How Jedi turn exactly to the dark side?

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by BlenderWars, Feb 20, 2013.

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  1. TaradosGon SWTV Mod - Like Palpatine with animals

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    For TOR I can agree with, with KOTOR less so. In KOTOR there are characters that will acknowledge your change of appearance, and within the context of the story the Jedi were pretty much forced to rely on Revan and Bastilla to save the day, so even if you were slipping to the Dark Side, I think all they could do is simply let you carry out your mission and pray for the best.

    Whereas in TOR, yeah it makes less sense because you should be more expendable. But I'm not even talking about simply player characters. NPC Sith show great variety in appearance. NPC Jedi are all pretty much just normal, but the Sith can range from normal to monstrous.
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  2. 07jonesj Force Ghost

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    @TaradosGon Yeah, I agree with your post. If it were just the games, I could fob it off as "to look cool", but the inconsistency is remarkably consistent in the novels, comics and the films/TV show.

    I guess, for the moment, it is just artistic interpretation though, as there is no clear cut reason why these Sith can vary so dramatically in appearance despite their different levels of Force mastery.
    Last edited by 07jonesj, Feb 22, 2013
  3. Rawne Force Ghost

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    "It is such a quiet thing to fall... But far more terrible as to admit it"


    Damn gameplay mechanics.
    Last edited by Rawne, Feb 22, 2013
  4. TaradosGon SWTV Mod - Like Palpatine with animals

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    Personally I thought the Exile's story was pretty sweet, albeit felt rushed and incomplete, yet the whole freaking game here's Kreia telling me how I'll never be as good as Revan and Revan this and Revan that, and Revan found out how to walk both the dark side and the light side, blah blah blah.

    I was there. I controlled Revan. I know what happened. He was a cool dude, but he was not the super-duper-spend-every-sentence-praising-him-dude that Kreia made him out to be.

    I just kind of stopped putting too much stock in anything she said.

    Apparently I should never give a beggar money because then he'll just get killed by another beggar. But if I don't give that beggar money, then he'll just become desperate and start killing people himself.
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Feb 22, 2013
  5. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    I wonder if I've turned to the darkside. I've imagined myself force choking people before. <<;
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  6. General Immodet Jedi Grand Master

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    The article was about the decay of the bodies of Sith who extensively use dark side powers.
    That is why many Sith look older than they really are. Some Sith wear those scars with pride while others hide themselves behind a mask. Many apprentices die at a very young age because of using their powers too much. Therefore, Sith have to use the Force to prolong their lives.
    Actually, it was quite interesting. It was a bit like jonesj said. Since it was an long article, I will not write it down. I hope you understand. My apologies.
    I recommend the TOR Encyclopedia to you all. It was a beautiful book. I loved to read it although I do not even play the game. It contained some other articles about the Sith apart from the one I just mentioned.
    Last edited by General Immodet, Feb 24, 2013
  7. PMT99 Force Ghost

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    I know that Sidious isn't a pretender but as you said, he had to refrain from using the dark side. He didn't want any Jedi to sense his power until such time when he is ready to reveal his presence to them.
  8. rumsmuggler Chosen One

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    All a Jedi has to do to turn to the dark side is to kill in anger, use the force to directly kill someone, use the force for selfish reasons, etc... There is a range of darkness in dark or rouge Jedi from not too bad to full on dangerous and deadly. Also, as have been said already, there is a difference between a Sith and Dark Jedi.
  9. Quirkiness101 Jedi Master

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    The magic of plot convenience ;)
  10. HEDGESMFG Force Ghost

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    In general, I assume the yellow eyes are a state a character reaches when they find themselves filled with the dark side's rage and power. Or simply when they use great amounts of it. Some characters like Sidious, Maul, and ROTS Vader choose to live in it entirely, while others summon it selectively (Dooku) but are changed when they do. Combine this with the TOR explanation for Sith bodies rotting as they use their powers and you have a somewhat detailed, but still slightly ambiguous answer for everything Sith related.

    Dooku's eyes change when he summons the full might of his power. Sidious' eyes change when he does the same, and as the Emperor he no longer needs to hide the power he possesses. Nor does Anakin. Nor Maul. They embrace and meditate on the dark side continuously, and so their eyes glow a ghastly yellow, filled with its true power. I suppose it could also represent a mastery of the dark side, and a personal embracing of it. Perhaps some Sith use the darkness, but do not meditate or live in it to the same extent as others. Or perhaps the Sith Emperor's different bodies react differently to the Dark Side.
    Last edited by HEDGESMFG, Feb 27, 2013
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  11. Darkskar95 Jedi Master

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    Feb 25, 2013
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    They slice of someone's hand while they try to destroy Palpatine.
  12. ImNotAStarWarsFanboy Force Ghost

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    And then we all remember that they're just contact lenses.

    PROBLEM SOLVED, NEXT QUESTION PLS
  13. General Immodet Jedi Grand Master

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    The company manufacturing contact lenses probably got many demands after the Emperor hooked up.
  14. TaradosGon SWTV Mod - Like Palpatine with animals

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    If they wanted to go the "Force mask" route like TOR did*, then that would leave the door open for Palpatine to show up in TCW looking like this.

    [IMG]

    Something I would very much like to see (again, if they went the mask route) since it would allow the character more face time without running into discontinuity. E.G. Palpatine could contact the CIS looking like that, or even meet them in person, without running into the issue of the CIS leaders realizing that is Chancellor Palpatine. They could even go so far as to have a Jedi confront Palpatine (looking like that), "discovering" that he is the second Sith Lord, but never realizing that it's the Chancellor.

    However, I currently take the Plagueis novel, since it was written relatively recently and had some input from Lucas, to be a somewhat reliable source despite being a novel, and in that there really is no indication that Palpatine is a shriveled old sorcerer hiding behind a "mask." And Lawless would have been a reasonable place to show Palpatine without the mask, if he was indeed hiding behind one, yet he still just looks like normal old Palpatine (minus the teeth). So I really don't think they'll go the route of a mask.

    *
    TOR spoiler (open)
    *In the Sith Inquisitor storyline of TOR, the character of Darth Zash looks very much like Palpatine and claims that she is dying from over use of the Dark Side. She hides behind a mask she maintains through Sith ritual to appear young, but ultimately wishes to perform a new ritual to transfer her soul to a younger body.
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Mar 1, 2013
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  15. Kraviec Jedi Youngling

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    Mar 8, 2013
    I think Wikipedia says something about this somewhere. Actually the appearance change varies. Some remain unchanged, like Dooku, most go Palpatine style and some are transformed as severely as Darth Nihilus.
    Found the quote, it's in the Dark Side of the Force article on wookie
    "Will I eventually be physically transformed?"
    "Into some aged, pale-skinned, raspy-voiced, yellow-eyed monster, you mean. Such as the one you see before you. Surely you are aquainted with the lore: King Ommin of Onderon, Darths Sion and Nihilus. But whether it will happen to you, I can't say. Know this, though, Sidious, that the power of the dark side does not debilitate the practitioner so much as it debilitates those who lack it. The power of the dark side is an illness no true Sith would ever wish to be cured of.
    "Palpatine and Plagueis.
  16. darklordoftech Force Ghost

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    I believe Darth Plagueis implies that Palpatine's face transformed because he absorbed the strength of the lightning into his force powers.
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  17. TaradosGon SWTV Mod - Like Palpatine with animals

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    It's vague. There is a passage in which Plagueis tells Sidious that Force lightning has the ability to physically transform someone. However, in the passages that @Kraviec posted, Plagueis also compares being a "monster" to Nihilus, whose transformation is said in KOTOR 2 (if I remember correctly) to be the result of following ancient Sith teachings found at Malachor, not the result of being hit by Force lightning.

    OOU, I think Lucas flip flopped on the idea.

    For instance in some publicity stills for AOTC, Palpatine looks like he is just beginning to turn sickly.

    [IMG]

    He is spotted, and his eye lids are reddened. I can't remember if he looked like this in the film itself or just in makeup tests. The microseries kind of exaggerated this representation of him too.

    [IMG]

    The idea seemed to be that Palpatine would gradually deteriorate and turn into his ROTJ appearance over time. The EU ran with that idea in games like KOTOR where your character turns pale and gets yellow eyes as you sink toward the dark side. However, then in ROTS Lucas seemed to abandon the idea.

    Palpatine just looks normal again.

    [IMG]

    But now he transforms very quickly after having his lightning deflected upon him. No explanation is given in the film aside from Palpatine blaming the Jedi for it in front of the senate. Other sources have been divided - some say it was the lightning that transformed him, and others imply that he really looks like a monster but uses a "mask" (either via the Force or through alchemy) to appear normal.

    Darth Plagueis seems to leave the door open for either possibility, though it's odd that if Palpatine wears a "mask" that it is never mentioned.

    The EU on the other hand now is in an awkward position since none of the Sith on screen really deteriorate in appearance, Palpatine was the only one, but that seems to now be the result of the lightning. Meanwhile the EU has for years established that deterioration will result from continued use of the Dark Side.

    I think the EU is trying to reconcile what is on screen with what they've had established for years.

    The problem with the lightning theory is that it just seems like a tool of convenience. Yoda, Luke, Mace, Asajj, Savage, Maul, etc. were never physically transformed. Palpatine was. Darth Plagueis says that this can happen, but doesn't really delve into why or how.

    However, I could understand why Lucas decided to go down that route of using lightning as an excuse, since it would just be odd if Palpatine was physically deteriorating gradually and none of the Jedi noticed.
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Mar 8, 2013
  18. darklordoftech Force Ghost

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    What I was saying Plaguies implies is that when you get hit by force lightning, you can perform a ritual to absorb its power. That ritual transforms your face.
  19. TaradosGon SWTV Mod - Like Palpatine with animals

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    I apologize if I created confusion and made you think my entire post was directed at you. Everything prior to "OOU, I think Lucas flip flopped on the idea" in my last post was directed as a response to what you said, the rest was my explanation for why I feel the Plagueis novel kept things vague.

    Yes, Plagueis suggests that lightning can transform a person. But like I said, Plagueis also mentions EU characters that have transformed in ways that have nothing to do with lightning - like Sion and Nihilus.
  20. darklordoftech Force Ghost

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    Whose to say there aren't multiple body-transforming rituals?
    Last edited by darklordoftech, Mar 8, 2013
  21. TaradosGon SWTV Mod - Like Palpatine with animals

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    Nobody. The EU can do whatever they want in that regard.
  22. darklordoftech Force Ghost

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    exactly
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