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PT How have people who troll the prequels affected your love of the movies?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by OBI WAN37, Jul 1, 2014.

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  1. OBI WAN37

    OBI WAN37 Jedi Youngling

    May 12, 2014
    Although I realize someone can love these movies even when watching them as an adult, the prequels have now reached an age where the generation of kids who watched them while they were young have grown to be adults. If someone was 8 when The Phantom Menace was released, they would now be 23.

    As we all know, there are many people who do not like these movies, who actually claim to hate them. And, as many would also agree, there are a lot of people who troll the films.

    I cannot stress how much I hate this.

    I can tell you that as a child I loved the prequels. And I'm hoping that love hasn't been lost. They were "my" Star Wars films. I think part of the reason the Original Trilogy didn't click with me as much was they, though in my opinion not any better than the prequels in story, lacked the action of the PT that connects with any eight year old like no other movie could.

    I just finished watching the PT after about a year and a half without seeing the movies, which is partly because of my life circumstances, but much more because of all the negativity I've been reading about them recently. I'm not new to the internet, I just never took much notice of Red Letter Media and such.

    But I started to wonder, was there really logic behind all of these OT fans' anger? So I started debating with people on the internet about whether or not these films were good and such, and I noticed that the prequels do have some flaws. More than the original trilogy? I'm not sure.

    I may have just been influenced by all the negativity of the people I've argued with over the past several months, but when I watched the prequels over the course of the last two days, I noticed a few flaws. I don't know if it was because I was looking for them, as I so badly wanted reviews like Red Letter Media to be wrong, or because I was paying more attention to the plot this time.

    Regardless, my love for these movies has been shaken a bit... and it saddens me very deeply.

    I just wish that all these prequel haters would realize what they are doing when they try so hard to negatively criticize these films. All these claims of George Lucas ruining their childhood.... I just wish they would realize what they are doing to the childhoods of many fans who share an equally deep love for the very movies they are disparaging.

    For those who love or have loved the PT, how have these negative criticisms affected your love of the prequels?
  2. Valairy Scot

    Valairy Scot Backpacking One Pack a Day Mod of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Sep 16, 2005
    Made me speak up in defense of the nonsensical claims. I have no problem with those who merely dislike for subjective reasons, but when they point to problems that "everyone knows is problems" I get feisty. So the PT is shinier, grittier, whatever - that's neither right or wrong. If folks **** about crappy dialogue when there's also crappy dialogue in the OT, I get feisty.

    If you let "everyone" color your perceptions...well - look for what YOU like as well as what others point out you should dislike.

    Some of the criticisms make sense, and I (used to) try to open my mind and reconsider the points, but most of the points have been argued for years. You don't like TPM with a 9 year old Anakin. Okay, don't like it. It doesn't make TPM bad, just now what you wanted. You don't like Anakin - well, I can't say I was fond of how he was portrayed (in AoTC, mainly), but it doesn't mean the PT is ruined.

    If you're really getting bummed, try looking for the "counter-RLM" rebuttals, as well.
  3. Schwarma

    Schwarma Jedi Knight star 2

    Oct 30, 2012
    I do think a whole culture of it being cool to hate the PTs has evolved over the years. It does irk me somewhat. But as an original Star Wars baby (born in 1977) I do think that having grown up with the classic movies, the prequels are very much underpar. Now, it can be argued that I am biased, but as both a fan of the original films and a cinema buff in general I look at the PT and I can't help but see problems. I think one of the problems is that the fans who felt really let down by the PT films have been unfairly mixed in with the people who find it cool to hate them. But I can tell you that sitting in the cinema in 1999 I could not help but feel that I wasn't watching something that had the feel of the Star Wars I remembered. That was a feeling I again had with AOTC. Again, with ROTS I felt like that, albeit far less than I had for the previous two. I just couldn't escape that feeling. Furthermore, there were things in it that, from a film fan point of view, were just plain bad. Jake Lloyd, Mr. Christiansen, wooden line delivery (and I'm not talking the dialogue, but rather the difficulty that all the green screen and SFX created in allowing the actors to perform), some out and out cringeworthy characters, some really awful humour and in the case of the first two, whole scenes that I thought were downright boring.

    In all three films I have come to appreciate certain things. For instance, there are still some great characters, like Qui-Gonn. ROTS has some great moments in it. But I am still, 15 years after Menace, trying to force myself to like them and accept that they are part of the canon. I think that people who have seen the classic movies retrospectively will have a hard time understanding how difficult it is to get passed not only some of the things that are just plain movie making, but that these are all wrapped up in a package that has links to something you identify greatly with your childhood and youth.

    Some of the "trolling", as you put it, can be excessive. But I would be careful to stereotype all critics of them as being part of the "cool to hate" crowd. For many there is still a feeling of colossal disappointment. A frustration that they could've been so much more but weren't. The beauty of being a fan before the PTs was that things like the Jedi, the Clone Wars, Anakin's past with Ob-wan and so on were like great mysteries and legends that we could only dream about. The grand days of old. But ultimately what was presented to us on screen didn't even begin to vindicate those dreams and imaginations. SO, ya know, go easy on us old timers. Not all of us "love to hate" the PT, we just don't think them particularly satisfying at the end of the day.
  4. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Hand of the Mod Squad and Enforcer of the Realm star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Nov 1, 2012
    Mod Warning: This thread must stay on topic, i.e., the impact "trolling" has on the perception of the PT. If any part of this thread is directed at specific individuals or groups, then I will lock the thread. As always, no flaming or bashing people who may hae different or divergent views will be tolerated.
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  5. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 5

    Jul 7, 2009
    They didn't. Why should they? Most of the criticism I see can be resumed to fallacious claims, different expectations, subjective claims of perceived flaws treated as fact, double standards, and pure ignorance to what these movies are, what they represent and how they were made.
  6. Samnz

    Samnz Jedi Master star 3

    Sep 4, 2012
    I genereally appreciated the kind tone of your post.
    However, this is a bit .... questionable. There are plenty of people - also on this board - who grew up with the originals and still like/love the prequels (or a subset of the PT) to a similar or the same extent. Some dreams do come true - but not all of them. You can't expect others (Lucas and his collaborators) to make your dreams come true.
    Disappointment was unavoidable.

    About the OP's question:

    It did affect me, but not negatively. There was a (short) time when I questioned myself whether my opinion on this subject was substantiated or not and I came to the conclusion:
    Yes, it is. I like the PT better, because I genuinely consider them as better films. All the hate led me, more than anything, to back up my originally more intuitive opinion with more solid arguments. That doesn't mean that I don't realize everything about film is subjective. It's only my opinion, just as others hold theirs.

    However, that doesn't prevent me from rolling my eyes when people criticize Hayden Christensen's acting while ignoring Ford's and Fisher's less than impressive performances (in ROTJ, at least). Or when people criticize Anakin's turn while ignoring the cheap cop-out with Luke (not showing any struggle with "the truth" beyong Empire). Or when people critizie Padmé's passive role in the third film while ignoring Leia's passive role in the third film. Or when people criticize the "disconnected" TPM while ignoring the fact that ESB disconnects itself from / invalidates ANH altogether. Or when people whine about lines like "You're breaking my heart!" while accepting lines like "I'm Luke Skywalker and I'm here to rescure you!" perfectly. etc.

    There are basically four stages:
    1.) "Critism" that is beyond ridiculous, provided by the most rabid haters --> I really don't care.
    2.) Critism that is so general or so subjetice that you can't discuss/duiscuss about it, e.g. when someone screams "Bad Acting" without further explanation: this includes various actors over three films with numerous scenes, a general statement like this not substantiated, it's cheap bashing ---> Don't consider it, because it's impossible.
    3.) Some points that could be valid, but can be found to the same extent in the OT --> Either double standard, or I disagree with them, or Stage 3.
    4.) Critism I agree with, which is rather rare --> Nothing's perfect.
  7. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

    Aug 19, 2003
    Mod Edit. Improper Comment. I presume this post was a joke, but if it was not I would highly encourage you to review the TOS. thejeditraitor
  8. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Mar 4, 2011
    I enjoyed TPM and AOTC and don't really care what other people like; they don't have to share my taste.

    And Stoklasa is not worth the attention he gets.
  9. Randwulf Crescentmoon

    Randwulf Crescentmoon Jedi Master star 4

    May 25, 2013
    I highlighted these because I think that it is important to note that everyone has different opinions, and are subject to personal bias, though, not necessarily due to hate, but out of frustration. Sometimes, I think people forget that such is the case, and view subjective criticism as prequel bashing. They are not the same thing.

    I have read a whole slew of comments geared toward flaws perceived throughout the prequels, and at the end of the day all 'tis is noise... subjective observations vented by others who are equally as passionate about Star Wars. How much have those subjective observations vented by others who are equally as passionate about Star Wars affected my outlook toward the prequels? Nada, zip, zilch. Personally, I operate under a nonconformist rational, in that I do not let random strangers decide for me whether or not I should like something based on subjective observations vented by others who are equally as passionate about Star Wars... but I guess I am unorthodox in that way... which, perhaps, sheds some light on why I do not let subjective observations vented by others who are equally as passionate abou- *exasperated sigh* I can't do this anymore.

    Anyway, if you allow such views to leave an impression, then you will lose every time until all of your joy is sapped away, and the only thing that remains is several fragmented points of view that are not even your own anymore. In many ways one can lose themselves to that line of thinking. No one wants that, ssooo you enjoy the prequels again dammit!! :p ;) As should everyone else as well, and don't you dare let my own perspective toward it or anyone else's tear down your appreciation because if you enjoy it, then that is all that matters.
  10. Seagoat

    Seagoat PT and Music Section Dictator star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Jan 25, 2013
    Not at all. What matters is that I enjoy SW for what it is, and if someone disagrees, then that is their opinion and I believe both parties should respect one another
    I feel this is all I need to say
  11. Schwarma

    Schwarma Jedi Knight star 2

    Oct 30, 2012
    Not enough then go on and call it a load of rubbish! ;)
    I didn't want my personal dreams fulfilled. But I did want movies that felt like Star Wars and were otherwise satisfying as good entertainment. I do not see what is questionable about that.Indeed, of the three I think that ROTS is the one that feels most like SW and comes closest to almost hitting the mark. How could I make that determination if I were just one of the "love to hate" brigade? You could equally make this argument about the James Bond films in that I prefer all my films to be like the Roger Moore movies because that's what I remember as a child. But it's simply not true. The subsequent films, for the most part, have all been good entertainment and I have yet to not enjoy a Bond film. So you see, I am perfectly willing to be flexible, as long as the movie is still enjoyable and half decent. I'm sorry, but I can't help but see serious faults with the PTs that go well above and beyond what the frustration of what I as hoping to see. What is a little offensive about what you are saying, and I'm sure you didn't intend to be offensive, is that I'm basically some sort of spoiled child that had such overblown expectations I was never going to be satisfied whatever I got. But I think that is an unfair predetermination of what it takes to satisfy me. Essentially you're saying I am predestined to be let down by this coming Abrams film as well. What is I come out of the cinema after that and feel that I saw something satisfying but still have the same view as the PT. What would you say then about the level of me expectations?

    It seems what you're saying in your post is that "you've said it in polite way but I still think you're a hater", which is grossly unfair. I do not hunt around the internet looking for ways to criitcise the PT. If anything, up until today, I have rarely discussed it online, and never before on Star Wars board. So you need to appreciate that for as many fans of the OT who did like the PT there are also fans who were let down and have that feeling quite apart of getting a kick out hating the things.
    DarthAhem, Yanksfan and vinsanity like this.
  12. Schwarma

    Schwarma Jedi Knight star 2

    Oct 30, 2012
    Agreed. But I think it would be naive not to at least recognise that there is a subset of the PT critics who are doing it because it's the thing to do. I particularly dislike that such people have arisen as it means that those of us who want to legitimately critique and debate the movies are now given the stench and being a "hater" (an immature tag if ever there was one).

    Mod Note: Double Post. This is your warning
  13. Sariel2005

    Sariel2005 Jedi Youngling star 1

    Jun 10, 2014
    I grew up with the OT and I love the Prequels as well, I think they are fantastic and in some ways better than the OT ( Empire is my overall favorite though TBF).

    As to trolling, not sure about comments on board but if it counts negative reviews of the films by Internet critics has enhanced my enjoyment of the films if anything. The criticisms caused rewatching and actually a greater understanding and appreciation of the movies if anything. Certainly, ROTS is in my top 3.
  14. Legacy Jedi Endordude

    Legacy Jedi Endordude Jedi Knight star 3

    Sep 9, 2012
    In all seriousness, it made me like them more!

    I have been reading so many defenses (and written quite a few of them) on the prequels, and it helped me enjoy them even more (not that I didn't enjoy them in the first place, I loved them!) the hate gets annoying, but hey, people will disagree.
  15. Zinnzade

    Zinnzade Jedi Knight star 1

    Dec 6, 2013
    Can someone else's opinion make the Duel of the Fates scene suck? Can it make a great score suddenly sound terrible? For me, there's a lot to like in the PT that cannot be "un-enjoyed" due to others opinions. It's almost like eating a type of food you really liked, and then letting someone else's opinion of it affect the taste afterwards.

    Actually, the more I've talked to people who disrespect the PT, the more I realize there's a lot in those movies that they really like too.

    The only way it has an effect for me is if prequel trolling actually starts to negatively affect new Star Wars content being put out.
  16. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Mar 4, 2011
    Yeah, I can't say I really understand the bandwagon concept or how having a "popular" opinion makes it somehow more valid.

    Which is why I went with "Who cares what other people think, as long as you like it?"
    Pensivia and Jarren_Lee-Saber like this.
  17. Sariel2005

    Sariel2005 Jedi Youngling star 1

    Jun 10, 2014
    This is my point the criticism made me rewatch and enjoy the movies MORE.
    Plot complaints? valid but they are for the OT as well ( ever watch "How it should have ended"?)
    Dialogue - same thing, OT not great. and in fairness the PT has some great dialogue, really funny lines.

    S/X = pretty awesome actually, TBF I grew up forgiving Doctor Who for wobbly sets but Lucas really pushes the boundaries and its excellent, why complain about stuff that no one has ever done before.

    Oh and Jar Jar is not THAT bad .
  18. V-2

    V-2 Jedi Master star 5

    Dec 10, 2012
    I like the prequels (RotS in particular). I was 19 when TPM came out and was open to how it would be (so long as Vader fell in a molten pit, thus winning me a £5 bet), but I was naturally expecting similar pacing and cinematography as the original trilogy. The fact these elements were missing was disappointing, but the glimpse into the Star Wars universe was something I enjoyed. Each film has enjoyable elements, and bits to point and laugh at (just like the OT), but the differences in look and feel, style and substance, are jarring.

    I like RLM. They make entertaining reviews (but terrible cartoons). Calling them trolls is inaccurate though (one might even suggest it's cynically antagonising... ;)), so many of their criticisms were spot on and the way they're presented is self mocking and entertaining. Their regular review shows are also good (though I'm not a gamer so don't watch PREREC or whatever it's called). I'm very pleased they're still going (and seem to be growing). Good luck to them.

    Now I have encountered what I'd call real PT-hating trolls. I think a number of them could just have serious obsessive compulsive issues and don't actually set out to troll anyone (and probably wouldn't know how if they wanted to), but there are a few decent genuine trolls out there. To say I'm not affected by them would be dishonest, but to suggest I'm aware of exactly how I'm affected would be arrogant and probably delusional. So here goes:

    A decent troll will upset me, but I'll later find myself amused by it. Some of the more incessantly annoying (possibly unwitting) trolls may provoke me to find fault in their arguments and lead to me justifying my love/like for the prequels even more. Sometimes a decent troll will be on my wavelength and provide a welcome moment of entertainment. It all depends on context and the lulz.
  19. Beezer

    Beezer Jedi Master star 4

    Jul 5, 2013
    Do people who troll impact my opinion of the prequels? No.

    Do people who offer insightful criticism impact my opinion of the prequels? Very, very little. Sometimes I will read something insightful and it gives me something to think about, but it generally won't influence my overall enjoyment.
  20. Jesse Booth

    Jesse Booth Jedi Knight star 1

    Jun 8, 2014
    I never let other people's complaining affect my personal opinion of something if I disagree with them. After all,

  21. Valairy Scot

    Valairy Scot Backpacking One Pack a Day Mod of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Sep 16, 2005
    See, I was different. At the beginning of TPM, I really felt that "yeah, we have Star Wars." I was pumped and thrilled.(In college when ANH came out, so I was an OT-firster, not a PT-generation). I walked out of TPM feeling GL had gone "commercial" - kiddie-oriented and set up like a "game." TPM left such a bad taste in my mouth that I have never yet seen AoTC in the theater.

    Now, years later, TPM is my most watched SW movie (yes, I fast forward thru a lot of stuff, but I do to some degree in all movies after seeing them so many times).

    I can find fault with every one of the 6 films. I appreciate every one of the 6. I actually find the PT "more watchable" than the OT.
    Andy Wylde likes this.
  22. PiettsHat

    PiettsHat Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Jan 1, 2011
    Like me! Although I didn't see TPM when I was 8. It wasn't until the mid-2000s that I got around to watching Star Wars.

    See, I'm kind of the opposite -- the more I watch the PT, the more I find things to love and whenever I see one of those "reviews" that eviscerate the PT, I can't help but to think that the same thing could easily be done to the OT.

    I actually started reviewing ANH "Plinkett-style" here:

    Just to show how stupidly easy it is to pick apart "flaws" in the films.

    For me, the PT bashing is really only annoying when:

    1. It crops up randomly in something else I'm enjoying. If I'm watching a video about The Legend of Zelda and they randomly decide to take a potshot at the PT, it's just disheartening. It's like eating ice cream and biting into gravel.

    2. When people link me to "brilliant takedowns" of the PT like RedLetterMedia or ConfusedMatthew or The Distressed Viewer or whoever instead of elucidating their own opinion. It's really frustrating because I've already seen all of these and I think they're full of crap. If I ask someone their opinion on the PT, I want their opinion and their reasons.

    3. People who try to argue that it's objective fact that the PT are terrible. Something you don't like =/= objectively bad. And vice versa for the things you do enjoy.
  23. Zer0

    Zer0 Jedi Knight star 3

    Sep 3, 2012
    If just makes me love the movies even more, I love all six movies, and that'll never change. So when I see people say things like the OT is the only "True" Star Wars, the PT doesn't exist, we're going to have some dialogue..
  24. MrCody

    MrCody Jedi Knight star 1

    Dec 4, 2013
    I understand where your coming from, after may the 4th, seeing all six films in the cinema again. I noticed how some originals fans are just losers. I enjoy all 6 films and after seeing the originals on the big screen for the first time it was such a good experience i loved it. It made me love star wars even more! It was over two days, so first day was the PT and not many people showed up, heaps of room left. Next day OT it was packed. People everywhere it was exciting. Before it began the cinema did a little quiz to win little prizes. Questions that revolved around the PT, people starting dissing it out and saying bad things about the PT. It was annoying. Then booing when Hayden appeared at the end of Return of the Jedi. My mate and i just looked at each other, just like wtf is wrong with these people. We actually started clapping. Experiences like that ruin star wars that little bit for me, dislike the films go ahead but at least show enough respect to them for people who like them. Then you watch things like red letter review (Mod edited: Not appropriate) it was just silly to watch and stupid. Valued points no doubt but has not changed my mind one bit. I was 4 when i watch Episode I on the big screen, i had no clue what was really going on, i liked everything scene with a lightsaber that's all that sank in for me. Years on i have seen it many times and i love it even more, I understand whats going on in every scene. So i grew up with the PT so of course i prefer it to the OT. When OT fans nonstop dis everything they can on the PT, it has the opposite affect on me, it makes me love them more. OT and PT to me are both Star Wars and what Star Wars should be. A universe where anything can happen. Love all of them and will always love them all
  25. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Mar 10, 2005
    The trolls have only solidified my love, because they don't have a case other than "I don't like it". None of them do.
    Objectivity in art doesn't exist, period.
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