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Saga How is the Saga black-and-white good and evil?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by darklordoftech, Jun 19, 2013.

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  1. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    "Good is a point of view." All the manipulation. Palpatine's plotting.
     
  2. ThatsNoPloKoon

    ThatsNoPloKoon Jedi Knight star 1

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    Apr 24, 2013
    Well Palpatine pretty much is completely evil. He only wants power. He has basically no redeeming qualities.
     
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  3. SlashMan

    SlashMan Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 5, 2012
    ^Exactly. Unless your definition of "good" includes oppression and slaughter, I never saw it as much of an issue.
     
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  4. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    1. A theme of the Saga is that good and evil aren't objective.
    2. Vader's not totally evil. He was just doing what was neccesary to save Padme.
     
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  5. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

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    Sep 2, 2012
    It's common for villains to justify their villainy in altruistic terms:

    "I did it to save my loved ones"
    "I did it to save my people"

    And so forth.

    A case could be made that the Jedi weren't quite as good as they thought they were- they too seem willing to justify dubious acts now and again "for the greater good"

    Still, even if it's Grey and Gray morality- they're still pretty far apart.
     
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  6. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

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    Sep 2, 2012
    The OT was more Black and White. The Rebels were the good guys and the Empire was the bad guys.
    The PT was more ambiguous. The Republic was good but was led by an evil person. I'm sure that there was good people in the CIS but the whole thing was manipulated by an evil person as well.
    Galactic Civil War FTW!
     
  7. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    What about the right to secceed? It's what America did in 1776.
     
  8. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Mostly good.
     
  9. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    What's mostly good? The Republic? America? The right to secceed?
     
  10. DarthBoba

    DarthBoba Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 29, 2000
    Except that the Confederacy was never going to be allowed to seccede by it's rulers: Darths Sidious and Tyranus. Comparing the CIS to revolutionary America-or, indeed, any colonial rebellion against European masters in the last 200 years-is badly fudging reality to fit a false scenario.
     
  11. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    What does that have to do with the Republic being good?
     
  12. MOC Vober Dand

    MOC Vober Dand Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jan 6, 2004
    But isn't the whole Republic / Confederacy thing a facade created by the Sith? I'm not being rhetorical. I actually don't know the back story of the prequels that well. Would any of that stuff have happened without the Sith's manipulations?
     
  13. DarthBoba

    DarthBoba Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 29, 2000
    DarthDuckie: No. That's quite clear even in the context of just the films.
     
  14. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    Again, what does any of this have to do with the Republic being good?
     
  15. DarthBoba

    DarthBoba Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 29, 2000
    That the 'alternative' was arguably worse? I mean, if being lorded over by a) a corrupt Senate controlled by Sith Lords or b) a bunch of corrupt hyperbusinesses controlled by Sith Lords are my options, I'd say I'm leaving.

    My point is that the "right to seccede" is 1) isn't typically recognized as a "right" to begin with (unless you seriously want to argue that the US Civil War was won by the bad guys) and 2) was a false flag in regards to the Republic, as the "seccionist" movement was never intended to be a genuinely independent nation to begin with.
     
  16. MOC Vober Dand

    MOC Vober Dand Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jan 6, 2004
    So the story of the Republic and the Separatists is really evil v evil, because both sides are run by the same people. But that's not the story of the saga. The story of the saga is pretty clearly good v evil. I think the ambiguity is over-read.
     
  17. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

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    Sep 2, 2012
    The Republic.
     
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  18. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    Could it be said that the Republic turned to the Dark Side and became the Empire?
     
  19. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

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    Sep 2, 2012
    The Republic was decaying from the inside and with help from like-minded people Palpatine was able to bring about the Empire.
     
  20. MOC Vober Dand

    MOC Vober Dand Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jan 6, 2004
    Who is 'The Republic' though? The Senate? The Senate and the Jedi? The people?

    And was it decaying BECAUSE of Palpatine, or did Palpatine capitalise and exacerbate existing decay?
     
  21. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
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  22. Han Burgundy

    Han Burgundy Jedi Master star 3

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    Jan 28, 2013
    Star Wars is black and white in the sense that it clearly defines the characteristics of good (selflessness, bravery, honor, humility, etc) vs the characteristics of evil (deceitfulness, lust for power, lack of compassion, etc).

    The ambiguity, If you want to call it that, comes from one of the most important things that the saga does: It shows that all of us, no matter who we are, have a capacity for good and for evil.

    That's a message that struck true for me when I first heard "I am your father" at age 5, and still rings true today.
     
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  23. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    so true, and I believe that Luke symbolizes free will.
     
  24. Kay Suhyun

    Kay Suhyun Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Apr 29, 2013
    It happened during the Pius Dea era,
     
  25. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 4, 2012
    The second part. There were clearly many Senators who were clamoring for personal wealth and power. Without the Republic already being devoured by that greed Palpatine would have never been able to so easily start a war and turn the public against the Jedi.
     
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