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How is Star Wars EU Continuity different from Star Trek Novel continuity??

Discussion in 'Literature' started by JediLaw, Nov 1, 2001.

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  1. JediLaw

    JediLaw Jedi Master star 3

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    Oct 30, 2001
    Ok, after suffering through the amazingly long debate in the "Canon: the last word" thread, it once again becomes painfully obvious to me that even though almost all written star wars work is in the continuity, not all of it really "fits". there is much contradiction and the feel of the stories (atmosphere) is different in each medium (comics, novels, childrens storybooks, videogames).

    On the other hand, there are several hundred Star Trek prose novels. the novels are not considered canon and often contradict themselves. There is no continuity between most of the novels. Star Trek novels have become Adventure of the Week for the crew of the Enterprise.

    My question is this: How close is SW EU from becoming the disjointed, tangled mess that Star Trek fans have long suffered through? Is EU just the "Adventure of the Week" for the Star Warriors??

    How could one group of people realistically have that many adventures and always play the pivotal role in the history of a galaxy?
     
  2. Darth Ludicrous

    Darth Ludicrous Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 25, 2000
    well Star trek is set in the future while Star Wars is a long time ago in a galaxy far far away, first of all.
     
  3. Mavrick889

    Mavrick889 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Feb 27, 1999
    It may seem like that to someone who doesn't keep track of the stories and such, but take it from me, someone who organized a very cohesive and accurate timeline, the adventures flow into each other very well, the continuity is better than any other fictional universe out there, and it all works really well.
     
  4. Leto II

    Leto II Jedi Padawan star 6

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    Jan 23, 2000
    Well, with the possible exception of Babylon 5, whose novels and comic stories draw from the notes and timeline details going one million years in both directions, all written by its creator.

    Quite well-integrated, really. :cool:
     
  5. JediLaw

    JediLaw Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 30, 2001
    I applaud you for being able to organize all of the EU stories into a cohesive chronology? are you an author of one of the SW chronologies?

    Do you think that if someone would organize the STar Trek novels they would fit togeither? I mean . . . in some, Kirk is dead and in others (the one's written by Bill shatner) he is alive!!

    don't the later issues of SW Marvel contradict the Glove of Darth Vader stories?
     
  6. JediLaw

    JediLaw Jedi Master star 3

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    Oct 30, 2001
    The Robotech Universe is also surprisingly well organized! and darn fun to read!
     
  7. Mastadge

    Mastadge Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 4, 1999
    You guys aren't fair to Trek novels. Starting several years ago, Trek novels underwent a huge change both in terms of editing quality, plus the fact that they started doing multi-book series and crossshow series. I think the only examples of these things prior to this were the Lost Years books and the novel Federation. A couple years ago even more changes came over. Star Trek books now DO fit on an internal timeline and are made to fit not only with continuity established with the show but also with continuity established within all the series. Characters from one set of novels can show up in others. Ongoing story arcs seperate from the televised shows have started: New Frontier, the DS9 "relaunch" starting where year 8 of the show would have picked up, and I think some new TOS era series. The authors are working together and collaberating. In all, the Star Trek novels are becoming a lot more like what we've come to expect from Star Wars in terms of internal continuity. In fact, Pocket has published a timeline of all the Trek novels and where they fit in with the shows and each other. It can be found in both the Adventures in Time and Space reference book as well as the upcoming Gateways finale.
     
  8. ShinagamiWing

    ShinagamiWing Jedi Youngling star 4

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    Oct 21, 2001
    Yes, B5 is the only "perfect" continuity, and SW is more confused. But It's not as cooky as Star Trek, that's for sure. This is because unlike with B5, the creator does not look at every little thing and does not have it all planned out. Not only that, but authors will add their own bits to it, as well. Star Trek is twice this; every author who gets to write will make up whatever suits them. But all this talk of canon and whatnot... can't we all just be SW fans and enjoy what they give us, even if it gets kind of confusing at times?
     
  9. JediLaw

    JediLaw Jedi Master star 3

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    Oct 30, 2001
    Wow, Mastadge! I had no idea that Trek editors had attempted a Trek novel chronology. I actually read the New Frontier series and am a fan of Peter David. I also have read the Deep Space Nine relaunch. But . . . what about the books where Spock has a son living in the past on Vulcan?

    Again, I don't claim that continuity glitches take away from the fun of readin a good novel. It seems, however, that there is never a good jumping on point in the EU
     
  10. ShinagamiWing

    ShinagamiWing Jedi Youngling star 4

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    Oct 21, 2001
  11. Mastadge

    Mastadge Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 4, 1999
    I don't know how the timeline handled books that had been contradicted by the show, I think the official way to look at it has been, if the show contradicts it, or the books since the new editors have come in contradict it, then it didn't really happen. For example, in DS9's Wrath of the Prophets, Ro Laren was a main character, but she goes to DS9 for the first time in the Relaunch. Therefore, Wrath didn't really happen.
     
  12. Darth_KindaEvilGuy

    Darth_KindaEvilGuy Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2001
    The nature of the characters and the mileau in Trek makes "stand alone" stories work our a little bit better than the TGFFA. I believe that Trek's campy roots allow for more diverse situations than in Star Wars (could you picture Luke and Han dressed as gangsters or sparring with the Greek god Zeus?). Also, the "mission oriented" roots of the Trek EU make one-shot adventures a little easier to do without sacrificing the "feel" of the series.

    The biggest thing that I feel used to make things easier was that each novel was not an "event novel". It's a lot easier to maintain continuity when you're not constantly killing off main characters and introducing new ones.

     
  13. Mavrick889

    Mavrick889 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Feb 27, 1999
    "I applaud you for being able to organize all of the EU stories into a cohesive chronology? are you an author of one of the SW chronologies? "

    Well, thanks. Yep, I've got a 60 page word document that covers everything (novels, films, comics, RPG, pc games etc), and organizes it all by month increments. PM me if you want a copy.
     
  14. Mastadge

    Mastadge Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 4, 1999
    Speaking of killing off main characters, DS9 novel Fallen Heroes kills off all of them. It's still tied as one of the best DS9 novels, along with 34th Rule (which could easily be a holocaust story), and A Stitch in Time (which read a lot like Ender's Game). Also, Far Beyond the Stars by Steve Barnes was Exceptional.
     
  15. Matthew Trias

    Matthew Trias Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Sep 8, 1999
    "Do you think that if someone would organize the STar Trek novels they would fit togeither? I mean . . . in some, Kirk is dead and in others (the one's written by Bill shatner) he is alive!! "

    Nope.They wouldn't.There are flat out contradictions in the trek novels.Read a few.

    An example...in some of the old books,the Klingon Empire had an Emperor.Worf was not the first klingon in starfleet.Stuff like that.No way around.
     
  16. MaceWinducannotdie

    MaceWinducannotdie Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Aug 31, 2001
    I actually like Star Trek, but I have to ask: can't they just say that something that doesn't fit continuity occurs in an alternate universe?
     
  17. Darth_KindaEvilGuy

    Darth_KindaEvilGuy Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2001
    Yeah,

    Didn't they establish concurrent alternate realities in a TNG episode? That is the ultimate silver bullet for continuity buffs. It's kind of like the Earth-1, Earth-2, Earth-Prime deal that DC Comics had in pre-Crisis days (Jeez, did I just date myself?)
     
  18. Kane_Skywalker

    Kane_Skywalker Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jun 13, 2001
    It's a mirror universe.

    Anyway...I don't see why some people are are giving these sweeping generalizations that the SW continuity is "disjointed" and "filled with contradictions". Are you going by what the guys say in the movie forums? They don't know crap about the EU.

    There's very very few contradictions. And it all fits perfectly smooth. Buy yourself a copy of the Essential Chronology and see for yourself.
     
  19. Darth_KindaEvilGuy

    Darth_KindaEvilGuy Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Oct 29, 2001
    I really don't mean to be pedantic, but the mirror universe episode was in the original series (the evil guys had the goatees). I'm refering to the one in TNG where there were 3 or 4 Enterprises hovering around some sort of temporal distortion (of which there are many in the Trek universe). Big difference from the mirror universe.

    I know this post is off topic, but I can't stand being incorrectly corrected. Also, I didn't want to argue Trek canon, but to point out that an "alternate universe" can really serve as a dumpster for continuity errors.

    :)
     
  20. Sturm Antilles

    Sturm Antilles Former Manager star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 22, 2000
    Heck, I know nothing about Trek. I just remember something called "the mirror universe", where Kirk fights against Emperor Tiberius in an alternate universe, in the books written by Shatner.
     
  21. Mastadge

    Mastadge Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 4, 1999
    Yeah, there was the episode Parallels with liek hundreds of Enterprises.
     
  22. Knight1192

    Knight1192 Jedi Knight star 6

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    Feb 5, 2000
    It seems that most Star Wars books do not contradict each other, and that most of the time contradictions are actually cleared up in such a way that they no longer contradictions.
     
  23. JediLaw

    JediLaw Jedi Master star 3

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    Oct 30, 2001
    I actually have bought a copy of the essential chronology and have enjoyed reading it. But I have also noticed that some of the books are just skirted over . . . only garner a sentence or two. Why don't they incorporate the whole story into the EC? Because it would be ludicrous to do so. It just wouldn't fit. Yes, they mention several aspects of the Marvel series and the do mention SPIN (ugh) from the GoDV series . . . but I don't see references to a ton of other references.

    Gosh, I wish Dan Wallace would post here!!! :p
     
  24. Mastadge

    Mastadge Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 4, 1999
    He does, occasionally.
     
  25. Valiento

    Valiento Jedi Knight star 7

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    Mar 19, 2000
    Well, some thoughts. The producers of trek, still keep there oppinion that the trek stuff not seen in movies or series, are not part of continuity, and they will not go out of there way to follow them if they decide to make a sequel series. So yes while there is consistency with some "new" trek series. The producers have said they will ignore them in the aspect of there creations of new series.

    Secondly, The EC couldn't hold all the info. It mainly was a place for showcasing the more easily obtainable Randomhouse material(Old Bantam, del rey stuff(pre NJO)).

    So they covered what was main stuff that happened in the novels(and a few important DH comics) and briefly covered stuff from other sources. For instance, if going by your logic, Kyle Katarn, only briefly visted the drommund kaas temple in MOTS(that is all it says about it). Yet, alot more happened in the story than that. Infact that plot will affect upcoming Jedi Outcast. So the whole aspect of the story is valid, it just means that wallace didn't have enough space to get more detailed about it. As well, alot of WEG material couldn't be inserted as well, just way too much info, yet it's still valid.

    But you'll find that WOTC, has the room to be more detailed in there plethora of magazines and books, and so far has been giving articles, and links to Marvel, GODV, etc in those sources. Even TOS, has links to marvel, and GODV, which increases the details of that series, in other sources. So yes the whole story is valid, just the EC couldn't be big enough to hold every detail.

    GODV actually has little to no contradictions. The biggest one is the wedding, but the story actually ends before that takes place, and could have been easily be interrupted somehow. But if you like to believe that it did take place(There is slight evidence in jedi knight novels, with leia being organa solo) there are other theories to how it could be fixed. An annullment(LFL will never let that be printed though).

    But as you can see there are multiple versions of how that one error could be fixed.
     
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