CT How did Vader knew that Luke is his son?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by TheRevanchist, Dec 13, 2012.

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  1. TheDarkSyde Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 2013
    By true story Vader only knows that a rebel with force strength blew up the death star When he talks to the emporer in Empire Strikes back on the holo thing the emporer reveals that the pilots name is Skywalker and that it is the son of Anakin. Thats the first time we know Vader knows who Luke is.
  2. janstett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2004
    star 3
    Nope, rethink it.

    When the probe droid finds the generator on Hoth, Vader says, "The Rebels are there, and I'm sure Skywalker is with them!"


    So, do you believe he doesn't know who he's looking for yet? He's hunting for Luke.

    Vader already knows by then, he is lying to the Emperor. Because he's trying to make Luke his secret apprentice so he can kill the Emperor and take his place. The Emperor has just figured out that it is Luke Skywalker and ruins Vader's plans with the hologram call, but Vader already knows and has to play dumb.

    Also the title crawl says the following which also confirms Vader already knows who he is looking for...

    "The evil lord Darth Vader,
    obsessed with finding young Skywalker, has dispatched
    thousands of remote probes into
    the far reaches of space...."
    Last edited by janstett, Mar 2, 2013
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  3. TheDarkSyde Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 2013
    Ok
  4. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    I agree with the stance that Vader knows who Luke is at the beginning of Empire. It's the motivation behind being obsessed with finding him.
    rumsmuggler likes this.
  5. Darth_Kiryan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2009
    star 4
    how does the opening crawl fit into this?

    he obviously knew who Luke was to a certain point
    Last edited by Darth_Kiryan, Mar 2, 2013
  6. FatSmel Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 23, 2012
    star 3
    He knew Luke's name. He knew he was strong in the force. He didn't know that he was a relation though.
    You could assume Vader is so obsessed with finding him because Luke blew up the death star and (from a certain point of view) bested Vader himself in combat.
    Also the fact that they have the same name probably made him curious.

    I don't agree that Vader knew prior to the Emperor's holo-transmission, or that he was lying to the Emperor about that at that point it time.
  7. rumsmuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
    He did know. That's why he was so hellbent on finding him before the Emperor got wise.
  8. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4

    Yes he did. Vader used the Skywalker name when he ordered Admiral Ozzel to send the fleet to the Hoth system in the first 30-40 minutes of ESB.
  9. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    He knew the Rebel was Skywalker- that doesn't mean he knew the precise nature of the Rebel's relation to himself. The Rise & Fall of Darth Vader takes the approach that the Emperor's statement did indeed come as a shock to him.
  10. Darth_Zandalor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2009
    star 4
    Because the DVD edition had to have the Emperor *tell* him, since audiences are stupid right? How many people have the last name Skywalker?
  11. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Apparently Lucas said it wasn't that uncommon a name.

    In TRaFoDV, Vader came to the conclusion that there was probably some connection- but he assumed that when Padme died, the baby died with her- and was thinking that maybe "Luke" was related in some other way.
  12. rumsmuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
    A guy named Skywalker who is strong in the force and is a known associate of Kenobi makes it pretty obvious. It's best to ignore the current Vader/Emperor conversation that on the latest DVD/ blu ray. It seems to be confusing some folks.
    Last edited by rumsmuggler, Mar 4, 2013
    Klingon Padawan likes this.
  13. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Tie-in writers like Ryder Windham included?
  14. rumsmuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
    Depends on how sensible the information is. Vader would have to be brain dead to not realize that Skywalker, who came on a ship from Tatooine with Kenobi is his son. He also had Owen and Beru killed in his hunt for the droids, but that's neither here nor there.
    Last edited by rumsmuggler, Mar 5, 2013
  15. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    He even sends them a message (in the same novel) before killing them

    "Tell the Larses they seem to have trouble keeping droids on their property. Then extend the same courtesy you showed the Jawas."

    I don't think that he was supposed to be being portrayed as brainless- merely unwilling to contemplate the possibility that Padme gave birth before she died.
  16. Klingon Padawan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2013
    star 1
    I think Vader suspected a family relation beforehand, but when the Emperor told him, it was confirmed to him that Luke was his son. As for how the Emperor know, the answer is probably the Force.
  17. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    That's how The Rise & Fall of Darth Vader has it, anyway.
  18. FatSmel Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 23, 2012
    star 3
    Assumptions.

    Whether or not it was cleared up in later sources, I can't help but think that Vader was ignorant of the fact, or at least not entirely sure, until the Emperor's call.
    The "How is that possible???" just doesn't seem like it was faked.

    I think at the time, that it was intended that Vader did not know.
    Like I said, it may have changed now with later sources deciding to go a different way.
  19. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    It must be noted that this line did not appear until the DVD era.

    I'd say a case can be made the other way round- that when the film first came out, the idea was that Vader knew- and when it was revised, the idea that Vader did not know, first gained traction, and later sources like the aforementioned Rise & Fall, ran with it.

    I know Splinter of the Mind's Eye, written pre-ESB, had Vader address Luke as "Skywalker" and even make reference to him being a "farmboy from Tatooine". And I think Marvel Star Wars may have had one or more face to face meetings as well, with him addressed as Skywalker.

    Vader knows Luke's background- however, the missing link- Luke's father, may not have been common knowledge enough to spread to Vader- Blue Leader in the ANH book knows Luke's father is Anakin, but those lines were cut from the movie as I recall.
  20. janstett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2004
    star 3
    I think Vader knew more than your theory gives him credit for.

    Before he even meets Luke at Bespin, he knows the following:
    • The young rebel was on board the Millenium Falcon, which departed from Tattooine.
    • He was traveling with Obi-Wan Kenobi
    I always thought it was odd that Vader says multiple times "Obi-Wan has taught you well" when Luke knew Obi-Wan for all of 5 seconds. Obviously Vader made the connection and jumped to the conclusion that Obi-Wan had been training Luke the entire time since childhood.

    He also says in the dialog with the Emperor in ESB "he's just a boy, Obi-Wan can no longer help him". Hmm, he seems to already know who Luke is, and that he was helped by Obi-Wan. Doesn't seem to be a surprise at all.

    Also the "how... is that possible?" line is a very recent addition. In the original Emperor dialogue the subject of parentage is first brought up with the line, "The son of Skywalker must not become a Jedi". To which there is literally no reaction, Vader moves on to, "If he could be turned...".

    If Vader is literally just finding out about him, how does he know his age and his association with Obi-Wan? Let alone that he already referenced him by name prior to the Battle of Hoth.

    Also I will reiterate two crucial pieces of information we are given before the Emperor scene:
    • Vader is looking for young Skywalker in the title crawl, written by George Lucas to the audience. The screenwriter is telling us Vader knows who Luke is. You don't believe it straight from the horse's mouth?
    • When the probe droid finds the generator on Hoth, Vader says "The rebels are there, and I'm sure Skywalker is with them".
    If Vader is surpised by the Emperor's news, why not only is he not genuinely shocked by it, but then why does he offer details about him (i.e. he's just a boy, and Obi-Wan can no longer help him)? He seems to know an awful lot about someone he just found out about.

    Vader gives away his plan in the confrontation on Bespin. Join me and destroy the emperor and we can rule as father and son.

    But wait, that's not what the Emperor told Vader to do, is it?

    Guess what, that was Vader's real plan in the first place. That is why he is "obsessed with finding Young Skywalker" in the title crawl.
    Last edited by janstett, Mar 7, 2013
  21. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    In the EU, Vader does research on Luke- and meets him on more than one occasion prior to ESB.
  22. Klingon Padawan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2013
    star 1
    They dueled on Mimban, a jungle planet. Interestingly enough, Leia was also there and she dueled Vader too.
  23. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Yup. Of the EU events that the book The Rise & Fall of Darth Vader recaps- that's the biggest. Most receive only a couple of lines- that receives several pages.

    It's interesting to see events from Vader's point of view- especially the duels.
  24. Sir Cronal Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2013
    I remember this was all explained in Vader's Quest.
  25. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Not really. Vader finds out in that, that the guy who destroyed the Death Star is "Skywalker" but he doesn't conclude, for certain, that Skywalker is "The son of Anakin".
    Sir Cronal likes this.
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