How is the story bad?

there is no storyline, people just run around doing random things.

 

Yeah T-Mac you're right. I really didn't like the scene when Yoda randomly killed the Jedi council.

 

O...K...I must have missed that one.

 

That would've been random.

 

I think sdj might have started this thread in response to a comment I made in another thread. Let me just set the record straight.

I think the story is NOT bad. It is actually pretty good when taken as an overall thing, but I just personally feel that it was perhaps just a touch convoluted. It took me a few viewings to quite figure out what was actually going on, what with mysterious orders involving the creation of Clone Troopers etc. It DOES make sense, but for a Star Wars movie, which normally have quite economical and straightforward plots, it was a bit unusual having such a plot that (purposefully) chases its own tail. I don't think it really fits in. TPM's plot was also quite hard to grasp, but AOTC makes that look simple. I don't think the story's bad, but it is a bit unecessarily complicated. I suppose Episode III will resolve a lot of stuff, but I sure hope it keeps things a bit more straightforward: it enhaces the impact of the story if it GRABS you and takes you along for the ride, instead of the viewer having to spend the whole movie figuring out how to get into the story. So, I don't think it is BAD, but I just think it is a bit untidy, IMO. That doesn't mean I think the plot is dumb: rather the contrary: it is too complex, for a Star Wars movie. And when you mix that with the purposefully simplistic dialogue and characterizations, it creates a bit of uneveness in the film. I'm glad the visuals hold it all together, though.

-JDR.

 

I love the new things Lucas is trying. I wanted some more of the Political stuff because I found it very interesting. Gives more backstory and how the Empire rises.

 

Plot-wise AotC, and the Prequels in general, really put the Originals to shame.

They're a lot more complicated and deceptive.

Of course that's part of some people's problem with them. The Originals were absurdly simplistic (not that that's bad) good vs. evil.

 

Watch out son of lucas! Some bashers will impale you for such blasphemy!

 

AOTC's story was brilliant. All of it, the politics, the romance, the action. They all encompass the final outcome of the saga.

And just what kind of Star Wars film doesn't have action, action, action? Sorry guy, but that's a Star Trek film.

 

IMO (so many of them floating around), AOTC's story (or the entire prequel saga) is not a bad storyline. But Plot is nothing without execution. It is slightly convoluted in it's approach... the way that George insists that we must see build-up but no payoff (i.e. Obi-wan's obvious match-pair-up with Jango and then Jango fights Mace...). George seems to have missed the boat as far as how he initially peceived the Star Wars story to be told... broad brish strokes and an almost simplistic and idealistic way of telling a story. Star Wars has become about over exposing the audience to exposition and needless scenes (how many times does George feel that I need to see that Anakin suffers from nightmares... wow!!! The collective audience IQ must be 40 points lower than what it was 30 years ago). These are story mistakes that George never would've made back in the "old days". There was a speed and urgency to his storytelling which allowed him to stay one step ahead of his audience at all times, and yet, for all the good things that empower these prequel films, they feel bogged down and grossly weighted with poor editing, uninspired dialogue... where's my "we have no time to discuss this as a committee"... "I am not a committee!!"??

The story definately moves, but in a rather roundabout way. There is no conservation of "energy" (like an Olympic distance event). George seems to want to show us so much that by the time we reach the end, it unimpresses (at least for me... even though the final 20 minutes of AOTC are far superior to anything else in the prequels thusfar).

 

Son of Lucas, saying the OT was absurdly simplistic is absurd in itself. It went deeper than good v. evil

 

No, I've always felt that's what made the OT so perfect. Those films are simple in their execution and storyline and that's what makes them so brilliant.

 

I've really enjoyed the storyline of the PT. Yes, its more complicated than the OT, when you watch ANH, within 5 minutes, you have stormtroopers and this big guy in a black suit looking for "plans". Eventually its all explained in a nice neat package by the end of the movie. I think the same will happen with the PT. The problem with the PT is that the storyline is more complex. Political storylines can't be wrapped up in one movie, and with the PT not even with 2. The rise of Palpatine alone is a complex story that I think has been really interesting. And Palpy also leads you into the fall of the republic and the rise of the empire. Not to mention Palpatine is also using politics as a means to mask his evil Sith intentions. Pretty deep stuff. Now add the main character, Anakin. Explain how he becomes a Jedi, falls in love, and then is influenced by the dark side. Add another secondary character who isn't really secondary: Obi-Wan. Show his rise to Jedi, and his failure as Jedi Master. On top of all this sprinkle in the droids, the Jedi council, and Padme's story. That is a ton of stuff, that can't be explained easily, or quickly. And as I sit here and think more about it. GL has to write this stuff so that it still fits into the OT.

Compared to the OT. The PT's storyline is way more complex. The OT is your classic boy from the farm saves the day. Still exploring the empire and Han, and Vader. But really none of the politacal drama that we have with the PT.

I'd love to hear some more examples by those who think its bad as to what makes it so. Again, please no SFX, or acting stuff. Just storyline.

 

"How is the story bad?"

I wouldn't say the story is bad it's just that alot of people have a gripe with the execution of the story.It may look great on paper,but may not translate into greatness on film.

 

Give an example George.

 

I don't think the story was bad at all. There were a few areas of the script that really needed to have tightened up a bit, but apart from that, it was a massive improvement on The Phantom Menace, I think.

 

"Give an example George."

okidoki

Hmmm....example...example...I can't really think of any at this moment.But I'm sure there have been movies with great scripts that were hurt by bad acting and poor directing.So the story looked great on paper but not when it was rendered.

 

Quite a bit of the storyline and the world of the PT is too complex for most people. Good and evil are not as simply defined, and the plots of the movies are intentionally complex. Basically none of the character really know what's going on except one: Palpatine.

And that's the beauty of these movies to me. I didn't want an overly simple, play it safe rehash of what was done 25 years ago. Had the PT had a similar storyline to the OT and had the same look and feel, I personally would have felt completely ripped off. They're similar enough in terms of atmosphere to be recognisable as the same galaxy, but different enough that they feel fresh. I mean, I did not want 3 movies worth of Obi-Wan, Anakin and Padme running from Stormtroopers, thank you very much.

 

The question is AOTC, not TPM, so let me say that story wise, AOTC was very good. Maybe change the story so that Anakin was a more mature person, but aside from that, story was good. And AOTC did feel like an epic, there were galaxy changing events, characters developed, etc.

Maybe if TPM had been different, AOTC could have developed differently in a way that we all would pretty much agree is better, but we will never know. As is, AOTC did tell the story pretty well. I honestly think that TPM was mostly fluff, and it was not an epic at all, but that is not the point at hand.

The clone wars are not like I imagined it, but it still works. They are still good and cool. Yeah, I was imagining Fett armored troops fighting Jedi, but it works as is (thinking about it, I don't know how the Republic fit into what I thought it would be like, showing just how bad my vision of it was).

Luke and Anakin on Tatoieen, no big deal. It makes sense too. I mean, if Anakin?s (step) brother stayed on Tatoieen, then it makes sense for Anakin to have lived there.
People have said that the back story of the Sith/Jedi is not important to the saga, but why is the story of why the TF is upset at the Republic needed?

This is stretching it a little bit, but the one thing I would change is make Anakin a lot more mature. It is not so much story, but it is not dialogue or SFX or what not. It also affects his actions, and as such, the story of the whole PT.

He was a whinny brat! At this point, it should be obvious (as long as you think about it) to even people who have not seen the OT that Anakin is going to fall. We expect it, and what?s more we can expect him to be redeemed. Take the whole thing with the death of his mom. He lost someone precious to him, he did something evil, but once his mind cleared he knew what he did was wrong, and tried to do the right thing after that. What?s more, he is close to another person who is helping him stay with the light side.

When E3 comes around, obviously he will lose Padme, whether she dies or leaves or whatnot. We can assume that as long as no one is there to justify to him why he should stay a Jedi, he will become evil. Yet we will also know that Luke and Liea are alive and well, and we can accurately guess that once Anakin and his children get together, Anakin will come back to the good side.

Basically, the story of the PT should not make it that obvious, and I think the best way to do that without changing too much, and solving most of the other complaints of AOTC, would be to make Anakin more mature. Have him be calmer when he confesses to Padme and make it questionable if he really regrets it.

 

I like the story a lot and everything about AotC, its a really awesome movie. And also im not one to bash SW, im a huge Star Wars fan and im not gonna bash something I enjoy.

 

Oakessteve,

What parts of the script do you think could've been tightened up?

 

IMO

the plot is very well worked out, when you think of the amount of plot elements Lucas had to fit together it really is amazing. But plot isn't the whole story. For me the weakness of the film is in the characterizations and the chemistry between those characters.
When i compare the PT to the OT the OT is much better in terms of characters, I loved all the characters in the OT by the end of ANH, but with the PT the main characters Obi Wan, Anakin and Padme are severely hampered by TPM, they have improved greatly in AOTC but not enough, for instance : where is this famous friendship between Anakin and Ben ? It's hardly there. And it should be there because when we get to ep. 3 it should be a great tragedy that these great friends fall out. but in AOTC Anakin is already grumpy with Obi Wan.
In the OT the characters are so great and their chemistry is so good, for me this is the let down of the prequels.
Having said all that - I really do like AOTC, I've watched it many times, I think the storyline flows brilliantly and Anakin is a lot more interesting now.
I think its also time people realised how good someone like Mark Hamill is, it's not easy to act in these movies, but I'm going off topic, sorry.

gez

 

I dont think the story is bad. I actually think its great

 

it's okay. cool battles and scenery and visual effects. But the story could've been greater, IMO.

 

I think there are 2 ways to look at the storyline.

1) The story based on all of the spoilers speculation and discussion, combined with the movie.

or

2) the movie by itself.

Going with # 2 is not nearly as fulfilling. For example take Count Dooku. Anyone around hear before the movie came out was certyain that Dooku was an "elegant" Sith, full of class, grace and so much more intelligent and talkative than Maul. He was aslo supposed to be a serious trash-talker during duels. But did he live up to this billing? I don't think so. not even close. He does not really have much of a role in the film.

If you want to see how a film can be done with a real msyterious, "never-seen" phantom villain, see Usual Suspects. That's how it's done. Star Wars, with all of its money, fanbase and time, should be able to achieve a real mystery. I don't think the storyline is that bad but I think that a lot of people on these boards are biased by all of the background info we had going into the film. These movies force us to fill in way too many blanks to be seen as great stories.

[/i]"Also, the whole Sith/Jedi backstory was not even explained. Darth Maul is onscreen for 3 minutes tops, saying stuff like, "At last we will have revenge." Why do they want revenge? George Lucas hints at great things in the movie, but never shows them. "[/i]

I agree.

The Jedi/Sith backstory is not important.."

Well, one would imagine it's just a little bit important.