sense great fear in you, Skywalker."

    "That's not fear. I ate too much pallie fruit."

    On the thread topic, I thought Stover explained it pretty well. Anakin did draw on his fear and anger to kill Dooku--he was afraid for Obi-Wan, afraid for Palpatine, and angry at Dooku--for cutting off his arm, for knocking Obi-Wan out, and for his role in kidnapping Palpatine.

    And this is my speculation, not Stover's, but Anakin probably thought that repressing his anger caused Dooku to defeat him on Geonosis. And he wasn't going to let that happen again.
  16. BoromirsFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2010
    star 4
    Well I did notice that Anakin did some cool maneuver with his saber, allowing him to grab dooku's wrists.

    I don't think Lee got bad material, i think they made Dooku's part smaller to fit Lee's schedule.
  17. Cushing's Admirer Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2006
    star 6
    That's totally fine, BF. It doesn't change my view that they were disrespectful in how they handled Lee's brief appearance even though everyone knew he was doomed.
  18. BoromirsFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2010
    star 4
    How was it disrespectful? I felt it was disrespectful, in fact insulting to completely remove Lee from Return of the King's theatrical cut.

    When i thought of ROTS i thought dooku would be killed at the end of the film, but I like his early death. The duel is nice and i find the image of the crossed blades at his throat to be quite memorable.

    His early death allows Anakin to fall in the middle, as opposed to the end.

    But I am not trying to insult you of course, I just disagree :D

    I think Lee does a great job no matter how short his screen time is.
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