PT How have people who troll the prequels affected your love of the movies?

The reaction to the teaser trailer to TFA has once again confirmed why I loathe fanboyz: their hypocrisy (they whined about the prequels being "all CGI," which isn't even close to the truth, yet they have no problem with the CGI in the teaser trailer); their tendency to project their own vileness, hatefulness, and bitterness (claiming that Lucas is "eaten up with jealousy" and so forth because this teaser trailer is going to "pwn" his crappy prequels); their allergy to facts (claiming that the prequels were universally despised); their hyperbole (claiming that the prequels "made them want to kill themselves" and Lucas "should have done time for the prequel scripts"); and most of all, their unfailing ability to find a way to bash Lucas, even if he has nothing to do with what they're bashing him for.

Then after they spew their hatred, they whine and sniffle and act like victims when they get talked back to. "We prequel-haters never get our say!" they simper, as if they don't get their say all day, every day, wherever they want to get it.

 

Well, yes -- I've seen some pretty hateful stuff. Like a few people on IMDb looking forward to Lucas becoming "worm food", or someone on the Episode VII board who (a few months ago) said they'd rather have been sent to Auschwitz than watch a Star Wars prequel.

But that sort of extreme, random vileness is really just that: extreme. I don't think you can use it to judge entire groups of people. Prequel/Saga fans have to be careful of sectarian bigotry of their own.

The one thing that has struck me as a little ironic, though, is the general love (at least that's what I noticed) for that "soccer ball" droid, or call it what you will. People seem generally to have taken to it as a fun, charming addition to the trailer, when it seems about as silly and about as "Disney" as a SW droid has ever been. Not that I'm arguing it doesn't fit, mind you. Perhaps the prequels have simply worn down the defences of some more than they would ever care to admit. Or they're being hypocritical because this is coming from other crafts people, not Lucas.

There is a hypocritical gleam to all this. But I'm not sure it's as quite as oppressive or ridiculous -- generally-speaking -- as you're making it out to be. That and, were you to confront these people, they would be able to give you answers, rationalizations, good and bad. Well, most of the time. Everyone sees something slightly different in these films, and not everyone who might otherwise concede that they dislike the prequels loves the new trailer, necessarily. I have seen some of what you're on about, and a fair bit of fresh (well, utterly stale) prequel-bashing, but my general feeling is... if people are that unreasonable, that determined to bash, why not let them be?

I don't know if that is a concession of defeat on my part, wanting to pull away, apathy, or something approaching objectivity. Honestly, I don't know. I agree with confronting hatred and ignorance, no matter the source, no matter the subject, but I'm not always out to change the world. Some part of me thinks, despite the horrible state of it, it's chugging along just fine, regardless of what I do or don't do (a mild delusion, perhaps), and it's sometimes for the best to let things take their course. Sometimes.

 

*sigh* You're probably right, as usual. I am just fed up with the hatred and nastiness. I guess you could say I've got a little bigotry going when it comes to people who don't care for the prequels -- judging them by the actions of an extremist few, because there's a part of me -- a bigger part of me than I'd like -- that wants to believe that they are all, or mostly, hateful and vile. I could offer my own rationalizations for that: I've been seeing unending, extreme bashing of the prequels go on completely unchecked for over 15 years; the hater viewpoint is the ONLY viewpoint the media bothers to pay attention to, thus giving a false impression about SW fandom; that the media has joined in on all this nonsense, using the trailer to, bizarrely, dig up their old slams of the prequels and revive the idiotic "racist stereotypes" talk. "Lucas would never have had a black stormtrooper," they say, then offer up the requisite Jar Jar Binks dis as "proof." These are the same liars who screeched about Jar Jar's "dangling dreadlocks," when from what I can see, he not only doesn't have dreadlocks, he doesn't have HAIR. But that sort of blatant, shameless untruth slides right on by with no resistance.

I might add that online fandom is a very different beast from offline fandom. In offline fandom, those who didn't care for the prequels have pretty much moved on from them. They might see the trailer for TFA and say, "Well, I hope this movie is better than the prequels," but they haven't spent 15 or more years wallowing in hatred and spewing said hatred wherever they can. Such behavior isn't really practical in real life: people who do nothing but complain tend to alienate those around them. Especially if they are free to move on from whatever it is they're complaining about, but refuse to.

The ball droid -- I see the glowing acceptance of it as hypocrisy, since if it had been included in one of the prequels, there would have been extreme outrage about the "cutesiness." But again, maybe that's just my bigotry.

I admit I have more than a little bitterness myself, over the way the prequel-bashers have been permitted to say pretty much anything they liked, no matter how vile or extreme, and those who complained were told to suck it up. But that same policy doesn't seem to apply to criticizing/bashing the EU and various aspects of it.

 

The media doesn't deal in reality -- just clichés and stereotypes that sell papers and generate clicks/ad revenue.

Yes, I think you want to see a bit more hatefulness than is really there.

There have been so many people over the years, though, that really have behaved in an untoward way... well, I think I see your reasons.

I have my more militant moments (some even in this thread, arguably), but I worry that too much focus in this area is quite toxic to general well-being.

I like the movies and think I should spend a great deal more time "chanting the beauty of the good", to paraphrase Emerson, than lamenting the negativity around them.

There is a kind of incandescent stupidity to those sorts of accusations -- again, though, it's the media.

Star Wars' relationship to issues like sexuality and ethnicity is quite complex and is best not reduced to accusative soundbites... IMO.

The media likes to stir things and play on common prejudices on matters like these. It's not the place to go if you want a sophisticated, edifying treatment of anything you care about or happen to love.

I might despair about that, at times, but mostly, I laugh about it. Can't easily change the nature of the beast. Sometimes, I think, best just to accept the beast is there, and go in a different direction.

Yeah. The online world is a very strange place. Negativity and entrenched views are much more commonly expressed online. I guess it's liberating to people.

(Though hatred, as the saga teaches, is quite enslaving overall).

Could be, could be. But you're not alone here.

The ball droid might actually be my favourite thing in the trailer. I guess I'm just an incorrigible prequel nut.

 

I'm simply weary of it. The negativity has been going on for a decade and a half, and despite what "moderators" have said about how it will "die down," it's only gotten more virulent. Simply put: the people who have been ragging on the PT for 15 years or more finally got what they wanted: a SW movie where Lucas wasn't in charge. (We don't know, at least not yet, the extent of his involvement -- if any -- with the movie, but we do know he wasn't in charge.) So why aren't they happy? And it galls me to see them cast their nonstop negativity as signifying deep love for the saga. Really? With "love" like that, who needs hate?

 

The vileness is on all sides, Maychild. It's way out of control on all sides. Responses that are overly defensive *fuel* the nature of conflict. It is not simply PT bashers 'moving on' that needs to happen for tensions to ease. All sides have to have individuals willing to accept differences civilly. Guess what? We exist. Maybe you should seek us out rather than entrenching your own slanted view. Not everyone with differing views and tastes is a rash 'spewer'.

 

I'm all for activism and active engagement with whatever bad, whatever hypocrisy, whatever vileness, whatever wrongness you think exists.

But, at the end of the day, these are just movies, and reserving too much hatred for people who themselves might be given over to hate seems -- to me -- both toxic and a big waste of time.

That is just me, though. I want to put more and more of my energy elsewhere. The world is a very dark place, run mostly on fear and greed. I think it could do with a little more light. Getting too wrapped up in these movies, let alone any hate against them, is a big distraction.

Again, that's just me. We've all got our angle on these films and the various issues surrounding them. Not saying my frame is inherently better. I just want to own my emotions better and ultimately do some good.

Peace.

 

Cushing's Admirer: From what I've gathered by reading your posts, it seems to me that you're a very reasonable person and I very much respect your opinions, attitude and openness. BUT, I have also noticed that you seem to defend the view that there are people on both sides of the PT-OT spectrum who bash the other side. And I just can't agree with that. Now don't get me wrong, I know there are people like you (mostly an OT fan, if I'm not mistaken?) who don't bash the PT and are open to other views. But people like you and/or people who like the PT are simply not heard enough in general discussions on other sites and online in general.

In the past couple of months leading up to the teaser of Episode VII, I have again started to follow the whole Star Wars franchise more closely. I've been browsing a lot of big sites such as reddit (subreddits r/movies and r/StarWars), YouTube and various news sites with Star Wars articles. If you go look at the comments, I can guarantee that there will be comments on how ****** and atrocious the PT is. Those comments will have 200 likes or upvotes and a whole bunch of supportive replies. I have yet to see a successful comment of that nature pointed towards the OT. If anything, there is an occasional "freedom fighter" who just wants to settle things down by saying how they think the PT is just as good. And then they will invariably be called an idiot.

That's basically my experience with online Star Wars discussions and it's pretty sad sometimes. JCF are the exception to this rule. Luckily, people around me in real life are also more open towards the whole saga.

 

@Alienware I do notice that those that largely favour the PT claim they don't see bashing of OT but it DOES happen. I have seen it here by some of said tastes. It may happen less often but it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. In fact many PT Defenders assert superiority by bashing OT, just as some OT Defenders do the reverse. Or the EU or Rebels or TCW. It is all erroneous. Differing tastes and perception is NOT wrong. It does not warrant questioning a fellow fan's morals. (Not you, your post is one of the most respectful I've seen in a while and I sincerely thank you. It happened to me in another thread this morning).

Another mistake many make is painting one faction or other with the same brush and then justifying it. We are not all the same. Yes, I prefer OOT and Post-RotJ EU. I am currently getting a lot of flack for being an EU fan. 'EU dead, get over it'. It's not helpful at all and there are people far more effected than I by the Mouse's decisions. The sensitive types are too often margilaised particularly online. People are overly harsh and it causes real damage. It saddens me. I am nearly burned out.

People on all sides spew hatred. I think many over focus on the PT. However, some Defenders tone and language isn't any better than the bashers. I tire of the needless tensions on all sides. We are all fans. Can't we respect that regardless of what speaks to us?

 

Alienware My exhaustion with reading that kind of thing is why I've assiduously avoided all discussion of VII, on this and other forums/sites I frequent. I do want, and am wholly prepared, to love VII, and it would be nice to get excited about it by talking to other SW fans about it, but like Cushing's Admirer I find the hatred very wearying. Maybe I'm overly thin-skinned in letting the toxicity dictate what I choose to read about a movie I want to fall in love with, but all the same...I-III matter to me. Like all works of art that speak to me, they've changed the way I look at the world, and to that extent, have become part of me. I just go -- nope, not gonna read that. Even if you're not a PT fan, that stuff isn't good for your soul. I'm going to see and judge VII on my own terms, PT-"gushing" and all.

 

@Cael-Fenton Oh, so do I, Cael. Entirely. Not merely over the films that speak to an individual but what character(s). I have no defenses whatever, so I know how hard it is to not let the *constant* negativity to affect me. I like aspects of the PT. I like learning and listening. I can disagree and not attack others I wish more did likewise. The hostility is energy-sapping.I hear you completely on the profound effect of art that speaks to an individual. I grow and internalise from such sources as well. I am likewise beginning to get the grounding I need to ignore the nonsense.

 

I understand what you're saying, but the vileness on the side of the PT bashers is presented as normal, both on internet message boards and in the media. The vileness on the other side is presented as that: vileness. It's also presented as "extreme denial" and "stupidity," because only stupid people in extreme denial would like the prequels, right? Meanwhile, saying that Lucas should be executed or serve jail time for the prequels...that's healthy, even "funny." So is equating the PT or SE changes to rape, spousal abuse and child molestation. Of course, if you turn it back around and say that people who say they trash the prequels because they really love SW, more than Lucas does, sound an awful lot like abusive husbands who say they only beat their wives because they love them....OUTRAGE! How DARE you equate bashing of three movies to spousal abuse! Never mind that the bashers themselves opened the door with their rape/spousal abuse/child molestation analogies!

 

Trolls and Haters don't make me dislike or change my opinion on the films if I like them I like them and that won't change.

 

The problem is very simple: it's the internet.

In real life, I have never seen anyone behave this way. Perhaps I don't go to enough conventions (in fact I can't remember the last time I went to one), but I really doubt that the negativity in real life would ever go beyond things I've already heard from old-school fans - stuff like: "I couldn't connect with the characters in the PT", "I didn't see the point to Jar Jar's character", etc. And again, that kind of criticism of the PT is absolutely fine - it's respectful and civil. It's just criticism. It isn't slanderous, offensive, stupid, or - and this is crucial - trolling.

The internet is a completely different beast. While most internet users are probably ok just as most people in real life are usually ok, the internet is also filled with a percentage of middle-aged men and women who have nothing better to do with their lives than diss others over a computer screen, and with a number of teenagers who have no lives either, and so waste their time doing the same thing as the middle-aged trolls. And ANY forum or message-board which doesn't have decent, proper moderation will invariably be FILLED with trolls. It doesn't just happen with Star Wars either. It happens with all forms of media. You can find truly disgusting, offensive, and horrible comments about pretty much ANYTHING in the world, especially media, but even political stuff and social issues. There are thousands, possibly millions, of 'people' (I use that term loosely as they are more like animals) out there who are so arrogant that they not only believe their opinions are facts, but insist upon forcing them on others in the only way they can - via the internet. In real life, they'd be laughed off the street.

Now, when I've met people in real life whose opinions and behaviour I find personally offensive or despicable, I make my views clear and then usually just walk away and (normally at least) never have anything to do with them again. That's surprisingly easy. On the internet, it's entirely different for a simple reason: with private messaging systems and unmoderated places such as YouTube, any individual could potentially have a disgustingly offensive argument with another with NO consequences.

The very reason that all these trolls, flamers, aggressive bigots, bullies, and generally horrible jerks of human beings are so prominent on the internet is because much of it is a consequence free zone. Have a bad day at work or school? If you're unthinking and uncaring, you can dehumanise others on the internet by trolling all just because you had a bad day, and get away with it. It's pathetic, but it wouldn't happen to even close to the same level if every website and forum out there had strict moderation and rules of conduct. Not strict ones - just reasonable ones, such as a basic level of respect for other users of said forum or website, and NO trolling or flaming.

Additionally, while this may be obvious, many trolls and flamers also just say things which they know are contentious among either some people or even many people because they find the reactions to be hilarious. And sometimes they are. But some humour aside, there's no excuse for cyberbullying, trolling or any such things.

Of course this brings up many other issues. Should the internet be more moderated generally? Should it be more strictly policed? Would that take away freedom of expression? If done properly, of course it wouldn't - it's perfectly possible for anyone to state a contentious opinion without being a jerk about it. If more people used the internet closer to the way they communicate in real life, then the net would be a better place.

It really is about that, fundamentally. Thoughts?

 

Here's a particularly rational, intelligent post from a basher in a thread titled "What will you do when George Lucas dies?" (Other bashers responded that they'd crack out the champagne, dance on his grave, etc.): "If he had died in 1998 it would have been better for the franchise."

 

I don't know the answer to those questions. But I will say that, even though your post contains a lot of truth, I think it's a bit simplistic to ring-fence "trolls", "flamers", "bigots", and "bullies" -- or at least the two of those four terms -- off from the rest of us; as if there is a neat divide between seediness and salubriousness. In reality, we're all capable of trolling and flaming, at times; and we can we all come off as pretty bigoted, at times, too. Circumstances shape behaviour. Of course, there do appear to be people who often say things to get a rise from others, and there are even those that go around making nasty threats, but again, there is this seed of surliness and evil in all of us, I think.

Policing the Internet is not a thing, by and large, that sits right with me. That said, I am quite happy that there are moderated, restricted places on the Internet (in reality, virtually everywhere on the Internet is at least slightly this way). TFN is a sanctuary compared to IMDb, for example. In fact, stack TFN next to any Star Wars message board, and I think it comes off looking pretty damn good in comparison. It seems to be the only place where a) prequel fans are protected and wish to congregate and have a visible presence, and b) decent, semi-coherent conversation is actually possible for any serious length of time. Moderation, when it's truly moderate, can bring boons to a community; indeed, it defines, in large part, what shape and size that community takes.

But the Internet as a whole? Very big place. Total revolution in human consciousness. I think these are just growing pains.

 

This is the most reasonable sentiment in this entire thread. A whole lot of the posts in this thread are just defensive veiled insults to anyone who does not like the prequels. Expressing hate of the prequels does not equal trolling.
And grade 3 is where one should stop letting other people's opinions affect your enjoyment of anything. This attitude to me is as silly as bashing or "trolling" anyone's opinion to begin with. as it is.

 

From what I've observed thus far, because it's not the Prequel, those particular folks you speak of like it. It doesn't matter how CGI the trailer looks, or the fact that there's a goofy little droid-ball thing. It's not the Prequels, thus it's obviously a 4-starred movie. They're judging a movie based off of a teaser, and that's usually not a good thing.

Granted, yes, the Prequels have a LOT of things wrong with it, and those who criticize it are not wrong at all. It could've been a better trilogy, way better than what we've got, but like you said, the senseless 'lol Lucas suxxx!!!11!!' comments doesn't help at all. It even makes those who rationally critique the Prequels look bad.

 

I did have a problem with the media putting there nose in where it doesn't belong regarding episode 7. With them dragging the PT in to bash it in some form or manner. Some bashing more subtle than others. But now I could care less. Their little jabs at the PT doesn't effect my loving the saga in anyway. Nor do haters or trolls affect it either. I love the SW saga and nothing will ever change that under any circumstances. Though the internet is the breeding ground for the haters and bashers. I will say I usually see more PT bashing going on than OT bashing. Most people who like the PT also like the OT. But I think one of the biggest reasons for PT hate is the plinkett character and his "reviews". This guy has brought on a new frontier of PT bashing. I don't even think that most of the people that jump on his wagon actually hate the PT that much. It seems to be more of a "monkey see monkey do" type of situation. I have watched his videos(unfortunately). They were almost impossible to get thru. But I am a trooper and managed.

I tried to get some of my points across, but met with the most vilest, disgusting comments I have ever read. I gave up trying to argue with people that follow plinkett. There is no point. I have named his followers "the plink-ettes" I mean anyone that says anything about this guy or against him is met with harsh reactions. Because one of the most widely used comments when it comes to plinketts PT videos is, I never knew what was wrong with the PT but after watching his videos I know why. So after all those years, it took you just a few of his videos of him rambling on about how nothing makes sense realize "how bad the prequels were"? Then I tell those people they still don't understand the PT or what is wrong or right about them.

 

They truly are the worst. Their inability to think for themselves is the most troubling aspect, but what do you expect from a cult-following?

 

There is nothing worse than a plinkett bandwagoner. You can spot them immediately in a comment section. They are the ones that parrot plinkett line for line and use it as their own arguments. I just want to say to them, just link us to his reviews if you're going to parrot the guy! Just send us the link. It would make life a lot easier. Not that them sending the link is worth anything. But if you are going to go word for word by this guy, then the link would be the same thing. I mean most of his followers aren't able to grasp the simple McGuffin of the taxes in TPM? How is it possible for them to enjoy the other films when they are still baffled by something that the characters involved with the taxation didn't even care about after the opening scroll?

 

They haven't affected my love for the prequel films.

They have, however - inspired me to be the best Star Wars fan I can be. And to try to create a safe space wherever I am.

Real life. Internet. Truly wherever.

Because, like the OP and other posters already covered in this thread -- a lot of PT haters simply make a lot of SW environments hostile.
Call me a softie or whatever but it's. not. right.
Lots of kids (including myself) gained entry to SW through the PT. So many people also found themselves entranced with The Clone Wars for all the years on the air. That show was on air for 5 years... When these "fans" try to pass off the PT and and all prequel-era things as garbage or whatever - it's erasure. They literally want to deny an entire generation their entry point to Star Wars. It's insane and hypocritical to the heavens considering they're a group of people saying absurd and insensitive things like "George Lucas r**** my childhood."

The Star Wars twitter can't post a single prequel image without the replies full of just irrelevant comments like "ugh that CGI!" "don't encourage the prequels pls"
That stuff is not cute, and quite frankly, leaves me a bit embarassed for the folks writing them. Like, are you that hot-headed you gotta stick your snotty opinions everywhere? Pretty sure the Star Wars twitter account is not Rotten Tomatoes
Leave that for something else
It's job is to share Star Wars content. And yes, the prequels are Star Wars content.

So yeah, their trolling has made me want to try my best to share the love. Not to let Star Wars spaces become this haven for petty shows of false superiority. We can discuss and share opinions! That's the fun of it all, isn't it? But we all know that's not what these trolls are doing with their gross, insensitive comments.

 

Well said, yet it isn't one-sided and many on all sides act like it is that is truly the most disturbing aspect of fandom for me. I can totally empathise that it's individuals that sour SW much more than the content. It's really, really sad not to mention immature and tiresome.

 

You mistake using analogies/similar/exactly same things from the OT to make a point about how biased the ''arguements'' against the PT are, as bashing?
Please tell me you're joking now...
Link one thread that was started for OT-bashing...just one!

 

They haven't, though they do provide some good humor from time to time.