(How) Does the Darkside really control someone?

Putting aside early pupils or disciples of Sith or Dark jedi (their main reason being that they were taught at an early age)

I've always wondered how the darkside of the force worked on the mind of it's user. Originally I believed Jedi or force users turned to it when they wanted to use it as a weapon or sought it for more power. But in the end, it seems the Darkside controls its beholder.

One great case is Anakin. Originally he had good intentions with it (to save his wife) but the path to do this just got worse and worse. From killing Jedi, to Killing the separatist, his own wife and soon he becomes vader and faithfully serves the darkside and the Emperor. He doesn't really realize "Hey what I'm doing is kinda wrong.." even after he contradicted his whole objective of learning about the dark.

But I digress: I've always pondered how the darkside seemed to control it's user. I look at it as two ways:

1. The darkside as a Parasite: The user first embraces the darkside using it's power to do his will while ultimately believing he's controlling it, using it like a tool or weapon. Unbeknown to them, they seem to only further cause destruction to others or themselves, whether the intentions be for right or wrong. In this case, you are completely unaware of it's actual control but you only believe you are.

2. The darkside as an addiction: When a user embraces the darkside, and use it for whatever they gain or see purpose to, they are however aware of what they are doing, and aware of it's control, but no matter what they do, they must have the dark in them and have it's use available at anytime. Ultimately having the drug control them.

What do you think? =)

 

I always viewed the darkside as the force on steroids. When Vader makes a fist at the end of episode 5 and tells luke "if you only knew the power of the dark side" It was as if he was telling Luke "this is some bad ass **** and if you just taste it you will never go back" but aside from being so powerful its also a drug that takes over the mind.


That is what I hate about anakins turn to the dark side in the PT films. He turns based on a lie and deceptive trick by palpatine. Not because he was seduced by the dark side as Obi-wan tells luke in ROTJ. Anakin goes from wanting to turn palpatine in and wanting himto stand trial to siding with him because he thinks Palpatine can teach him how to save his wife even though he just then discovers palpatine has been trying to murder padme for the past ten yrs.


A wasted oppertunity to display just how powerful and seductive the dark side is.

EDIT: Language

 

Which was never proven to be a lie.

 

Well palpatine claims he can teach anakin how to save padme before he turns and then after he turns he admits he doesn;t know how to do it and that together they will have to learn how.


I would say that justifies a lie.

 

Which is the same thing. It's the dark side.

 

Arawn, it's not the same thing buddy.


He goes from saying He knows how to do it to then saying He will have to "learn" how to do it.

That's a lie.

 

No, he says he has the power to make it happen. The situation of him and Anakin learning together is entirely consistent with this.

 

palpatines exact words are "I CAN save the ones you love" He says this while he is frying himself with his own force lighting. Then after he turns he says they have to learn how to do it.


I guess it's up to the viewer how they want to perceive what he says.

 

Only through me can you achieve a power greater than any Jedi. Learn to know the dark side of the Force, Anakin, and you will be able to save your wife from certain death. The emphasis is the same, even at the outset.

No, he says he has the power to do so. Which is still consistent with his role as the conduit to the DS.

 

I can view it that way as well But even once that is declared. Anakin just found out palpatine had been trying to murder padme the last 10 yrs but just going to forgive him for that and trust someone whos trying to murder her toi teach him how to save her life? That just defies all logic.

 

Yes it could be looked at as an additive drug. If the darkside was roids, then gray jedi or jedi who use the darkside have it controlled. Similar to how some athletes who do roids have doctors monitor them to avoid serious disaster.

I think it was a lie. It's in the Sith nature to lie and cheat and deceive to get what they want. Truly if Anakin followed his teachings that the Sith do nothing but lie, he probably could have avoided the whole disaster. And the entire time working together after Padme's death, I don't think Sidious or Vader ever figured out how to save anyone from death.

 

That's not proof of anything.

Except that "the Sith do nothing but lie" is only a factually inaccurate assumption. Palpatine makes many statements which are literally true.

 

And Palpatine did eventually learn how to cheat death, but by then it was too late to save Padme.

 

Yes that is proof enough.

Sith are KNOWN liars, even if they say something is true, they are still known for their repetitive lies. Which they use to manipulate things to get what they want. So why ever bother with a group who lies and deceives and hell, even betrays each other?

Cause Anaknin just didn't know better, or napped during Sith history in class.

Maddox put it best.

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/images/ep3_tot1.gif

 

I don't think the films are actually claiming the Force will inhabit your mind as a conscious body and bend you to its will. It's a give-and-take. Remember:

"You mean it controls your actions?"
"Partially. But it also obeys your commands."

We're not dealing with "The Exorcist" here. Think more metaphorically. When we're talking about the dark side controlling someone, we're not really thinking of some mysterious black energy out there in the ether. We're talking about them serving the voice, that selfish aspect of our animal natures, that's been there all along.



Rick McCallum loves you!

 

That's a self-fulfilling assumption and not proof of anything. The Sith in the films isn't known for repetitive lies. Proof is a word with a fixed meaning. It doesn't mean the same thing as "opinion" or "suggestion".

 

Although you can't say that all Sith are liars (there is a lack of 100-percent proof on this), we can say that they do resort to lies (or working around a lie in an enticing fashion for another being) to get somewhere. Although Palpatine might not have lied to Anakin about being able to cheat death, he was able to use this point effectively as a promising goal, not a flat-out lie because he later said that they could work together to find it. Now, if he had never found the way to do such a thing and said that he could have done so, then it would have been a lie.

Now, about the Dark Side being a mind-control method, I've never really thought about it being a way to control a being. It's seductive and can influence decisions made by Dark Side-affiliated characters, but it does not directly control them, instead feeding them things they can do in order to gain what they are after. They still have the choice to execute these actions or not.

 

Fenn use the maddox reference. Thanks

But wasn't it the case when Anakin went to the dark side? His symptoms of it just got worse and worse. First aiding in the death of Windu, then attacking the Temple, then slaughtering the separatist, attempting to kill Padme, etc etc.

 

I think what it is, is not some possesive force, but is as AdamBertocci describes it, a giving in to the animal inside.

What it looks like to me is that the person starts to give in to strong negative emotions and influences which then overrides their self-control. As the person gives in repeatedly over time, the self-restraint on actions that the person used to consider abhorrant slowly diminishes. They get 'seared' to the promptings of their conscious, until they arrive at the point where they can kill in cold blood without batting an eyelash.

At the same time the Force 'inside' them corrupts and turns Dark. This influences their personality, and they then choose actions that align with this new altered personality.
It becomes a vicious circle, one that gets harder and harder to pull out of.

 

^ That's a great way to describe it.

 

For me, the "dark side" is nothing more than the more negative emotions and impulses in an individual's character. I also believe that it is up to the individual to learn to "control" these impulses, instead of simply supressing them or pretending that they do not exist within each individual. I also believe that individuals need to learn to "control" their more positive traits and emotions. Sometimes, allowing your compassion or generosity (or whatever) to run amok allows others to take advantage of you, or blind you from the state of reality.

 

It is dark vs light, a story (the story) that has been told since the beginning of time in some form or other. The sun giving way to the moon every day or our lives, since man first walked the Earth.

The more immersed in darkness (death) you are, the further you fall out of the light (life) and thus any way back to it, it shapes both who you are and how you leave your mark on the world around you. The further you walk down a road, the harder it is to turn back, because your choices down the road define you and push you further down your chosen road.

I realize this is an over simplification of the concept, because in star wars the force is beautifully crafted to be one of, if not the, most interesting/romantic takes on darkness vs light in fiction. If you are going to read about the greatest story ever told, why not from a character driven saga

 

The more immersed in darkness (death) you are, the further you fall out of the light (life) and thus any way back to it, it shapes both who you are and how you leave your mark on the world around you. The further you walk down a road, the harder it is to turn back, because your choices down the road define you and push you further down your chosen road.


For me, I would rather see the story as attaining the balance of light and darkness. To be completely immersed in darkness or light, blinds a person. And I believe that through his characters, Lucas has shown this.

 

What does a balance of light and dark mean? A grey character? I think the idea is to go for the light because nobody is perfect and thus, everyone is some shade of grey at one time or another. But I like the objective of attempting to obtain perfection, albeit, few if any ever reach that point.

I think the more characters allow passion to rule them, the futher they will travel down the path of the dark side. It in essence consumes them slowly because when acting out of heightened passion, one can easily lose one's sense of proportion, objectivity and fairness in making judgments. Others may reach the point where incredible power is the goal and great shows of strength through the Force outweigh all other considerations, such as consequences. You go into destroy a village using the Force and realize afterward, your power enabled you to destroy 10 villages - a much grander area - and its like, 'whoa, that's cool. Didn't have to kill all those people, but it is worth it to know the outer boundaries of my power...I wonder if I could increase that to an even greater degree?' And so on.

 

Absolutely ?to bring balance to the force? is one of the central plot themes but we are speaking of how the darkside controls people, less how people choose to act when under its influence.

There is no denying that the pull to darkside acts is strongest when you are a Sith, rather than a troubled Jedi, struggling with emotions for instance. If you are immersed in the darkside you are more likely to reflect that in your action.

As to blinding a person, I agree it can make the characters more flat but personally I like to roleplay characters who retain a twisted core of themselves, even to the darkest depths of despair.