Lit How do you prefer your SW politicians and Jedi?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by The Man Who Sold the Moon, Nov 19, 2012.

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What kind of politicians do you want in SW and how should the Jedi relate to them?

This poll will close on Aug 16, 2015 at 5:48 PM.
Thieves and liars and the Jedi should allign with them regardlessWhat kind of politicians do you wan 2 vote(s) 7.1%
Honest upstanding public servants and the Jedi should allign with them 10 vote(s) 35.7%
Scumbags and the Jedi should turn their back on them and help the galaxy without helping the Senate 4 vote(s) 14.3%
Upstanding politicians but the Jedi should not take orders from the Senate regardless 12 vote(s) 42.9%
  1. The Man Who Sold the Moon Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2012
    star 1
    Let's face it the politicians in SW are for the most part scum? Should this change? Can we accept the Jedi serving and utterly corrupt Republic? Would moral upstanding Jedi Knights not corrupted by the dark side even serve a corrupt senate? Is the Old Republic an Empire? Do they have their own version of the IMF? Is their version of the IMF friendly to developing sectors/worlds or they tie their development with debt payments? We all know that megacorps have a big pull in the senate. Did the senate ever aproved of coups outside of Republic borders in order to help some megacorps secure resources?
    Do the Core Worlds sabotage other regions by stirring civil wars, denying technology, currency mapnipulations in order to stay the most developed region in the galaxy?

    The poll does not have to do with anything with some of my questions but i would ask them regardless.
  2. GrandAdmiralJello Emperor: Community & Lit

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 10
    I will hear no ill words spoken about the Core.
    Cronal, Zorrixor and thesevegetables like this.
  3. thesevegetables Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2012
    star 4
    The Republic wasn't at its prime but was in no way Totally Corrupt. There's bad things and good things. A lot of good things.
  4. rumsmuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
    Would you consider Leia to be part scum then?
  5. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    There should be politicians of all kinds, upstanding, liars, thieves, ect. Jedi however should operate outside the governement.
  6. darthscott3457 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2007
    star 3
    They should permanently ban them, give all the power to the nobles of the Core or other local goverments and keep the Republic as a loose union of planets
  7. thesevegetables Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2012
    star 4
    BAN POLITICIANS?
  8. GrandAdmiralJello Emperor: Community & Lit

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 10
    No.
  9. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    Cause a confederacy always works best. The central government says, we need soldiers, the planets/states say no thanks, we don't need to. Then the threat grows and wins...

    Politcians are a necessary evil. The senator from Kashykk has always been an ally of the Jedi.
  10. Mechalich Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2010
    star 4
    It is often difficult to grasp the structure of the Republic at any particular period in its history, never mind the whole 25,000 years. We actually have more information about how the Empire was assembled and run than we really do about the Old or New Republics. We have very little understanding of regional or sector level politics of any kind, and only a small number of snapshots regarding planetary governments, though it's enough to say they display mind-boggling variations.

    The central difficulty of the Republic is, to quote The Essential Atlas: 'Starve the center and you reap anarchy. Feed the center and you breed tyranny. The problem is obvius to every man. A solution has been revealed to no man.' - Sayings of Uueg Tching

    The government of the galaxy seems to swing on a pendulum from one extreme to the next, with the principle representatives of the light and dark sides of the Force, the Jedi and Sith, choosing sides accordingly, though not always the same side.

    My personal vision of a practical government of the Star Wars galaxy is found in the final chapter of my fanfiction novella Ashes of Empire, but it is not a particularly moral viewpoint. I don't think any two people would precisely agree on the ideal choice anyway.

    With regards to the Jedi though, I think the Jedi should, for both the benefit of the state and the Jedi Order, be struck from state sponsorship. The Jedi Order is a religious institution and separation of church and state is critical for a functioning government. The Jedi should be a private organization responsible for its own funding and Jedi Knights should have no more privledges than the average citizen unless expressly granted them by existing non-Jedi authorities on a mission by mission basis.
  11. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    Agree with the Church and State thing. However if a Jedi wants to serve in the military, then what? Is the government allowed to use the Force user as an asset, so long as the Jedi does not feel that what the military orders it to do is dark sided?

    Have id tags that list religion as New Jedi Order
  12. Skaddix Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2012
    star 4
    I want a mix on the senate side. Also some competency.
  13. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
  14. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    I've never liked seeing the worst side of politics on the good guys' side, so I'd like all the politicians on the good side to be upstanding public servants. Of course, the Jedi would work well with them.

    The bad guys can be as Machiavellian as they want.
    Jedi Ben likes this.
  15. Mechalich Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2010
    star 4
    This is an interesting question, but upon a bit of reflection, I think it is largely self-answering. If the Jedi are merely private citizens the military doesn't have to accord them special treatment - though they would obviously utilize their skills in high-powered commando setups for the most part. So long as Jedi don't rise to senior leadership they are bound by military convention and more importantly military discipline. Even the most benign military setup is going to result in orders that occasionally violate a Jedi moral code (begining with just about anything invovling the words 'collateral damage'). So long as the military retains the advantage, it can control Jedi excesses. That does mean unleashing the full scope of disciplinary measures up to and including death, when Jedi put the Force in front of their orders. That would require a few strong-willed and strong-stomached commanders to establish the key precedents, but it would work out. Most Jedi would subsequently avoid military service on a permanent (as opposed to consulting) basis, and those who did join up would do so with the knowledge that they might be forced to choose between the Force and their orders, and perhaps be willing to sacrifice themselves by doing so.
  16. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    I do not see the problem. If a Jedi chooses to serve and goes through the same training as officers or special forces or pilots. They will rise through the ranks. It would provide them additional training the Jedi Order would otherwise not give, after a tour of duty, they could get out with contacts made within the military allowing for the said Jedi to serve as a bridge between the military and a religious order that sometimes seems as though it loves peave far too much
  17. The Man Who Sold the Moon Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2012
    star 1
    How does nobility even exist? They should not be able to compete with the new blood without restrictive laws that restric the activities of non-nobles.
  18. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    I agree, but its hard to view it that way. The government and the Jedi were joined at the hip. Everything from funding, to Jedi friendly laws(like the one that gives Jedi the legal right to take Force sensetive children from their parents) go to support the Jedi. Heck, at one point the Jedi were the political leaders of the Republic even.

    Its very much a mutual admiration society despite any Jedi claims on the subject. The best thing that Luke ever did was removing his Order from the temptations of Corucant.
  19. MercenaryAce Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2005
    star 5
    It isn't like their aren't powerful families in capitalist societies. So long as they invest their wealth well and educate their children, nobles would have a lot of advantages over any competition.

    And judging by Baron Tagge and others, a lot of Star Wars nobles are also CEOs.
  20. Darth_Kiryan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2009
    star 4
    because, obviously, those nobles would not then be politicians....i fail to see the difference.
  21. Ulicus Lit'ari

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2005
    star 6
    How do I prefer my SW politicians and Jedi?

    Well done.
    Zeta1127, Havac, Cronal and 1 other person like this.
  22. vypernight Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 2
    I'd just like to see one complete series where the Alliance leader not only is honest and moral, but stays secure during the entire series. I know we need conflict, but the gov't has collapsed in EVERY single series since NJO!

    Also, I'd like to see a more united Jedi order. The old order would survive just fine if Yado and/or Mace were to suddenly drop dead. The new order on the other hand . . . gets into lightsaber fights over the shade of brown of their cloaks if Luke so much as goes to the bathroom! Even in FOTJ, which was to prove the order could survive without Luke, we get one master killing another and no one questioning it.
    KamSolusar likes this.
  23. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    Short answer, Politicians silent and a good deal more wise; Jedi a great deal more responsive to Freedom and Justice.

    My view of the Jedi is that they actually should be a part of the official Republic setup.

    I don't see the Church/State model as having overmuch relevance (certainly post-Ruusan) as the Jedi/Force seems to be as much a philosophy and/or way of life as it is a religion - are there any Jedi/Force churches that groups of the greater Galactic community belong to or worship at?

    In the UK (at least) there is a concept called the "separation of Powers", regulating the powers of the Government, Legislature and Judiciary (sometimes called the 'Estates' - particularly when including the Media; the 'Fourth Estate). The Government, for instance, cannot directly interfere with cases going through the Courts or seek to influence any member of the Judiciary; except by winning over a majority the Legislature to pass new or ammemded Laws.

    As I envision it, the Jedi should either be condidered an arm of the Judiciary or (probably better) as a separate 'Estate' ranked as of equal status with the Judiciary.

    Let's face it, who could (or on two recent occasions, did) take down a Sith that had come into power by manipulating the system, other than a Jedi?

    Also, who else but the Jedi had the capability and independence to remove Daala without major bloodshed? Not in revenge (as someone posted elsewhere) for actions directed at the Jedi, but for a flagrant abuse of power in sending Mandalorians to crush an entirely peaceful protest by the Octussi - and not insisting that they should be led by someone other than a self-demonstrated psycotic murderer. By that action, which led to a massacre, Daala had (IMO) clearly demonstrated her unfitness to govern.

    Regarding Military Jedi and the death-penalty - the problem lies in keeping the sentenced Jedi in custody, if he or she doesn't want to be confined!
  24. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    I prefer extra crispy personally.
    Ulicus and Cronal like this.
  25. Cronal Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2009
    star 4
    Bad corrupt politician story arcs do get a bit repetitive nowadays. I mean, there have been problems with the NR/GA's ruling body since what... Black Fleet Crisis? Really, I think Dark Nest Trilogy had a good story arc where it was not about bad politicians or leaders but rather reaching a point where bad things can happen due to complications from both ends. Back then, Omas wasn't trying to be a jerk but he was stuck in a bad position between Jedi and the Chiss over the Mykyr team becoming Joiners. Their continued support of the Killiks meant the Chiss blamed the GA and Omas was in the position where he had to ask whether the Jedi served the GA or acted on their own whims. And there are problems with both approaches... if they are with the GA then do they serve the GA above the Force? Plus, such proximity to the government especially in recent material can be bad and lead to arrests or even a purge depending on who gets in charge. And if they are not part of the GA but act on the Force, won't they be isolating themselves and allowing the GA to go down wrong paths? Not only that, they would be cutting themsleves off from funding and support.

    Personally, I always wanted to see in recent stuff for the NJO to be given full control of Jedi worlds and allow them to be a bit more independent. There have been loads of problems recently with Daala and anti-Jedi sentiment that I feel the Jedi should be allowed to reclaim more ancient worlds like Tython and Illum. The Order should be becoming as grand as the old one with multiple temples and smaller enclaves. Oh, and Praxeum ships! Unlikely to happen since I think their numbers are insufficient to handle control of such worlds but I feel more separation might be good.

    But anyway, I think perhaps staying away from corrupt politician arcs might be a good place for the EU right now. Can't get more corrupt then having Daala in charge and having a conspiracy to create a new empire amongst the GAs midst and of course having some eldtrich abomination becoming Chief of State...
    Last edited by Cronal, Nov 22, 2012