How long are SSDs in width?

OK, let's look at it this way. The people who designed and built the thing (i.e. ILM) say that the Executer is 11 times the length of an ISD (i.e 17.6 km). People who look at the thing say that it is 11 times the length of an ISD i.e. 17.6 km). Someone who writes an article states that it is 12.8 km in length.

Is this not similar to the scenario of an observer questioning the length of the Titanic vs. the 'as built plans'? If so, sorry guys, 17.6 km it is and we can all rest in piece that this debate is no longer required.

 

[image=http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/chron/encounter.jpg]

There, irrefutable proof that a Lambda is around twice the size of the Executor.

 

And it's larger than the Death Star too!

 

Heya, Bib! Figured I might as well join in the party. I'll say a few things:

1. I can name 5 scenes from the films (as stated in the "Capturing Star Destroyers" thread) which show the ship to NOT be 11x the size of an ISD. You may claim "the 'smallest size' is 11x", but the point remains: there are OTHER, more numerous scenes which show this to not be the case. If anything, they void your size esitmates.
You may choose to not acknowledge those other scenes, or claim they don't exist, but the fact remains that they do. Get someone else to verify 'em and post screenshots. They include:
1. The scene you referenced, with the piss-poor angles of both the ISD and the SSD, with no way to gauge distance between the two of 'em
2. The scene 2 seconds prior to the Imperial officer barging into Vader's quarters, when Vader has his helmet off
3. The scene when we first see the Executor in RotJ
4. The scene when Lando questions why the Star Destroyers aren't attacking, in RotJ
5. Arvel Crynyd hitting the bridge, in RotJ
Check the tapes (anyone. I'm not just talking to Bib).

2. I'll simply quote myself from the other thread; it'll save time:
::sighs:: I think the point I'm trying to make is this: You've got some opinions on a specific scene. I've got opinions on those same scenes. Mine are just as valid as yours are. Yours are not "better" than mine. But... they're still opinions. They aren't canon. No matter how many times you say it, I still think you're nuts when you say "the Executor is 17.6km, according to the film". I can, and have, cite instances when this doesn't seem to be the case. I'm using movie evidence to support my claim, just like you are. But.. your opinion, which you think is correct, still isn't canon. In fact, neither is mine, and neither is anyone else's. No fan's opinion is canon. Seeing as how there's a bunch of ways to interpret the film, and none of them are "wrong", because there's no such thing as a wrong opinion, then there is no "canon" definition of the length of the Executor within the films. It's ambiguous and unclear to the point that it's unreliable. If it wasn't unreliable, then we wouldn't be having this debate. Either you or I would have already conceded to what IS "correct", beyond a shadow of a doubt.

But.. I guess the thing that needles me the most is you taking your opinion, purporting it as *fact*, and expecting everyone else to buy it. It's an opinion. There is no such thing as a canon "opinion", let alone one from a fan. I really don't care what you think you're seeing, just as you don't care what you think I'm seeing. You think I'm full of it, and I assure you, the feeling is mutual. But.. the point remains; your interpretation of the scene isn't canon. It never will be. Don't try to claim it is. You can get all the "movie support" you want, but I've got just as much against yours. You may think mine is "wrong", but I think the same about yours. So.. it negates both. We both don't have accurate, conclusive support from the films. They shouldn't be used in this debate, because it's so unclear (from my perspective, which is just as valid as your perspective).

Here's a relating story:
On the AvP boards I Moderate, there's a massive debate over how many different types of aliens there are. I say there's two, and I use about 300 individual points of evidence from the films to support this. But.. there's those that don't buy it. In the face of all my on-camera, canon evidence, they don't buy it.
And they're totally entitled to.
My opinion of what I'm interpreting on-screen isn't canon. Flat-out. It ain't canon. It's simply my interpretation. And since it's my interpretation, and it's not conclusively shown in the films to the satisfaction of other fans, it never will be canon (of course, FOX DID end up coming down from the heavens and saying "there are two types of aliens", but that's beside the point).

Same thing applies here. So long as other people can interpret the same thing differently from eachother, their opinions are not canon. It's like me analyzing a scen

 

None of this gets us away from the fact that the people who designed and built the Executer model state that it is 11 times the length of an ISD - they even give a referance point - the conning tower. OK, granted that this is a semi-standard design but each design does tend to be of a similar size. Measure up from the conning tower on the ISD and compare it to a conning tower on an SSD and you end up with 17.6 km.

For the SSD to be 12.8 km (or 8 km as was) the conning tower would be smaller than for an ISD. Common sense states that a bigger ship would have a bridge at least as big as the smaller ship in the same family. In addition, look at the size of the bridge in ESB - its HUGE, no way is it smaller than an ISD bridge.

 

Die, thread, DIE!

 

Sorry guys, I've just read the capturing Star Destroyers' thread. I will not post about this again, promise.

 

Bib:
Die, thread, DIE!

Hmm... if you want the thread to "die" so much, why'd you post in it twice today? If there's anything I've learned from Moderating 6 messageboards, it's that if you personally don't want to see a thread anymore, don't read it (I mean, come on. Duh) and most of all, don't reply to it. That's like telling a Troll (in messageboard-terms) off. Telling him or her off only shows them that they're doing a good job; they're pissing you off, which is exactly what they set out to do.

jafo:
A few things.
1. What's a "conning tower"?
2. Do you mean the Bridge tower and spine? The thing with the two shield generator "bulbs" on top? Why on earth would the tower be *smaller* than on an ISD? Also, the bridge could easily be the same size; it's called "efficiency" (although yes, the SSD itself *does* fly in the face of "efficient use of materiel"). Why make the Bridge any bigger? You don't need to. The SSD bridge we see in the films is identical (interior and exterior) to the ISD bridges we see.

None of this gets us away from the fact that the people who designed and built the Executer model state that it is 11 times the length of an ISD

A one thing about that:
There's a concept one must understand if they're looking for an in-universe explanation for things: the explanations must all come from "in-universe". Behind-the-scenes stuff doesn't count. So.. the tech crew could say that the wide-angle model for the SSD is 4cm long, and the ISD model is the size of a Winnebago -- that has NO bearing on the "actual" sizes of the ships, especially since with camera tricks and blue-screens, the tech crews could use the same size models to make the ships look different sizes. Thus, no matter what the tech crews say, it's irrelevant. It means nothing, proves nothing, and has no bearing on the case at hand. (and, unlike Bib who declares things in opposing arguments "irrelevant" arbitrarily, I actually SHOW why it's irrelevant)

 

Can I say it? Please, please, can I can I?

Either way I'm gonna' say it anyway:

GET OVER IT! You're acting like small minded littel children.

An SSD is ...km long and ...km wide! Didn't we just leave this party...?

Man, this was just thrashed this out et nauseum AGAIN in the Capturing Star Destroyers thread.

They are bloody long and bloody wide. And before some clever twit starts a new thread about it, they're bloody high too! possibly not ...km, but certainly ...m! {screams incoherently goes and bashes drums for an hour, smashing three sticks before finally composing himself to continue...}

Hey Mods, can't we start a ban on inflamatory topics in here?(!) Like this is getting stupid and petty. This time we had the same arguments from the previous what, 2 or three SSD related threads being dredged up again, with the same culprits at it once again - okay, this time it was started by a WIDTH question, but the end result is always gonna' be ther same!)

Seriously guys, I don't not hate you, but this is stupid and childish. Why don't you debate this sort of thing in via a PM not the open board? There are those of us who are sick of your juvenility and constant "I'm right and you're wrong stuff." Maybe I'll start a new topic about the legendary words of my Master, Yoda: "Size matters not. Judge me by my size do you? And so you should not."

Big isn't always better! and sometimes, the bigger the worse! Remember the Death Star...

Come on guys, let's get on and debate the real things that matter: Like killing Tsavvy and revenging ourselves upon Shesh and rescuing our mate Jacen! and for those of you who believe in resurrection, bringing Anakin back from the dead! Well, what else am I gonna' say!

Okay, I'm going before someone takes offence at my offence!

Just doing what many others can't.

Try my new thread!

 

Erm, MasterDownUnder, if you don't like the water, don't jump in the pool. Or, put more bluntly, don't read threads that don't interest you, and don't complain when users DO read/post in thread that DO interest them.

 

Damn, I said I wouldn't post to this again.

Syntax, the conning tower size is my whole point. If the towers are the same on both the ISD and the SSD then surely it is just a matter of scaling up from the respective models. We know that an ISD is 1.6 km long therefore measuring the proportions of the length of the model to the size of the tower on the model gives a length of the tower (about 50 m based on the picture in From Star Wars to indiana Jones).

Then measureing the size of the tower in the picture of the SSD from The Art of Empire and scaling up to the full length of the ship you get a length of around 19 km. Admittedly these are rough and ready measurements but they do give some idea of scale and sizes.

As an aside, if anyone is going to the exhibition in Edinburgh maybe you could try to measure the actual models in some way and scale up more acuratly from there?

 

If the towers are the same on both the ISD and the SSD then surely it is just a matter of scaling up from the respective models. We know that an ISD is 1.6 km long therefore measuring the proportions of the length of the model to the size of the tower on the model gives a length of the tower (about 50 m based on the picture in From Star Wars to indiana Jones).

1. I say again, what's a "conning tower"?

2. It still proves nothing. You can't say the bridge for an ISD is proportionally large to a SSD -- they could be the same exact size; there's no reason for it to be bigger. OR, it could be 20x the size. All I know is, I've got schematics for an ISD bridge, and I've got schematics for a SSD bridge.

Then measureing the size of the tower in the picture of the SSD from The Art of Empire and scaling up to the full length of the ship you get a length of around 19 km.

What are you scaling up? Do you even know the scale? How can you know the scale? You're using the bridge to find the scale, and then saying that the scale of the bridge is "x" because you claim to have found it earlier. That's circular reasoning.

As an aside, if anyone is going to the exhibition in Edinburgh maybe you could try to measure the actual models in some way and scale up more acuratly from there?

Again, the models prove nothing. The ISD model could be 10 feet long, and the SSD model could be 5 feet long. Does that say anything about the in-universe sizes? Hell no.

 

The models:
Imperial Star Destroyer: 259cm
Super Star Destroyer: 282cm

Therefore, the SSD is actually only 1.09 times as long as an Imperial Star Destroyer.






Also, the Rebel Blockade Runner is bigger than the Star Destroyer that it was running from

 

This thread is like "Return of the Living Dead" thread. It will never die!!!

 

Exactly Gandolf. We have a 282cm model playing the fictional part of a ship that's about 12.8km long.

No one can attempt to divine the fictional length of the fictional ship from the movies showing actual models, when the movies quite simply don't have the information on the fictional length.

 

Well going from models, wouldn't the Millennium Falcon be the largest ship in the Star Wars movies?? Didn't they build an almost full scale of it?

 

Ah. . .now here was a worthy debate!

 

what is this??? up old threads day???

~NiKe, DaRK LaDy oF THe SiTH~

 

Note: This is my first posting

Okay, let's settle this argument using some maths. The scale model for the Executor that was used in the films was 282cm x 92cm x 33 cm (see Star Wars: Behind the Magic Vehicles). According to the databanks at starwars.com, an ISD is 1.6km long and an SSD is 12.8 km long. If you do the maths, the Executor turns out to be 12.8km long, approximately 4.18km wide, and about 1.5 km high. A few interesting facts, though. The Lusankya and the Iron Fist (Iceheart and Zsinj's ships respectively) are both only 8km long (see X-Wing: The Krytos Trap). Odd isn't it? Well, I hope this solves your questions.

 

"A few interesting facts, though. The Lusankya, only 8km long"

Actually LFL now gives it the length of 12,000 meters 800 meters short of that of the now given executor length.

lusankya


Spoilers in DW,





We have another SSD said to be the classic length of 8000 meters.


Which may be one of the unaccounted(said to be 8000 meters within the trilogy) black fleet crisis SSDs.







End spoilers.


Or we could just say that LFL doesn't really care to keep track of it's lengths. In behind the magic cd-rom, both the 12.8 km and the 8 k length were given at the same time. Again in starships of the galaxy both the 8 km, and the 12.8 km lenght were given, in such a way that it seemed LFL couldn't keep up their mind. Or maybe they do keep track and saying there are SSD that exist in sizes ranging between 8000 and 12,800 meters. Some are right on 8000, some right on 12,800, and some that are 12,000 meters exactly.

So in the end, I still say they are BFS, Big Freakin Ships.

 

It's alive!!! This thread I mean.

 

No one can attempt to divine the fictional length of the fictional ship from the movies showing actual models, when the movies quite simply don't have the information on the fictional length.

Let the Technical Commentaries burn!

 

He was sent other books besides that, if he had read data in say starships of the galaxy(a book that came out after the 12,8 was given on starwars.com) he would have had the 8000 meter length as well. If he read BFC he would have had the 8000 meter length. There is more than one place with that length, and if lfl isn't doing their work to edit his writing he didn't make the error because he was working with what they gave him. Ultimately he did his research on the matter, with the material they gave him to research with. It was up to the editors to correct him if there was a problem but for some reason they didn't deem it a problem.

LFL, was also sure to say that Lusankya was only "12,000 km" exactly as the site I posted shows, rather than 12,800. Who knows what extra equipment vader had the executor installed with, . Experimental landing struts, and reinforced hull, and specially modified docking clamps, special designed landing shields? So that he could be able to land as shown according to marvel, .

Also I hear the arguement from people, that perhaps K-mac made a continuity error by using the term, Executor-class, considering that all previous released material for it, used super-class instead, as did the material that came after it. So if that was the case, then it too would be in error as much as anything else. Then again perhaps executor-class covers a series of ships of various sizes, thanks to LFL's writing itself into a hole.

Of course the most simple explaination is they are big freakin ships, and keep it at that.

 

LFL made a number of mistakes and now there are living contradictions in the Star Wars Canon. All that there is to be said. I really hope no purist ever sees this. Our greatest weakness.