Lit How do you feel/what are going to do when 'the new canon/EU' hits the shelves?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Darth_Calgmoth, Feb 25, 2014.

  1. jacktherack Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2008
    star 4

    How will movies set at least a decade after Rotj affect something that happens 40 years prior? The pre Rotj eu will be no less safe then it has always been. There may be a few retcons after rebels but that's pretty much it.
  2. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    The ancient Sith Era 25,000 up to 1,000 BBY is not safe. Sorry. Not buying it. That era will get trashed to make movies about armies of Jedi and Sith waging war on each other.
  3. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    I wouldn't worry about the films exploring other eras, at least for a while. They're likely going to want synergy similar to what Marvel is doing, so the spin-off films will be about peripheral characters from the saga.
  4. Jango_Fett21 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2002
    star 3
    Even if Lucasfilm does eventually start to redefine the Canon history of the Star Wars universe, it will have no bearing on what already exists insofar as tie-in material is concerned.

    If I were to make a prediction as far as the future of SW-related literature, comics, etc. is concerned, I would say that it will start being handled the way the Star Trek franchise's tie-in material is, and that we will start seeing a wider variety of stories being told, some of which conform to the existing continuity of the 'EU' and some of which do not, just as we have and do with Star Trek literature.

    I also think we will start seeing new continuities established insofar as the comics are concerned, which, again would be in line with what we see from the Star Trek franchise.
    Last edited by Jango_Fett21, Feb 26, 2014
  5. DarthStymi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2002
    star 3
    To say Star Wars's current cannon has continuity is a stretch. You can shoehorn things to fit, sure, but eventually, if a coherent continuity is your thing (as it is for many), it eventually comes down to already making judgments about what to include and exclude.

    This is more of the same, really. (Although, admittedly, a large difference in degree.)

    I was not so big on the Disney PT news for a while specifically due to what it will most likely mean to most post-ROTJ EU. But, I've warmed up to it. I will continue to shoehorn, somehow. But what it really boils down to is we are getting more Star Wars and creating more Star Wars fans. My sons know and love Star Wars specifically because of The Clone Wars. And now I will be able to take them to new Star Wars movies! Old school Star Wars fan geek dream!

    But also, if I'm honest with myself, I will continue buying and reading the books and comics because I just can't not. I want to see what happens next

    I'm a loyalist fan that way (life long Cubs fan too...to give you a sense of context).

    So all the rest of you planning to bail...hate to break it to you, but you're all fair weather fans [face_whistling](don't hate me because I'm right.)
  6. DarthBarrister Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 16, 2014
    star 1
    Agreed. No way I can bail, and my obsessed son will be 4 when the movie comes out next year. I cannot wait to go with him. Like I said, the only concern I have is that, realizing that I can get them all on Kindle, I won't be able to obtain all the books before Disney stops printing them, which I fully expect.
  7. HEDGESMFG Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2010
    star 3
    Were Pablo's tweets this recent, or has something new popped up?

    In all seriousness though, the idea that nothing outside of the films and TCW is canon is more significant than you think, as it will probably stop the publication of a lot of the older material, support of the older games, and even the publication of Essential Atlas style sourcebooks that attempt to take as much as possible into account. In effect, we may well end up with a far more limited galaxy that can be casually rebooted at any time. It also puts into question the need to read any new material outside since it's "not really canon anyway". Frankly, I doubt Disney will allow even half of the publications the franchise has had even in 2013 once they fully clamp down to support their new onscreen material. They tend to keep a very tight leash on things, and that limits the crativity of many great authors to only tie-ins of the most direct nature to their future stories... but ones that can ignore old continuity whenever they please, unlike before (if all non-screen stuff is noncanon of course).

    Sure, there will be a few stories so well developed that they're worth viewing, and no doubt many EU elements will survive or will dare I say be needed to make sense of the universe, but still.

    Honestly, the PT era is far worse off without the EU to back it up. By cutting it out entirely, you lose a 'lot' of good stories that really help flesh out the characters, most with only minor contradictions. The biggest sources of continuity headaches or frankly just plain lousy ideas tended to come from the post ROTJ era. The PT era material was designed and 'meant' to complement the films as they came out, just as the "new" EU will be for the ST. Yet who knows when that will be rendered noncanon... and heck, that's assuming it even was in the first place.

    What I will miss is not necessarily the eras by themselves as their stories still fit, it is that single concentrated effort to unify it all as one big, occasionally crazy galaxy. If there is no need to make it fit anymore because nothing is canon, the quality of stories will lose more than they will gain without consistency and restraint. Furthermore, I suspect many previous EU authors will be part of the past... no longer brought around as much, and so we lose many of their contributions too. Disney doesn't necessarily want anyone who is involved with this prebuyout stuff around.

    Critics of the EU will also no doubt parade this around endlessly, encouraging anything but the films to be forgotten, for no other reason than the fact that the old EU was intimidating, or they hadn't bothered to 'try' any of it. A fanon where people pick and choose without any sort of guideline leads to far less coherency in even public opinion, diluting that suspension of disbelief of a larger galaxy. An outsider will see those of us who like the old stories as sillier than ever before (not that I mind how others view me on such trivial things, but again, there's a psychological threshold we're crossing here.)

    I suppose the only comfort I can take in all this is that, just about all ongoing story arcs are being wrapped up in some form... so one could say the "old canon" at least ended in a complete package of sorts that one can do a massive read-through of, with a few fanon assumptions.

    Hopefully this is all hyperbole and at the end of the day everything turns out "not quite so dead" as people are trumping it to sound.
    Last edited by HEDGESMFG, Feb 27, 2014
  8. HEDGESMFG Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2010
    star 3
    Also... one last point, if Leland and Pablo came forward with a new and 'detailed' timeline that only decanonized 'select' stories (All adult novels from Shadows of the Empire and earlier are still canon, minus so and so and so and so, or the thrawn trilogy is canon, but the Jedi Price series isn't), that'd be far more acceptable. Not ideal, but it'd be nice to see an actual concentrated effort to make sense of the universe and take 'some' of the history into account.

    Let it be known. I am traveling to SDCC this year again. If Leland, Pablo, or anyone else appears there and we 'still' don't have an official answer, I will get one. If by no other means than by asking if "Korriban" still exists.
    EECHUUTA likes this.
  9. Jango_Fett21 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2002
    star 3

    Based on my own understanding of how tie-in material works in general, your assessment of things is hyperbolic in the extreme. Even if the EU as it exists is eventually phased out in terms of publication/circulation and new Canon is created, the EU will still have relevance as tie-in material.

    The idea that the EU's relevance is predicated on its Canonicity is, to be quite frank, a fallacy. I say this based on my own personal understanding of what the general function of tie-in material is and my conversations with individuals who have great experience working on tie-in material for various properties , not on any hatred of the EU or its contents.
    Last edited by Jango_Fett21, Feb 27, 2014
  10. HEDGESMFG Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2010
    star 3
    Honestly, I'm not expecting a worse case scenario... but you may have to forgive my cynicism after Disney has effectively done 'almost' everything I haven't wanted them to do since the buyout.

    Under George and Clone Wars, I shared the sentiment that most of these contradictions were no big deal. Hardly even worth flinching at as a source book would come along as rationalize the problems in some clever way. Those who didn't like this would ignore it and stick with what they knew, while the rest of us chuckled at the occaisionally clever solutions. I find that type of thing to be unlike to continue if and only if they are truly adapting a Star Trek like canon for extra material. It's one thing when other properties take that stance. It's another thing when a long established property suddenly adapts that stance with very little prior warning.

    But I do agree I talk only of the more extreme scenarios. But then again, I never imaged the buyout from Disney would lead to the cancellation of TCW, 1313, loss of Dark Horse, ending of the 3D releases, and numerous other unwarranted changes.
  11. Darth_Calgmoth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2006
    star 2
    I'm not sure how 'tie-in' stuff can be compared all that well to the SW EU. Yes, there were tie-in novels to all the PT movies, and yes, those did make much more sense out of the movies than the movies itself (which is a very bad sign for the quality and the conceptions of the PT in itself - good fiction does not need to be 'explained' in other fictional media), but the core of the EU was about telling new stories in the established universe.

    If the 'new EU' would mostly consist of 'tie-in' stuff into new movies, it would be no EU at all. It would be just merchandise stuff accompanying the release of the new movies.
    LelalMekha and JediKnight75 like this.
  12. JediKnight75 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2011
    star 2
    That's why I'm sure Hand of Thrawn will be safe. Up until that point the Solo kids were still very young and only used as a of devise. The movies could do anything with them and it would fit with thei appearances during the Bantam run. Although, I'm still maintaining hope that they will keep the NJO and just change the personalities, and possibly names (it's not unheard pf,it happened with Boba Fett), of the Solo children. They could just say that the NJO somehow ambiguously fits into canon and then provide no further explanation. I'd actually be happy with that scenario. I doubt that they'd do that, but it would be nice.
  13. BoromirsFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2010
    star 4
    I will continue following star wars even if they mangle the EU. I will eventually finish reading the books of the old continuity before disney, and then I will detach myself.

    The only future star wars products I will probably buy are DVDs/blu rays and videogames.

    I'm just not going to emotionally invest myself into an EU 2.0. I'll finish EU 1.0 and just stick to the main stuff.
  14. Jango_Fett21 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2002
    star 3

    The EU and all of its current contents IS tie-in material; the only difference between it and the tie-in material from other franchises is that, up until now, the EU was considered to have a certain level of impact on the Canon of the Star Wars franchise. That particular little caveat has now been removed, but it does not alter the EU as it exists in any significant way or alter its relevance.
  15. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Nope, not when you start looking at stuff like DotJ - to term that tie-in is really stretching it!
  16. JediKnight75 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2011
    star 2
    That goes for everything in the Old Republic era. I'd even add the Legacy comics, while the plot was based on both trilogies there was enough different to make it stand on its own. I'd also, label the NJO as in between tie in and not.
  17. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    "Tie-in" to me, as a definition, relates to the plot of the films and that's it.

    What has been done with the EU goes way beyond this - I wouldn't classify the adventures of Rogue Squadron post-films as tie-in as to what are they tying into? There isn't anything!
  18. Jango_Fett21 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2002
    star 3
  19. BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    To be fair, they are the "further adventures of Wedge Antillies and the other folk in those X-Wings that we saw in ROTJ". That's still tied into the movies, same with anything when you keep using movie characters and their continuing adventures. Dawn/KOTR/Legacy I would qualify as spin-offs, certainly not direct tie-ins. KOTR videogame success generally is what led to expanding these far-flung historical Star Wars aspects where the authors can go crazy and do whatever they want. It was there in "Tales of the Jedi" but KOTR built off that and then it's become it's own spin-off branch of the Star Wars franchise, not direct movie tie-ins which is what I would consider anything that had movie characters running around and talking and so forth.
  20. Jango_Fett21 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2002
    star 3
    The Star Wars franchise/brand.
  21. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    This thread is confusing me now.
    LawgSkrak and Force Smuggler like this.
  22. Obi-Wan21 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2002
    star 4
    The EU has been fractured since the Prequels and the Clone Wars series. It's been delusions that kept the idea of a cohesive universe alive. It simply doesn't exist. From Ashoka to MANY other alterations, the canon is broken as is. Personally, I say dump it all out the trash chute before making the jump to lightspeed. Beyond Zahn's novels the post-ROTJ canon is an absolute mess of poor writing and ill conceived ideas. Debate amongst yourselves the quality of the PT and TCW, I love 'em. But it doesn't affect my opinion on the matter.

    I'll purchase and enjoy the books that intrigue me, as I've always done.
    Last edited by Obi-Wan21, Feb 27, 2014
  23. Darth__Syphilis Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2010
    star 1
    Suppose I'll go on the record here: I don't intend on spending any money on the new EU. The first sequel film and new books have to blow me away to convince me that erasing all the stuff that I've invested in is a good idea, and I just don't see that happening. At first I was angry that we're getting yet another break in continuity (even larger than The Clone Wars), but now I'm just grateful that we had so many years of great stories, and they're not leaving my bookshelf any time soon. One final novel covering the end of the original canon would be much appreciated, but I'm not holding my breath.
    Starkeiller and Force Smuggler like this.
  24. VanishingReality Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2013
    star 3
    I'm going to buy it, put it on an alter, and worship it but only on the condition that Vader is in it.
    In other words, exactly what I do with the old EU. [face_plain]
  25. HEDGESMFG Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2010
    star 3
    I'm going to take a step back from the chaos and just enjoy the end of TCW as best I can, depite it being responsible for so much of this mess. I remain more skeptical about Rebels and especially the ST, but once this is all over, I'll probably just finish my little timeline project and take a long break from all this... enjoying the last of Dark Horse's output while I can. Perhaps in the end all of this will be no big deal, and we'll see minimal changes and at worst a handful of decanonized stories, or perhaps it'll kill my interest in the franchise.

    I guess, at least, I'm grateful DH got the chance to wrap up most of their storylines in some form. If the EU as we know it truly 'does' end, I can live with Legacy v2, Crucible, Dark Times, and yes even the Maul comic capping off this era of lucasarts publishing. The end result is pretty messy in some ways as is, but not too bad of a story from start to end.

    But for now, I'm done here. Enough with the canon panic.
    Last edited by HEDGESMFG, Feb 27, 2014