Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by darklordoftech, Jun 19, 2013.
"Good is a point of view." All the manipulation. Palpatine's plotting.
Well Palpatine pretty much is completely evil. He only wants power. He has basically no redeeming qualities.
^Exactly. Unless your definition of "good" includes oppression and slaughter, I never saw it as much of an issue.
1. A theme of the Saga is that good and evil aren't objective.
2. Vader's not totally evil. He was just doing what was neccesary to save Padme.
It's common for villains to justify their villainy in altruistic terms:
"I did it to save my loved ones"
"I did it to save my people"
And so forth.
A case could be made that the Jedi weren't quite as good as they thought they were- they too seem willing to justify dubious acts now and again "for the greater good"
Still, even if it's Grey and Gray morality- they're still pretty far apart.
The OT was more Black and White. The Rebels were the good guys and the Empire was the bad guys.
The PT was more ambiguous. The Republic was good but was led by an evil person. I'm sure that there was good people in the CIS but the whole thing was manipulated by an evil person as well.
Galactic Civil War FTW!
What about the right to secceed? It's what America did in 1776.
What's mostly good? The Republic? America? The right to secceed?
Except that the Confederacy was never going to be allowed to seccede by it's rulers: Darths Sidious and Tyranus. Comparing the CIS to revolutionary America-or, indeed, any colonial rebellion against European masters in the last 200 years-is badly fudging reality to fit a false scenario.
What does that have to do with the Republic being good?
But isn't the whole Republic / Confederacy thing a facade created by the Sith? I'm not being rhetorical. I actually don't know the back story of the prequels that well. Would any of that stuff have happened without the Sith's manipulations?
@DarthDuckie: No. That's quite clear even in the context of just the films.
Again, what does any of this have to do with the Republic being good?
That the 'alternative' was arguably worse? I mean, if being lorded over by a) a corrupt Senate controlled by Sith Lords or b) a bunch of corrupt hyperbusinesses controlled by Sith Lords are my options, I'd say I'm leaving.
My point is that the "right to seccede" is 1) isn't typically recognized as a "right" to begin with (unless you seriously want to argue that the US Civil War was won by the bad guys) and 2) was a false flag in regards to the Republic, as the "seccionist" movement was never intended to be a genuinely independent nation to begin with.
So the story of the Republic and the Separatists is really evil v evil, because both sides are run by the same people. But that's not the story of the saga. The story of the saga is pretty clearly good v evil. I think the ambiguity is over-read.
Could it be said that the Republic turned to the Dark Side and became the Empire?
The Republic was decaying from the inside and with help from like-minded people Palpatine was able to bring about the Empire.
Who is 'The Republic' though? The Senate? The Senate and the Jedi? The people?
And was it decaying BECAUSE of Palpatine, or did Palpatine capitalise and exacerbate existing decay?
Star Wars is black and white in the sense that it clearly defines the characteristics of good (selflessness, bravery, honor, humility, etc) vs the characteristics of evil (deceitfulness, lust for power, lack of compassion, etc).
The ambiguity, If you want to call it that, comes from one of the most important things that the saga does: It shows that all of us, no matter who we are, have a capacity for good and for evil.
That's a message that struck true for me when I first heard "I am your father" at age 5, and still rings true today.
so true, and I believe that Luke symbolizes free will.
It happened during the Pius Dea era,
The second part. There were clearly many Senators who were clamoring for personal wealth and power. Without the Republic already being devoured by that greed Palpatine would have never been able to so easily start a war and turn the public against the Jedi.