How do you view DOTF?

How do *you* consider DOTF and justify its appearance in the films? I've heard several theories:

a) DOTF is a theme expressing the tragic clash between Good and Evil (eg. Jedi vs. Sith)

b) DOTF functions as a descent motif, juxtaposing Anakin's heroic journey and eventual fall

c) DOTF was written for pacing and tension purposes only, and has no allegorical suggestion

d) a and b

e) Other various views

Any thoughts? This may seem obvious, but nearly everyone I speak with has a different point of view. I'd be interested in seeing your own take (Personally, I go with b; for my thoughts on the matter, I'll post a later reply.). Do explain why you think as you do!

 

I think that it is inserted at the critical point of the movie, where it is decided whether good or evil will prevail. Such as the duel in tPM, or Anakin's ride to the Tuskens in AotC. These are points of decision.

 

Actually, I'd say a and c. Let me explain:

a. The theme is a clash/struggle between good & evil, THE most basic theme of Star Wars.

b. Well, since the initial (prequels) result of this clash is the fall of Anakin, this in effect can be seen as descent. But Anakin's journey is tragic.
Thematically, I'd say that Anakin's, the Jedi's & the Republic's descent is marked by the Emperor's Theme & Imperial March. (Witness: Confession Scene.)

c. DOTF was written for pacing & tension, to match the action, but not solely for that purpose.

 

I would say a mix between a and b. I feel like it is a theme that is allegorical of the larger struggle between the forces, but is used to show that most of that battle is waged internally. I really liked the shift from an actual fight to anakin's speeding off... for me it really helped me to get drawn into anakin's character. I am glad that they didn't use it in the Dooku fight, because I think that it would have cheapened the shift, and its absense shows that the true battle of this movie is not between sith and jedi, but solely within Anakin.

 

Neat thoughts, all.

Anakin's journey is tragic.

Is it really? I've always considered Anakin an epic hero -- tragic figures always tend to die in exile or end up in terrible situations (Oedipus, for example, has his eyes gouged; Jason loses his children and good name) -- and Anakin both redeems himself and fufills ancient prophecy. To me, he's the hero gone backwards -- or, more allegorically, a hero with a very long descent motif (twenty years as Vader).

*sighs* Guess that explains why I tend to go with b. I also see c though, too, just because the tempo of DOTF indeed plays an enormous role in onscreen tension (i.e. the role of film music).

 

Well, if you just take the PT, Anakin's journey is tragic.

Maybe a better way to say it is that Anakin is a tragic figure who is redeemed by Luke, who I consider the real hero of the saga.

But I like your rationale, Sil.

 

One word: overrated

 

Would you mind expounding on that view, George?

 

Getting back on topic, I guess I'd say that Anakin's descent shows that victory of the dark side in the battle "in the head" as well as the obvious one "most dread". Hence, I think that, thematically, the Emperor's Theme & Imperial March serve that purpose, while DOTF serves the struggle where the good side still holds sway.

 

I would say a. In TPM DotF is used for an external clash between good and evil when the Jedi battle the Sith. In AotC it is used for Anakin's internal battle between good and evil. In both cases, a "duel of the fates." It also is good for pacing/tension.

 

b) DOTF functions as a descent motif, juxtaposing Anakin's heroic journey and eventual fall

it's kinda like a, but I think it is more b because we'll see in Episode III...

I love how its used in AOTC though, just genius in that one scene.

 

Ken:

Hence, I think that, thematically, the Emperor's Theme & Imperial March serve that purpose, while DOTF serves the struggle where the good side still holds sway.

Excellent point. I never have looked at it like that before. [face_shocked]

Jeff: Cool. I pretty much can agree with that.

SoLo: I like it too, but Williams has stated that the only reason he put it there was for pacing/tension. I personally think it's very allegorical, however, so I'm certain he was just pulling the reporter's leg...

 

When I say "overrated" I am certainly NOT saying that DOTF is bad. Let me say that it is something that only the genuis that John Williams is could create. But to hear people talk about it on these forms, you would think that they had never herd Star Wars music before. I have to go with a. I mean just look at the name: Duel of the Fates. Anyway, thats my take.

 

I always "herd" my SW music into my car before a long drive....

 

None; IMO, it's Evil triumphing over good. It's name is Duel of the Fates, after all. It's put in at a point of decision, granted- the TPM duel and Anakin riding off to save his mother...and while it may seem that good triumphs in one of those scenes (the TPM duel), it really doesn't. Note that a quiet version of the chanting is used as Maul's motif in TPM; it's really a theme for evil triumphing. Note it isn't played when Obi-Wan offs Maul. This is good winning, obviously..however, the chant is used when Qui-Gon is killed, and in the scenes leading up to that. And obviously, what happens after it's used in Episode II isn't good.

 

nice thoughts... however, if that was it's true intent, we would hear it DURING the scene when ani offs the tuskans, not just before it. I think that before, there was still conflict, and the outcome was yet to be determined.

I almost like to think of it as a subtle Greek Chorus. During key points of interpretation in Greek Drama, the Chorus would come in and tell the audience what is going on, just in case they missed it. I think that in some ways, DOTF is performing this function, but without the interpretation that the Chorus offers.

 

I love the Sanskrit. It sounds kinda like Latin but it's not.

I pick "a" but the pacing is great too.

 

as GL said on the "Beginning" documentary, it is basically spelling the impending doom....that's why it will work so well in III.

 

I tend to view it like this


[image=http://www.mitchelswoodfarm.com/images/riding/donkey.jpg]

 

@ halibut

Tenor, your point about the Greek chorus was excellent. Definitely puts things into perspective -- after all, SW is mythology, and the prequels are, as Ken so succinctly mentioned earlier, dramatic. The choir was an integral part of the Greek drama, and naturally, is a part of SW. Super insight there.

 

I kind of think of DOTF as the force theme for the prequel trilogy. I kind of hope that notion transmogrifies in Episode III, that the force theme becomes more of Ben?s theme, as it was in "Hope".

 

Duel of the fates IS overrated. its the same theme about 87000 times

 

I've listened to DOTF quite a bit since 1999, and I'm pretty sure I haven't heard the theme a total of 87,000 times.

And the SW scores are based primarily on thematic material.

 

"How do you view DOTF?"

I don't view it, I listen to it. Mwhahaha!

Sorry, bad joke.

 

Oakessteve: Hey, it's true though.