How did Palpatine become so powerful?

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by Vaan_Karrde, Jan 8, 2006.

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  1. Darth_Turkey Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2004
    star 4
    It all depeds on your point of view. The darkside could be stronger, for what Anakin wants to use it for. To sustain life or prevent death

    Lucas says the Darkside is stronger, thats why anakin knows he has to eventually go over to the darkside, to gain this power to save people.

    Bus as we know, Yoda tells us the dark side is not stronger. Just easier, more seductive, quicker to join you in a fight.


    From Anakins point of view the darkside is stronger and more powerful, becasue it could hold secrets he wants to learn, but gets suduced with power allong the way.

    But from the Jedi point of view, the darkside is weaker because they see the act of wanting to prevent death to be an act of fear and greed . . . traits that make a person weak.

    The jedi use the force for knowledge and defence, where as the sith use it selfishly to benifit themselves. In the end, both the Jedi and the Sith view the other as "the weak one" for different reasons, but Yoda is right of coarse, the Darkside is not stronger becasue only through love, compassion and the giving up of one's self can a Jedi attain eternal life in the nether world of the force. Something a Sith can never achieve becasue they dont possess these emotions. :0)
  2. MaceWindu_is_GOD Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2005
    star 3
    Wether through GL's words which he did say that the Dark Side is more powerful or just the movies itself, The Dak Lords of the Sith are more powerful than their Jedi counterparts.


    It always takes 2 Jedi to one Sith and in Palpatine's case 4 Jedi against one Sith.


    It's coz the Sith uses their power for aggression and domination which are very powerful traits but it could also lead to thier demise.

    While the Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense which are traits of serenity and not built for power.

    Even from the beginnning, the only way the Jedi took over the galaxy from the Sith oppression was because the Sith started to destroy themselves coz of thier own individual hunger for power which has lead to the Sith being 2 at a time.

    Since the Sith are very powerful like Maul who took on 2 Jedi at a time killing one of them and almost beating the other and Tyranus who also took on 2 Jedi at a time humiliating Obi-Wan twice, tied with Anakin, and held his own against Yoda.

    SO naturally their master would be the most powerful.

    So powerful that he could assume a beloved man in the Republic while the perceptive Jedi could not even sense him, could diminish the Jedi Order's ability to use the Force, could destroy 4 Jedi masters at the same time luring a new powerful apprentice, could throw giants pods with ease, and could make the most powerful Jedi give up and go into exile.

    Palpatine is just naturally powerful coz he is the only Sith Master at that time. If Palpatine is not the most powerful Sith Master in all the Sith history then at least he is the most brilliant Sith of all.

    Instead of confronting the thousands of Jedi up front like his predacessors did, he used his genius and attacked them from the inside where the Jedi served attacking them with their own laws and democracy.

    Hence, the Force had to make a Chosen One to balance out this kind of Sith Master.
  3. Bend_Ovi_Kenobi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2006
    So as far as the movies go, there is no contradiction in the movies for Sids having a kyber crystal.

    Therefore it is quite possible that he has one while fighting Yoda.
  4. DarthSerta Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 2005
    star 1
    The Revenge of the Sith was not Palpatine idea , it´s a concept used since Darth Bane , the jedi tought that the Sith were extinct for 1000 years , remember what Darth Maul said :" at last we ´ll have revenge".It´s a plan of the Sith , not Palpatine itself :" and once more the sith will rule the galaxy" . The jedi forgot how to fight force users long ago ,and when they were weak enough , the sith ( by chance Palpatine ) attacked in the shadows , starting a war , putting bounties on the jedi , only to reduce the jedi ranks.
  5. Bend_Ovi_Kenobi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2006
    The Jedi did not forget how to fight force users. They practise fighting each other constantly, they even have tournaments where padawans fight each other.
  6. r8hitman Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2004
    star 4
    I didnt see a lot of power.

    He has been using the darkside longer than anybody else that we see onscreen, so yeah, he will be pretty powerful.

    But I think if Darth Maul, Darth Tyrannus, or any other sith, had that kind of lengthy reign as "sith master" they would have been equally as powerful as Sidious.

    He didnt show me anything special in ROTS.

    (especially if the darkside is "supposed to be" more powerfulo_O )
  7. Bend_Ovi_Kenobi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2006
    Kicking the **** out of Yoda is 'nothing special'?!
  8. r8hitman Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2004
    star 4
    Is THAT what you saw???? :confused:

    [face_laugh]

    I'm sorry fella, but I didnt see Sidious "kicking the ****" out of anybody.[face_shame_on_you]

  9. DarthSerta Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 2005
    star 1
  10. Vaan_Karrde Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2005
    star 1
    That's the first time I heard about this, and I'm less inclined to believe it.

    If humans in the GFFA lived so long then it wouldn't have been so easy for the population's views of the Jedi to change the way they did. Some of the older generation needs to die off and the younger generation embraces the empire over the course of 30 years. If this lifespan theory is the case then it would have been more like... one year or something (compared to our lifespans).

    I do like the idea of Palpatine using the dark side to unnaturally extend his life though.
  11. r8hitman Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2004
    star 4
    Obi-Wan only "survived" his fights because the force had another plan for him......it was for him to introduce Luke to the ways of the force.

    That's why he seems to be so lucky all the time. Once he served his purpose he met the same fate as every other jedi.

    The force used him like a $2.00 ho.:p
  12. Bend_Ovi_Kenobi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2006
    Apologize all you want, Yoda got spanked by Sids, it's pretty obvious. All the posturing in the world on your part cannot change this fact. Sids was laughing at Yoda the entire time, while Yoda's face turned into a visage of horror when he realized that Sidious was so uber-powerful with the kyber crystal that he could not be defeated.

    why would you even post that inane garbage? What kind of brainless, simpleton besides yourself could asssert such an abomination?
  13. Bend_Ovi_Kenobi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2006
  14. Bend_Ovi_Kenobi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2006
    Double post

    Mods can delete if nessecary.
  15. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    This is official from Lucasbooks in regards to "The Dark Nest" Trilogy and the upcoming "Legacy Of The Force" book series. The Skywalkers are in their early sixties and Han's in his early 70's. But they're still quite active. Dooku was quite active for an eighty three year old. Anyway, the story is said to cover a number of years and that the characters will continue to age as a result.

    Most of the Jedi were killed during the Clone Wars and the Jedi Purge, which went to prove Palpatine's point. That the Jedi were becoming ineffective and complacent. Then it gets out that they tried to make a bid for power, which made it easier to think bad of them. Palpatine spun all kinds of propaganda (sp) to get the galaxy to turn. Han Solo didn't believe in the Jedi, because he was too young to really know about them. Luke had no clue because Owen sheltered him from knowing about that part of history.
  16. r8hitman Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2004
    star 4
    ________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    [face_laugh] [face_laugh] [face_laugh]

    Crack kills.

    Stay off of it.[face_laugh]
  17. JediMasterGaraceDane Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2005
    star 1
    Well have many points I'd like to say.....

    First, the Kyber Crystal, isn't that what Palpatine is wearing in ROTJ. I mean it seems hes even more powerful in ROTJ then in ROTS. He may have lost both his lightsabers but his true power lied in using the Dark Side of the Force. And his force lightening was very powerful.

    Secondly, everyone says that Yoda lost or lost big to Sidous in their duel in the Galactic Senate Building. Yoda and Sidious are the two most powerful force weilders in the galaxy at that time. According to a site I can't remember(it was very accurate and wasnt a EU site either), Yoda has less midiclorians then Anakin and Sidious. But with hundreds of years of training, Yoda was able to overcome that midiclorian count and be on par with Sidious. The two were equal in almost everyway Sids and little more with the force and yoda with the lightsaber skills. When Sids thought he had the upperhand, Yoda compinsated with pushing back the Senate Platform. Then Sids went all out with his force lightening something Yoda didnt expect. Again Sids thought he had the upper hand, Yoda came back again and blocked the force lightening and the two powers exploded. If that wouldnt have happened I believe that Yoda would have came out on topand defeated Sidious. He left because Clones were showing up. Thats the only reason he failed. To defeat Sids in a certain amount of time was his mission and he failed that its not because he totally failed.

    Third, Palpatine had it looked like at least hundred years of training to become the Sith he was at the time of the fall of the Republic. Sids also used very secret powers of the Sith and his master (who we think is Plaguis) was a very powerful force weilder as is Sids. They focused on that more then his skills with a lightsaber like Darth Maul and Tyranus did. This is what makes him so powerful. But also his midiclorian count which is unknown but we do know htat Anakin is more powerful then him and he makes it sound like yoda and him are pretty much on par. This is why he is powerful.
  18. farrellg Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2005
    star 4
    I'm sorry fella, but I didnt see Sidious "kicking the ****" out of anybody.

    He certainly kicked the #### out of Luke and Mace's posse.

    Lucas says the Darkside is stronger, thats why anakin knows he has to eventually go over to the darkside, to gain this power to save people.

    Bus as we know, Yoda tells us the dark side is not stronger. Just easier, more seductive, quicker to join you in a fight.


    Sometimes the author knows more about true events than the characters themselves. If Lucas says the dark side is stronger, than Yoda's contradicting view is wrong. I think the best example of the dark side's strength is when the Emperor electrocutes Luke. The Jedi don't have the ability to use force lightning.
  19. Achilles_of_Edmonton Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2005
    star 4
    I don't think it's that they don't have the ability but rather that they choose not to use it.

    Yoda obviously knows how to handle force lightning when he needs to though he chooses not to use it as a weapon. And that's really what you're talkig about. Weaponized force energy.

    Since it is against the Jedi philosophy to use the force as a weapon, they fight in a different manner. With more general waves of energy in it's natural form.

    But anyways, back to the topic at hand. I believe Palps became so powerful by a mixture of high midichlorian count and a long time to study the force while under a cloak of secrecy from the Jedi. All the time and patience in the world to carefully master all he could about the force. Plus he's just plain evil to the core.
  20. Rogue_Follower Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2003
    star 6
    There is no evidence that the Kyber crystal is in any of the movies. The only place its been mentioned is in Lucas' rough drafts, Splinter of the Mind's Eye, and a number of EU reference books.

    o_O
  21. sabarte Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2005
    star 4
    There is no evidence in the movies that humans age anything other than normally. Dooku fights well, but Dooku, like Yoda, is old and using the Force. Look at the way Yoda moves when he's fighting as opposed to when he's not. Palpatine thinks Dooku is old. Cliegg Lars dies, presumably of old age. The Lars age normally. Obi-Wan ages pretty fast. Mothma ages normally. Anakin, as evidenced by pre-Special Edition, would have aged normally. If there's any life extension in the galaxy, it's at the very end and doesn't stop the normal natural rot of a human body. And I seriously doubt that there's any at the time of the prequel trilogy.

    We don't see any humans older than Dooku and Jocasta Nu, except ROTJ Palpatine who also looks pretty decrepid. And Jocasta Nu's retired from active duty.
  22. JMN77 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2005
    star 3
  23. The_Chibi_Kiriyama Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2005
    star 1
    1) Yoda is 900 years old. He doesn't need to go through a 30 minute long grueling battle to realize that he can't defeat an opponent. The Sith had learned from the Sith Wars that rended the galaxy over a millenia ago, and Yoda had only their example to work upon. His overconfidence in believing that evil would always crumble upon itself blinded him to the need of training to combat it in the first place. After the few minutes of the battle and seeing how drained Yoda was from negating the Sith lightning Sidious let off it's not hard to believe he could forsee who would win the day in the long run. Let's just leave it at that before this turns into a big flame brawl.

    2) George Lucas stated in the Trilogy DVD bonus material that the Kyber Crystal was meant to show up in the original print of "The Star Wars". Here's the thing people- IT WAS NEVER USED. Palpatine wasn't hiding it under his robes and Vader didn't keep it hidden on his person. It was a concept, much like there were in all of the films, that never saw the light of day outside of a book that has never been admitted to being canon. Now if you want to get into the canon discussion another topic may be suitable, as the moderater proposed. That is no excuse to start making farfetched inferences. Let's be intelligent in our observations.
  24. r8hitman Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2004
    star 4
    No I dont believe that....I think the jedi have the "ability" to use force lightning, they just dont do it. That's an aggressive/torturing type of power...I cant see a jedi using that in battle.

    You know the jedi know how to use it. How did Yoda learn how to defend against it if he had never seen it before, and the sith were believed to be extinct, so who did he master his "lightning defense" against?o_O


    And as far as the darkside being more powerful, Lucas said the darkside is more powerful but he also said it's not(Yoda in ESB) so who knows what to believe in this case.:confused:

    (And yes, if Yoda said it in ESB then basically Lucas said it.....Whatever comes out of Yoda's mouth is from Lucas' head.)
  25. mjerome3 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2000
    star 6
    Palpatine's hate defintely made him strong in the dark side of the Force. If his hate alone could trigger the aura of evil where the dark side of the Force is concerned then that alone would make him powerful. After all, it's the dark side we're talking about. Palpatine told Anakin that he had to be strong enough with the dark side in order to save Padme so being strong with the dark side would mean giving in to his immediate hatred for the Jedi to assist in triggering the power that he orginally had which would in turn make him far stronger and powerful.
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