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How hard can it really be to become a jedi?.. continuity issues?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by hero_of_canton, Mar 7, 2007.

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  1. hero_of_canton

    hero_of_canton Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 20, 2007
    hang in there for a bit of a post....

    so the Empire is almost through destroying the rebel base on Hoth(ESB), and we have our 2 heroes, going there seperate ways. Luke and Han/Leia leave at approximately the same time, at the very most within the same day, and that is generous. the M. Falcon runs into the Empire leaving Hoth, dodges them for a bit, hides in an asteroid for a while too. then they come out and play a little more dodge ball with the fleet, hide on the destroyers tower and drift away with the trash, and head off to Landos city(which the empire beat them to btw)....this entire ordeal seemed to have taken place in a matter of hours, or even a day, but lets again be generous and say all that spanned an entire week....

    meanwhile Luke has gone to Dagobah to find Yoda. counting travel time and the crash, and getting to know Yoda at the beginning, i would say a generous estimate(in the same week alotted the falcon above) would be 6 days worth of training before he went off to rescue Han/Leia at Landos.

    lets skip back to ANH for Luke meeting with Obi-wan. saves his life, and gives him his fathers saber, but no training. Luke heads back home to find dead relatives and decides to join Obi-wans quest. they take a speeder to Mos Eisley, lets say that takes 3 days, althought probably not that long? i cant imagine alot of training went on during this speeder ride, tho i may be wrong. they go to a bar and arrange a ride. between meeting Han and taking off, lets say another 3 days, generous estimate i would say. on the Falcon he actually has some training, wowzers. and the trip to Alderaan mite take another few days, although it seems like a few hours. then we get on the Death Star, Obi and Luke both seperate and before you know it no more Obi-wan Kenobi.

    so before the encounter with Vader in the ESB, Luke mite have had a combined 2 weeks in the COMPANY of a jedi, not even 2 solid weeks of training. he sure seemed to hold his own with , not only a sith lord, but the chosen one with the highest whatever count on record. i wont even go into the 5 mins he spent with Yoda in ROTJ.

    so we go from this master student training relationship that lasts from childhood to manhood, to a 2 week crash course in philosophy and saber training(which we dont really see any of), am i the only one who notices this, or is this a common thread an just overlooked by fans. i am not even complaining about the lack of continuity in the timeline of the movies in general. just with this jedi training thing.

    is there a reasonable explanation for this, perhaps i am mistaken? if anyone has information regarding this id love a reply, thanks in advance =D
     
  2. sith_rising

    sith_rising Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 7, 2004
    The Star Wars movies, thankfully, avoid giving us any sort of timeframe. Most of the films seem like they could have happened anywhere between 24 hours and a few weeks. I feel it's something like:

    TPM: about 3 or 4 days
    AOTC: about a week
    ROTS: about a week
    ANH: less than 3 days
    TESB: a few weeks
    ROTJ: less than a week

    As for Luke's training, it was a matter of quality over quantity. Yoda was giving him a feel for the Force, rather than just giving him an instruction sheet of techniques.
     
  3. Earthknight

    Earthknight Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2002
    We got to also count the time period between episode IV and V. It is very possible that Luke might've been doing little training on his own during that time period. He had to have done some training during that gap if he was able to discover the Force Pull technique( which he used in on Hoth).

    The truth is, he didn't get the full training. Yoda and Obi Wan just taught him the basics.
     
  4. Master_Starwalker

    Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2003
    Your gripe is why I to this day feel Lucas made a large mistake in making the Jedi right in their belief that Anakin was the Chosen One. I think that had Lucas made it turn out that Luke was in fact that Chosen One, with the Jedi never telling him this fact in order to stop him from getting the arrogance that plagued his father it would make more sense.

    The current explination is that his training in Empire was actually a few months as it would take Han and Leia a long time to get to Bespin without a hyperdrive, it's still not the same length from the Prequels, but it's enough for his crash course from Yoda.
     
  5. Obironsolo

    Obironsolo Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 7, 2005
    All true, but then again, Luke in Jedi was not facing the kind of opponent in Vader that the prequel Jedis were up against.

    For one, Vader was hetting old, and he was softening on the whole dark side thing by the time they fought the second time. The first time they fought, Vader beat Luke with ease.

    Second, Luke never defeats the Emperor. On the contrary, the Emperor would have killed him with ease.

    If Luke had fought Anakin from Attack of the Clones, he would have gotten killed.

    Then again, Luke saves the galaxy by overcoming his fear, something Anakin was unable to do when it mattered. Perhaps this illustrates that the key to being a great Jedi resides not in the midichlorian count, but in the ability to let go.
    Midichlorians only matter in regards to potential.



     
  6. Jedi-Queen

    Jedi-Queen Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 16, 2005
    Agreed. Luke basically had his rump handed to him by Vader more than once until
    Luke temporarily gave into his anger and lopped off dad's hand.
    Vader was kind old and slow by then too haha.
    And yeah, if Luke had fought Anakin in his prime he wouldn't have lasted 5 mins.
     
  7. Hootini

    Hootini Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2006
    Let's not forget that Luke wasn't exactly giving his "all" in ROTJ either so no-one can really be certain at that point.
     
  8. T-R-

    T-R- Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 13, 2003
    Did you actually watch Jedi? Luke was the one kicking his dad's ass all over the throne room, even before he went postal.
     
  9. Master_Starwalker

    Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2003
    In Empire Luke did yeah, but in Jedi neither one is trying for the majority of the duel.


    Possibly, but if Anakin fought Luke in his prime he'd last even shorter.
     
  10. Jamiebacca

    Jamiebacca Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 17, 2003
    That last part made no sense.
     
  11. Master_Starwalker

    Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2003
    Okay, I'll try to explain it using the old Internet favorite of x > y > z

    Luke at his prime > Anakin at his prime >(arguably) Luke in RotJ.
     
  12. Jamiebacca

    Jamiebacca Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 17, 2003
  13. Master_Starwalker

    Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2003
    D'oh, I'm too used to the EU bleedover into this forum, I forgot to note that by Luke's Prime I mean Luke as a Jedi Master after the films.
     
  14. Jamiebacca

    Jamiebacca Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 17, 2003
    OOOOH!! Okay then.

    Yes, probably.

    [face_worried]
     
  15. Jedi-Queen

    Jedi-Queen Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 16, 2005
    "Did you actually watch Jedi? Luke was the one kicking his dad's ass all over the throne room, even before he went postal"

    um yes, I did :rolleyes:

    I wouldn't say Luke was kicking dad's ass. As someone else pointed out,
    neither were really trying very hard for most of it.

    and yes, Luke in his prime (as we see in EU) would probably be quite a match
    for a in-his-prime Anakin.
     
  16. BattleDroid1138

    BattleDroid1138 Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 6, 2000
    Here's a link that may shed some more light.

    LINK
     
  17. Dizzarth

    Dizzarth Jedi Knight

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2006
    The problem with the OP's argument is that luke was pretty weak in TESB. If you remember, vader handed him a HUGE whooping on Bespin. Not only did Vader kick him around, he was obviously holding back and was not interested in defeating Luke until he revealed his identity and asked for him to join him. Once Luke knows and has refused the offer, it isnt long until he his hanging from his knees. Throughout TESB, Luke is nothing special. The time that it took Luke to train is the time between TESB and RoTJ. Luke is obviously a VERY changed Jedi between the end of V and the beginning of VI... everything about him (his demeanor, his powers, his confidence) has improved in a drastic way. He obviously did some heavy training between V and VI... By the way, this is the same amount of time it took to get the Death Star Mark II working... which is a very interesting point to notice!

    As far as the continuity issues are concerned remember how different Lukes training needs to be from the Prequel Trilogy Jedis. In the PT, Jedis need to learn philosophy, politics, military strategy, culture, races, history.... etc etc etc. Luke only NEEDS to know one thing: How to kill Palpatine/Vader. All he needs to know is how to use the force for fighting and how to use it for saber combat. It makes sense, then, that he could get by on such little training.
     
  18. Darthgordon

    Darthgordon Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 1, 2005
    *sigh :rolleyes:

    The only reason anyone thinks that Luke couldn't have been on Dagobah for very long is b/c they believe that the Falcon trip was no more than a day or two. The Millenium Falcon traveled from Hoth to Bespin w/o any Hyperdrive stopping in the Anoat System on the way. The only evidence that the trip didn't take very long is that Leia never changed her clothes (if there's any continuity problem it's that most of the characters in Star Wars don't appear to change thier clothes often or have closets full of clothes that all look the same). To travel the vast distance between star systems at sublight speeds would take a long time. In fact a lot longer than we are led to believe in Empire. If they hitched a ride on a Star Destroyer this could have significantly reduced the amount of time for the trip (I don't know if they did or not, but it's the only way I can make any sense of the whole thing). So my guess is that they were out there a month and Luke was on Dagobah a few days longer.

    He had to have conducted some sort of training in between ANH and ESB. Whether on his own or with the disembodied voice of Obi-wan.

    Still significantly shorter than the years Jedi training took in PT, but he just gets a crash course.
     
  19. Darth Sin

    Darth Sin Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 1999
    Luke: "You mean the Force can control your actions"?

    Obi-Wan: "Yes, but it also can(will)obey your commands"

    In answering this post I am one that firmly believes that Luke did do some training of his own between ANH and ESB and of course between ESB and ROTJ.

    But I also believe that the Force itself played a part in him maturing in Force knowledge and growing more powerful because of Luke's destiny and role to play a part helping to bring the Force back into balance. Luke was not the Chosen One of course, but it was necessary that he reach the level of power and abilities in order that he might save his father, Anakin.

    In other words I believe the Force controlled many of Luke's actions that helped him become more powerful in the Force in a short period of time because of his destiny. Let us not also forget that Luke and Leia also more than likely had a high midichlorian count seeing that they were the offspring of Anakin, who had the highest midichlorian count which we know now indicated Force power potential. So this also played a part in his ability to learn and grow in the Force in a short period of time.

    So I believe even unknown to Luke, that the Force was leading, guiding and to a large degree controlling many of Luke's actions that helped him grow more powerful in the Force, even without direct contact from a Jedi Master.

    Yoda's words: "The Force is used for wisdom and knowledge"

    Darth Sin! :cool:

    By the way, I have returned!!! [:D]
     
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