How doesn't Republic rule over Empire?

Question: if we know the primary characters can't die in these Imperial story issues, how doesn't it suck the dramatic tension from each story?

I haven't read Empire beyond that attrocious Betrayal, and haven't seen a reason to. None of the plots seem engaging to me. Rebels find refuge from nasty Imps, Imps fending off hostile natives. Even the Darklighter arc has been done and overdone many times throughout the years. We've had endless Biggs this and Porkins that in every X-wing book and comic. First issue of Requiem showed him there too, in flashback.

And now Leia and Solo in more adventures pre-Hoth, or Vader strongarming his way through more adversaries. None of them are going to be seriously harmed.

Not so with the Clone Wars series. You have ongoing characters like Tholme, Secura and Vos and other related cast members where things are bloody, unpredictable and ever changing. More importantly, we don't know their exact future; they may or may not die. Republic is so much more dynamic than Empire.

Even the Empire cast is been there done that. How many times have we seen Vader, Solo and Leia in action, a hundred, that more adventures are needed? It's not like the Empire series is introducing new and recurring people, something different.

How doesn't Republic rule over Empire, I ask?

 

Good points, all.

But don't forget that people don't like things that are strange and different. We like what we know...hence the popularity of SW! 1977's not exactly recent!

But, yeah, there's no dramatic tension in a non-Infinities story where any major character is in danger pre-Endor. Shame.

 

Excellence, I do largely agree with your point that Empire hasn't been nearly as engaging as it could be. I think the stories have been solid, but it needs some continuity. However, I thought the same thing about Republic (before it was called that) until the "Twilight" storyline - introducing Vos and Secura (and Villie). That series has built up a ton of momentum since then. Hopefully Dark Horse will realize that it must introduce new, recurring characters for the series to be successful. If not, I fear the series will sputter and die before long.

In answer to your question, in no way does Empire succeed over Republic, at least not yet.

 

Excellence, well, you should try Volume 3 TPB: The Imperial Perspective. That, perhaps, would show you there is some tension I personally love Empire not for the issues with Vader, Leia, Han etc (I HATE the major characters by this time already, just too much of them everywhere).
I love Empire for the tales of those not known, for the tales from the Imperial POV. Like tales of TK-622 & Akobi, of Sunber.
But, if you're not a pro-imperial, that may be of no interest to you at all. In fact you could almost consider these issues "hypocrisy" due to the mention of terroristic rebel activities and a portrayal of good men in the Empire.
Personally all the rest of the issues except 13 and 16-19 did not appeal to me at all. Not to mention that the art in Empire sometimes sucks.
So, I like Empire exactly for "strange and different" and skip the issues with the "superdudes"

 

Not so with the Clone Wars series. You have ongoing characters like Tholme, Secura and Vos and other related cast members where things are bloody, unpredictable and ever changing. More importantly, we don't know their exact future; they may or may not die. Republic is so much more dynamic than Empire.

Eh. Who cares. None of the characters are that interesting. Entertaining but rah rah get out the pom poms.

While I enjoy Vos' adventures, I can't say I particularly care about what happens to him. I don't find myself on the edge of my seat wondering"? Will he go dark or not??!!"

If he stays light...it's been done. If quin goes Dark Side...fall from Grace while trying to infiltrate the dark side... it's been done( Ulic Qel Droma).

And no, Ostrander's more in depth analysis of a character's psyche during his transformation into evil doesn't particulary interest me either. It's been done with plenty of other chracters in the literary world.

It doesn't make the anlysis more interesting if the character is a Jedi.

As a famous king once wrote down...

"There is nothing new under the sun"


In the end, everyone can say what they want but the real reason they read or watch star wars is that little kid in us all who yearns to see someone's ass get blown off with a beam of energy.

WE can't admit that to ourselves of course. We say things like, "oh it's the mythological aspects that appeal to me!" or "have you ever examined Luke's hero jouney and compared it to the journeys of other classical mythological heroes?"

BS

If we want sophisticated writing, we go to the greats. If I want tgo see someone's ass blown off I go to Star Wars. That is why in the end...Republic...Empire..it makes no difference.

 

IMHO we so do not need any more stories about the main heroes. We know where they've been in their lives. The years of the OT are what made them the characters they are post-ROTJ up to the NJO, theres absoultly no need (or logic) in making that period anymore convoluted than it already is. Especially since any 'major' event that appears in 'Empire' can only be a drop in the ocean of Han, Luke and Leias lives, since its not likely to ever be referenced any where else.

Saying that, I truly believe that Vader's got some awesome issues left in him. That Tales story of Vader on Bespin with Threepios head (I forget the name) is fantastic. Maybe Empire could show exactly how Vader fell from being Palpatines loyal servant, as will happen in Ep III, to him being the traitor that he is towards ROTJ, plotting to overthrow his master.


Excellence, you should start this over at the DH boards as well.

 

Excellence, the kind of dramatic tension you're talking about is just one thing that fiction can do, it's not necessary or paramount. 'I found Betrayal atrocious' and 'I wasn't engaged by the plots' doesn't tell us much about Empire or even your problems with it.

Matthew, you can see explosions in any number of films, so your explanation for Star Wars's extraordinary enduring popularity fails from the start. It endures because it's the greatest telling of the hero's journey of our time.

 

Jello, get the issues 13, 16-18, 14 and 19 first of all any pro-imperial needs to have these

 

I read Betrayal and the Darklighter story. They were OK. But in comparison to Twilight, Darkness, Jedi Council, and Clone Wars they aren't great. This reminds me I need to check if Clone Wars 4 is out.

 

Betrayal sucks compared to the rest of "Empire" IMO. The only good thing about it is the incredible cover art.
Darklighter was really good except the last issue. Boy, that sucked enormously. I did not imagine Biggs spent his last hours like that...

 

"Hopefully Dark Horse will realize that it must introduce new, recurring characters for the series to be successful."

We're with you there. As most of you have already pointed out, working around that heavily covered time period with the 'major' characters (which is what we thought people wanted to see) is quite a task, and creating dramatic tension is tough when you know how it's all going to shake out.

It's not obvious yet, but we've already started planting some of those recurring characters in the series, and you'll see a few more of them pop up in the next couple of issues.


"Also, who knows- maybe BoShek will get more issues if we like his first appearance :"

I hope you all dig what we've done with him -- I have some big plans for that rockabilly spaceman...



(Oh, and Mr. Trias -- Be careful with those broad strokes; generalizations rarely hold up to scrutiny. Perhaps you should be saying "I" instead of "we." For me, there's a lot more to the SW saga than lightsabers and blasters...)

(...There are also cool spaceships.)

 

This reminds me I need to check if Clone Wars 4 is out.

I picked it up yesterday.

 

Yes, yes, yes. Get rid of the main heroes; everyone knows what would be of them. Go go the new guys...

Perhaps a few cameos by famous EU characters would also make some sense. Like a story with.. Isard? About... Bel Iblis? About Bail Organa? Mon Mothma? Ackbar? Thrawn? Yeah. That would rock.

 

Thanx Raven.

 

Good call Gross Admiral Thrawn. Those are all character I'd love to see in Empire.

 

As said before, Empire includes characters we have seen a billion and a half times. I haven't read Empire, but I have no intrest in it because, it is seems to be the heros in the same general situations again. On the other hand, Republic has the first good quality stories of Obi-wan and Anakin that I have read, and it tells about a new story that us fans have been dieing to know about for a long time. Plus it doesn't just focus on te main characters, it is showing many people, and their role in this war, the first real war in thousands of years, and their feats, and even the roles they paly in the Vader-to-be's life and his journy towards the Dark Side.

In other words, Republic rocks.

Of course that suggestion of other ppl being the stars could get me interested in Empire. Ackbar's time as a slave. Mothma finding herself the sole leader of the Rebellion. Bel Ibis leaving the rebellion. Bail Organa being Bail Organa. Isard murduring her father. Thrawn being sent off into the unknown reagons. etc.

 

ThrawnRocks,
you should consider reading "Empire". It some really exceptional issues about characters we do not know. Not the main ones.
So give it a go, I would advise. But from the 10+ issues. Not from the beginning.

 

[Jeremy_Barlow]: "... working around that heavily covered time period with the 'major' characters (which is what we thought people wanted to see) is quite a task, and creating dramatic tension is tough when you know how it's all going to shake out."

Well I, for one (and it seems I may be in the minority around here), do enjoy seeing the big name characters appear in Empire. I think there's are plenty of stories to be told during this time period of Luke, Han, Leia, etc. I think the challenge is to create more supporting characters that don't seem to be disposable, and I'm glad to know that this is your intention.

I've always thought that the strength of an ongoing comic series was in its ability to create subplots along the way, and build up to something that is rewarding to read rather than just add water and *poof* instant adventure.

[Gross-admiral_Thrawn]: "Perhaps a few cameos by famous EU characters would also make some sense. Like a story with.. Isard? About... Bel Iblis? About Bail Organa? Mon Mothma? Ackbar? Thrawn?"

I agree. Appearances by some of these lesser-known characters would add some extra "coolness" to the series. And perhaps we could have some stories staring Jaxxon the six-foot rabbit, hmm? I kid, I kid.

 

When all the toys need to be put back carefully in the box at the end of every novel or comic in most franchises (as with every other SF media creation I can think of) so as not to upset the static fictional universe, then the storytelling elements hypothetically do run the risk of becoming watered down.

Science fiction, unlike most literary genres, tends to be radically non-renormative. Renormative stories -- like most mysteries, modern fantasy novels, thrillers, and so forth -- have a "good" status quo (the image of things as they should be: the "true king" enthroned or no murderers running free). Before or during the story, that status quo is upset, for the worse. The job of the hero is to make everything right...to essentially put all the pieces back where they belong, where they were before.

SF, on the other hand, is a literature of changes and transformations. After the Glorpaploorians of Zeta Reticuli invade, things *never* will be the same again. One of the main jobs of SF is to show how those changes operate, and what their outcome might be.

As for the existing SW series now ongoing, it's a double-edged sword. Republic, as mentioned above, features a large slate of primary characters whose final fates are still left twisting in the wind. The reader don't know from Shinola what's right around the next corner for these folks. Dramatic tension is helped by urgency; when the alien fleet is only a few weeks away, you don't want to hold an election campaign in order to decide what to do about it.

Dramatic tension is also helped by identification with the protagonist; mechanisms involving using unassailable, Kevlar-jacketed characters can be a way for stories to achieve their aesthetic goals, but individual readers (other than hive minds) don't hold truck for very long with this practice. Using other, more susceptibly vulnerable protagonists as reader-proxy pays far greater dividends if we think our investment in said character(s) will be startlingly short-sheeted.

 

The difference, T2Q, I think is that we don't know how these characters got there, and hardley any of the events that shaped their lives.

 

How doesn't Republic rule over Empire?

Come again?

 

(...There are also cool spaceships.)

Oh yeah I forgot to mention the visuals of overwhelming Imperial Force. That too.