Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Seagoat
, Mar 6, 2013.
Presumably. But again, nothing we see onscreen confirms it.
We see nothing onscreen to explain how twenty-meter-tall AT-ATs walk, either. Does this mean they couldn't?
We also don't know how Padme knew about Dooku's hangar, but obviously she did. So things like that, the Death Star or AT-AT operational systems shouldn't necessarily be branded plot holes, as some have. Obviously the comparisons have spun out of control, somewhat.
But seriously. The Death Star going into hyperspace would look hella silly.
It's reasonable to assume that an AT-At or a Death Star are designed to operate in a way that makes them worth building, it's not reasonable to assume a character magically knows where someone is headed for literally no reason. It's a flaw.
No more silly than the bright flash we get when Star Destroyers do.
There's no way in hell you're going to past light speed on thrust power, I don't care how much energy they output.
How about via cheating the laws of physics? With "inertial dampeners" nullifying most of the inertia, except for the reactant thrust, you're no longer accelerating a multi-million tonne starship, you are, effectively, accelerating a 1 kilo starship. Or something along those lines.
Add in a way of also breaking the usual problem of Einstein's laws- that make acceleration harder the closer to the speed of light you go.
The Padme point is legitimate. When she falls out, Obi-Wan and Anakin have an argument. Given how fast the gunship they're in is going, it's reasonable to assume they've travelled quite a distance since Padme fell out. In fact Anakin wanting to lower the ship and jump out it somewhat funny because he'd potentially have to walk miles back to where she was.
It's certainly reasonable to assume that Dooku and the Jedi gunship were out of her sight by the time she came around. Also, watching the scene, she never actually looks off into the distance. With that said, it's not unreasonable to deduce that Dooku was heading to his ship, given that the Trade Federation ships were already evacuating. You can even stretch it if you like and say that she just assumes it's a hanger because that's where ships are kept. But weighing up the arguments, her having knowledge that she shouldn't have due to script errors is the most obvious explanation.
Of course Padme was at least travelling in the general direction of the hanger while on the gunship. Yoda on the other hand had no clue what was going on or where they were going but he managed to find his way. Still, he has the Force. It should be said though that Yoda clearly didn't pick Padme up. Padme can be seen arriving after Yoda has had his duel, just as Dooku is getting away. What does this mean? That Yoda probably passed Padme in the desert but couldn't be bothered giving her a ride. Selfish little toad!
You know, and this doesn't fit with any official canon, I always assumed that hyperspace travel and light speed travel were two different things. That in order to punch through into hyperspace you had to break the light barrier but you could still travel at light speed in normal space. So in Empire when the Falcon's hyperdrive was broken, in my mind, the Falcon travelled to Bespin at light speed, which in galactic terms is actually pretty slow.
But as I said, that was just my theory and it's contradicted by canon sources.
Another little quip is that Yoda had to arrive at that hangar on a gunship, yet when Padme arrives Yoda's gunship is nowhere to be seen.
You could make the argument that the pilot returned for reinforcements or something, but why?
You can still travel fairly close to light speed- maybe on the order of 1/10 to 1/5 light speed- in normal space. But that's still far too slow to cross the void between systems.
However, in very, very early Marvel comics, there were scenes of ships travelling from system to system without entering hyperspace.
New Planets, New Perils (first in the A Long Time Ago collection, after the ANH comics)
"So set 'em for Tatooine... Next stop, Mos Eisley Spaceport... though we've a few more light years to go before we even cut to hyper-space!"
Bad editing. The Prequels are rampant with it.
There's no way she could have seen the damn hangar that far away considering that they travelled several more miles after she fell. Nah, she just put two and two together since she knew he would be flying somewhere. But still, it's a bit presumptuous.
I love the pandemonium Ingram_I created with his simple post.
I agree with you as far as AT-ATs and Death Stars go. In fact, it's actually quite loopy, in my opinion, to assume the Death Star would hobble around the galaxy on mere thrusters. It could not credibly pose a threat to anything or anyone at sub-light speed. On the other hand, HOW it achieves great speeds -- i.e., hyperspace -- is still open to question. Maybe it's towed around? That does sound rather silly, though. But then, something sounding silly doesn't make it not so (Captain Picard probably wants to strangle me this instant). A better way to look at it is: absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. It could well have its own hyperdrive and hyperdrive ability. In fact, per TESB, being small may actually be an impediment to functionality and strip your ship of some abilities possessed by larger vessels ("No ship that small has a cloaking device").
That axiom -- absence of evidence is not evidence of absence -- also applies to the deal with Padme declaring that they have to get to that hangar. It's a moment appropriately nestled within a loaded juxtaposition between Anakin and Padme -- Force lovers -- lying wounded in their haste to reach Dooku. That they both further "fall" unconscious -- into a netherworld -- cannot be regarded idly in a sedimented mythological piece like Star Wars (mythology is full of allusions to the unconscious: passages to the underworld, dreams, visions, nightmares, etc.). There is something to that. You have to learn to switch off your targeting computer and reach into the poetry of the Force to see/feel it, however. Furthermore, there is also the specific tonality of this film: ATTACK OF THE CLONES. It's a campy title, and in the words of the carefully-chosen Lucasfilm blurb announcing the title back in August 2001: "It harkens back to the sense of pure fun, imagination and excitement that characterised the classic movie serials and pulp space fantasy adventures that inspired the Star Wars saga." A staple of movie serials and pulp fantasy is that they are full of trash happenings and ungainly coincidences; what an impatient, unimpressed viewer might term "plot holes".
"We've got to get to that hangar." Y'know, it's a line I never even thought twice about until I came online. But I'm not throwing that out as iron-clad objection. Because, hey, there are lots of other things I never thought about before I got online -- about Star Wars and much else -- and I consider myself richer for discovering and setting my mind to them since. Yet it's brazenly nitpicky to isolate so small a line and attack it without a second thought. If it's cheesy, it's cheesy in a correct way: correct for this film being more self-consciously "cheesy" or "cheese-inspired" than the others, and correct, even, to its themes. Suddenly, they're absurdly focused on a hangar. Padme mouths it like it's some epic mission objective. Like blowing up the Death Star. But it's really not that important. Important to her for Anakin, perhaps -- her attachment already getting the better of her -- but not important in a deeper socio-moralistic sense. If Dooku is caught, he might be the leader of the opposition, but he's still only one man. And can you really catch a person and cage them like an animal? The Republic has spiralled out of control here; and Padme, as its mother figure, is already knee-deep in the madness. That she is clearly visually and symbolically linked to the clones, even being the one who points out their arrival to the Jedi in the arena, is yet further proof -- to me -- of AOTC's labyrinthine magnificence.
This is what I think happened...
Obi-Wan and Anakin spot Dooku flying away from the battle with protective escort.
They follow Dooku, but his escort takes evasive action and gets behind the Jedi's gunship.
The gunship takes a hit and Padme and one clone trooper fall out but manage to land safely onto a nearby sand dune.
The Jedi gunship continues on — not stopping for the two that fell out.
Dooku arrives at his ship's hangar, but not before handing over the Death Star plans to his navigation droid.
The Jedi arrive, but the gunship and its crew are destroyed while trying to land.
The Jedi and Dooku engage in a lightsaber battle.
Padme is awakened by the clone that fell with her and she tells him to radio for help in getting to a supposed hangar that she assumed they were heading for.
Yoda's gunship receives a transmission from Padme's clone and orders the ship's crew to retrieve them once he's dropped off at Count Dooku's hangar.
Dooku defeats both Obi-Wan and Anakin, but Yoda arrives just in time to delay the Count's escape.
The Count and Yoda fight, but sensing that clone troops were arriving soon, Dooku Force crushes and breaks a nearby power generator to crash onto the fallen Jedi that he had incapacitated earlier on.
The Count boards his ship and Padme and the clones that were ordered to go back for her arrive too late to stop him from escaping.
Point is, it isn't really a plot hole, it just wasn't important enough to waste screen time on, which is why I pointed out that no one made it clear that there would be no way off the island. Sneaking back to the base, finding a way to radio for help and get it, isn't a stretch. The film had reached its climax, he'd essentially won and the important thing was to see what they'd do with the ark now that they'd seen its power.
I honestly didn't care enough by that point in AOTC to pay attention to what was coming out of Padme's mouth that closely. So honestly I'm not calling it out as a plot hole, only that this one in Indy (completely off-topic I know!) isn't, at least not by my definition, usually has to be such a stretch that the logic falls to pieces no matter what you try to plug in there.
I'm going to watch the RLM review again.
Maybe Dooku was just heading to the only hangar around for miles..might be hard to miss in the middle of a desert.
Take this to George himself.
It wouldn't be a very good planet killer without a hyperdrive to take it from one system to another.
Careful study has led me to three possibilities:
1. Padme has ears and eyes that fully function and is riding in an advanced military vehicle, thus it is incredibly likely that a trooper checked the sensors/mapping system of the ship, proclaimed that "Dooku is heading for a hangar," and Padme heard this before being knocked out of the ship.
2. Indiana Jones had to use a time warp to get the Ark off of the island. The time warp had larger consequences, though, causing a T-800 to be sent to Naboo when Padme was a girl. There the T-800 told her stories of the future war, which included escape tactics involving hangars. This would also explain the ROTS deleted scene where Anakin asks Padme to order a pizza for dinner, and she replies with a "no problemo."
3. There is no answer. This is the first time in the history of film that an action movie sacrificed knit picking details in favor of keeping the action moving. The prequels are now dead to me, and I will only watch the O-OT on laserdisc while drinking a vintage bottle of Crystal Pepsi.
I think that it was either assumed by Padme that he was going to be heading somewhere for a starship and the likely place is a hangar or one could assume it was mentioned off-screen like when the Geonosian fighters peel off and start attacking the gunship.
I do remember this being discussed ad nauseam 10-11 years ago
Or they could have just not used the word "hangar."
Padme didn't know about Dooku's hangar. She and the clone troopers simply followed the direction that Anakin and Obi-Wan were going, who were following Dooku. And she didn't arrive at the hangar, until after Dooku had long made his escape.
Whoever came up with this theory that Padme knew about Dooku's hangar should watch the movie again. And I'm surprised that so many of you accepted this theory as fact.
I forgot to add . . . I think it's pretty obvious that Dooku was headed for a hangar. Where else can he go to get a transport off the planet? Padme, along with Anakin and Obi-Wan saw the vehicle (or scooter) he was using to reach a certain destination.
We have a winner.
It's not like it was a small building.