Saga How is the Saga black-and-white good and evil?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by darklordoftech, Jun 19, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    "Good is a point of view." All the manipulation. Palpatine's plotting.
  2. ThatsNoPloKoon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2013
    star 1
    Well Palpatine pretty much is completely evil. He only wants power. He has basically no redeeming qualities.
    Adrian the Cool likes this.
  3. SlashMan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2012
    star 3
    ^Exactly. Unless your definition of "good" includes oppression and slaughter, I never saw it as much of an issue.
    VadersLaMent likes this.
  4. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    1. A theme of the Saga is that good and evil aren't objective.
    2. Vader's not totally evil. He was just doing what was neccesary to save Padme.
    Last edited by darklordoftech, Jun 19, 2013
    Seagoat likes this.
  5. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    It's common for villains to justify their villainy in altruistic terms:

    "I did it to save my loved ones"
    "I did it to save my people"

    And so forth.

    A case could be made that the Jedi weren't quite as good as they thought they were- they too seem willing to justify dubious acts now and again "for the greater good"

    Still, even if it's Grey and Gray morality- they're still pretty far apart.
    DarthDuckie likes this.
  6. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    The OT was more Black and White. The Rebels were the good guys and the Empire was the bad guys.
    The PT was more ambiguous. The Republic was good but was led by an evil person. I'm sure that there was good people in the CIS but the whole thing was manipulated by an evil person as well.
    Galactic Civil War FTW!
  7. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    What about the right to secceed? It's what America did in 1776.
    Last edited by darklordoftech, Jun 19, 2013
  8. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Mostly good.
  9. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    What's mostly good? The Republic? America? The right to secceed?
  10. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Except that the Confederacy was never going to be allowed to seccede by it's rulers: Darths Sidious and Tyranus. Comparing the CIS to revolutionary America-or, indeed, any colonial rebellion against European masters in the last 200 years-is badly fudging reality to fit a false scenario.
  11. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    What does that have to do with the Republic being good?
  12. MOC Yak Face Old Films' Curator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2004
    star 4
    But isn't the whole Republic / Confederacy thing a facade created by the Sith? I'm not being rhetorical. I actually don't know the back story of the prequels that well. Would any of that stuff have happened without the Sith's manipulations?
  13. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    @DarthDuckie: No. That's quite clear even in the context of just the films.
  14. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    Again, what does any of this have to do with the Republic being good?
  15. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    That the 'alternative' was arguably worse? I mean, if being lorded over by a) a corrupt Senate controlled by Sith Lords or b) a bunch of corrupt hyperbusinesses controlled by Sith Lords are my options, I'd say I'm leaving.

    My point is that the "right to seccede" is 1) isn't typically recognized as a "right" to begin with (unless you seriously want to argue that the US Civil War was won by the bad guys) and 2) was a false flag in regards to the Republic, as the "seccionist" movement was never intended to be a genuinely independent nation to begin with.
  16. MOC Yak Face Old Films' Curator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2004
    star 4
    So the story of the Republic and the Separatists is really evil v evil, because both sides are run by the same people. But that's not the story of the saga. The story of the saga is pretty clearly good v evil. I think the ambiguity is over-read.
  17. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    The Republic.
    darklordoftech likes this.
  18. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    Could it be said that the Republic turned to the Dark Side and became the Empire?
  19. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    The Republic was decaying from the inside and with help from like-minded people Palpatine was able to bring about the Empire.
  20. MOC Yak Face Old Films' Curator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2004
    star 4
    Who is 'The Republic' though? The Senate? The Senate and the Jedi? The people?

    And was it decaying BECAUSE of Palpatine, or did Palpatine capitalise and exacerbate existing decay?
    Last edited by DarthDuckie, Jun 19, 2013
  21. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    DarthDuckie likes this.
  22. Han Burgundy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2013
    star 3
    Star Wars is black and white in the sense that it clearly defines the characteristics of good (selflessness, bravery, honor, humility, etc) vs the characteristics of evil (deceitfulness, lust for power, lack of compassion, etc).

    The ambiguity, If you want to call it that, comes from one of the most important things that the saga does: It shows that all of us, no matter who we are, have a capacity for good and for evil.

    That's a message that struck true for me when I first heard "I am your father" at age 5, and still rings true today.
    Last edited by Han Burgundy, Jun 19, 2013
    Sarge likes this.
  23. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    so true, and I believe that Luke symbolizes free will.
  24. Kay Suhyun Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2013
    star 1
    It happened during the Pius Dea era,
  25. The Supreme Chancellor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    The second part. There were clearly many Senators who were clamoring for personal wealth and power. Without the Republic already being devoured by that greed Palpatine would have never been able to so easily start a war and turn the public against the Jedi.
    darklordoftech likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.