How long was the Galactic Civil War?

The Rebellion was formed a year or two before ANH, when the Corellian, Chandrilan and Alderaanian resistance movements joined forces and signed the Corellian Treaty.

 

There were some Rebel sympathizers on Coruscant. Stormtroopers did arrive on the scene fairly quickly, though, and shut down the celebration.

This is supported by the fact that we can even see a stormtrooper being tossed around in the crowd at the end of RotJ.

 

Of course, that stormie was alone and got swarmed by the mob. Once the troopers got themselves organized, they shot down most of the crowd.

 

Less than 1% of the Imperial fleet was at Endor.

Since I'm a purist I seriously doubt your claims.
Nothing of film sources say this, in fact I think its more likely that a majority of the Imperial resources were there, and were destroyed.

Some did, but many others clung to whatever power they could.

Again you keep talking absolutes, this isn't the EU forums. Please stop this.
I doubt with the Emperor gone and all the key figures with the Imperial structure also dead, anyone would be left in high enough position to take power.

There were some Rebel sympathizers on Coruscant. Stormtroopers did arrive on the scene fairly quickly, though, and shut down the celebration.



I'm gonna dismiss that, Coruscant celebrated the Empire was dead.

IMHO

 

Um, what source says that the fleet at Endor was the entire Imperial fleet? You're just making assumptions. You know full well that 27 Star Destroyers is not enough to patrol the galaxy. Plus, we only see two of them get destroyed on-screen.

 

Bib, let's say you're an evil emperor trying to run a galaxy. You have the opportunity to smash your opposition to pieces. You set a trap for them, using your most valuable property, your goal being to absolutely crush them.

Would you really bring less than 1% of your fleet? Would you, given the opportunity to make your hold on the galaxy complete, summon only a tiny chunk of your forces, instead of a rather large fraction of them?

There were some Rebel sympathizers on Coruscant. Stormtroopers did arrive on the scene fairly quickly, though, and shut down the celebration.

Who needs happy endings, anyway? Having the feel-good galactic celebration be cut short by massive bloodshed as soon as the camera turns off is much better escapist fantasy!

 

Would you really bring less than 1% of your fleet?

Yes, because it was all that was needed. The Death Star was the real trap.

Would you, given the opportunity to make your hold on the galaxy complete, summon only a tiny chunk of your forces, instead of a rather large fraction of them?

He couldn't afford to leave worlds undefended like that.

 

Undefended against what? He knew the Rebels were all at Sullust.

 

Yes, because it was all that was needed. The Death Star was the real trap.

The Death Star can't be defended only by itself. That's why Palpatine brought in SDs in the first place. Logic dictates the more, the better.

He couldn't afford to leave worlds undefended like that.

How would bringing along, say, 100 instead of 27 SDs be a serious detriment to the security of the Empire?

Unless of course he had a lot fewer than 2,500...

 

Palpy, like Tarkin, was overconfident. He didn't think he needed to bring in more Star Destroyers.

 

You're just making assumptions. You know full well that 27 Star Destroyers is not enough to patrol the galaxy.

That depends on the size of the galaxy.
Ok, Pt says otherwise. But this is the classic trilogy forum.

 

As far as I can tell, there was an ISD for each system; more if the system in question was a trouble maker. So seeing that there are thousands of systems in a galaxy, it's only common sense that my previous statement of there being over 25,000 ISDs is pretty sound. I don't think, somehow, that 27 ISDs would be enough to patrol thousands of light years of space, even with their hyperdrives.

 

I agree with Lord_Hydronium, although I read EU for fun the Emperor sent a considerable portion of his fleet to Endor. Otherwise, why would the Rebels celebrate their freedom so extravagantly if the majority of the galaxy was still under Emperial control?

You saw the movie: fireworks, celebrations on Coruscant (where they knocked down the Palpatine statue), celebrations on Bespin, and celebtrations on Tatooine.

The Empire died in ROTJ; otherwise the saga that Lucas created never ended and the Alliance with a new minor foothold had to battle the Empire for another 200 years.

"Plus we only see two of them destroyed onscreen."

I think that gargantuan exlposion from the Death Star did a bang up job of taking care of the rest which were all in its radius.

Obviously the Empire didn't have thousands of Star Destroyers as you say they did otherwise the Rebellion would've been squashed due to a inability to find a single rock to hide under.

More than likely, a single fleet was dispatched to reinforce the iron fist rule wherever discontent rose in the many star systems.

It's also beyond me how so many huge warships could be constructed in roughly 20 years too.

<[-]> Saber

 

The Empire had 25000 Imperial-class Star Destroyers.

 

I read that they had 25,000 ISDs in the Star Wars Encyclopaedia. And the number would make sense, considering the amount of inhabited systems in the Star Wars galaxy.

 

Was the Star Wars encyclopedia written by George Lucas?

<[-]> Saber

 

25000 is actually small considering that there's over a million inhabited systems in the galaxy.

The Standard Imperial sector patrol group was 24 Star Destroyers. And since there were approximately 1000 sectors, that means a minimum of 24000. The remaining 1000 were probably tasked to defend key worlds like Coruscant, Kuat, Bilbringi, Fondor, etc. or go hunt the Rebels.

Was the Star Wars encyclopedia written by George Lucas?

Very little of anything Star Wars actually is written by Lucas. The Encyclopedia is still canon, though.

 

Does anyone here (except for me and Bib) appreciate the true size of the average galaxy? They are millions of light years across, and have billions of solar systems!!! In that case, even with 25,000 ISDs, the Rebels would still find it pretty easy to hide.

 

To quote Ozzel, "there are so many uncharted settlements." There is an almost unlimited number of places for the Rebellion to hide. Even if they don't find a planet such as Yavin 4 or Hoth to hide on, there is still deep space, which encompasses more area of the galaxy than anything else.

 

The Empire had 25000 Imperial-class Star Destroyers.

Well, that's even more ridiculous! You're telling me that out of 25,000 SDs, the Emperor could only spare 27 of them? To crush his last and greatest enemy? By the EU way, Endor wasn't even a victory! If the Empire is still running strong (heck, in the EU, even the Emperor survives!), and only a very tiny fraction of SDs have been destroyed, then what in blazes was the point of the Battle of Endor and indeed, ROTJ? And why would the rebels be celebrating? By the EU's numbers, they've barely changed a damn thing in the galaxy!

This isn't meant to be an EU bashing post. Apologies if it comes off that way. I'm simply taking umbrage with one (admittedly major) aspect of it that I find completely preposterous.

 

Well, that's even more ridiculous! You're telling me that out of 25,000 SDs, the Emperor could only spare 27 of them? To crush his last and greatest enemy? By the EU way, Endor wasn't even a victory! If the Empire is still running strong (heck, in the EU, even the Emperor survives!), and only a very tiny fraction of SDs have been destroyed, then what in blazes was the point of the Battle of Endor and indeed, ROTJ? And why would the rebels be celebrating? By the EU's numbers, they've barely changed a damn thing in the galaxy!

They managed to kill the Emperor and destroyed the Death Star II. They also managed to nick 2 ISDs and destroy several others. They managed to destroy the Executor, the biggest SD in the fleet at Endor. That was a pretty comprehensive victory. The Rebels are celebrating because they have knocked off the Emperor and Vader (who were the main power components of the Empire). That's a big change - the Empire's lost it's leader, and now a power squabble will ensue. It's a huge moral victory - destroying all of the Empire's ships would not have the same effect killing the Emperor and Vader did. It shook the Empire to its core. If you think defeating the leader of the Empire, his most trusted servant, his ultimate weapon and his servant's personal flagship is "barely changing anything" then I have no idea what you think you constitute a victory.

27 1.6 kilometre Star Destroyers, each with 9700 troops, and hundreds of turbolasers, TIE fighters, proton torp launchers, turbolaser batteries, tractor beams, and so on is a massively powerful task force. It's more than the standard sector assignment - and sectors of space are huge. And the Empire has to guard its own planets from attack - no guard and they can fall to the Rebellion easily. Having an ISD hanging around makes it difficult to take the planet.

As the films don't answer the question, the EU is correct - the Galactic Civil War rages on for 15 years after ROTJ. ANH was a point a few years after its start.

And I agree with Zethlin and Bib on the numbers of ISDs in the galaxy - it makes perfect sense.

 

They managed to kill the Emperor

Not for very long.

and destroyed the Deeath Star II.

Only to have a gaggle of Sun Crushers, World Devastators, Darksabers, Eclipse-Class SDs, and god knows what else pop up.

They also managed to nick 2 ISDs and destroy several others.

2/25000 = 0.00008

Yeah, nice percentage.

They managed to destroy the Executor, the biggest SD in the fleet at Endor.

Leaving about 8 or so SSDs remaining.

Now, I personally don't believe a word of those statistics above. By my movie-based views, yes, it was a major victory. But by the EU, it was trivial. This is the issue that I have a problem with, and one that I feel doesn't reconcile at all with the movies. And the number of SDs is a major part of this - .008% of all SDs in the Empire wouldn't be reason to enough to celebrate the way the Rebels do.

And I agree with Zethlin and Bib on the numbers of ISDs in the galaxy - it makes perfect sense.

Then why could the Emperor spare no more than 27? That's the part that makes no sense.

 

I'm not sure if 25.000 ISDs is EU. If the Emperor needed to keep hold of thousands of advanced systems in the galaxy, then those are the sorts of numbers of capital ships he'd need. I think that's the sort of number that GL was imagining when he first made Star Wars. You can't control a whole galaxy of angry planets with just 27 capital ships.

As for Endor and the whole of ROTJ, that's been my point all along. The Battle of Endor was a pointless exercise for what it'd achieve for the Rebels. Palpatine would need to keep most of his capital ships on station in their assigned systems. If he were to take them away from their assigned duties overlooking possible rebellious systems, then those very planets could themselves rebel and overthrow their planetary governers. So for the trap at Endor, Palpatine could only afford 27 IDSs and one Commandship.

 

I will repost this:

27 1.6 kilometre Star Destroyers, each with 9700 troops, and hundreds of turbolasers, TIE fighters, proton torp launchers, turbolaser batteries, tractor beams, and so is a massively powerful task force. It's more than the standard sector assignment - and sectors of space are huge. And the Empire has to guard its own planets from attack - no guard and they can fall to the Rebellion easily. Having an ISD hanging around makes it difficult to take the planet.

It doesn't matter that the Emperor returned - nobody knew for 5-6 years. During that time, the Empire was whittled down to less than a quarter of its original strength, and the psychological blow was huge. Same with the other weapons. The DSII was the most visible sign of the Empire's power. It went bye-bye and the Empire shuddered.

And I'll say it again - destroying the Emperor and Vader was more of a blow than destroying 25,000 ISDs ever will be.

Zethlin: I agree with you 100%. Excellent point.

 

Yes, you are right, Iron_Fist, it was a task force lying in wait at Endor, rather than "the Imperial fleet" itself. Whenever the Americans send the navy to war, they only send a "small" part of the fleet itself. On a strategic level it would be inadvisable and senseless to do otherwise. When there is a war in the offing, the President would send a "task force", rather than the whole fleet.

In military terms the battle would be pointless. Even if the Rebels had known about the task force awaiting them, the victory, on a strategic level would have been meaningless.

But on a psychological basis the victory, not only of destroying the task force and the Death Star II, but also of the death of Palpatine, would indeed have been a major blow to the moral and prestige of the Empire. The Empire wouldn't have been the same again, and maybe even the Empire would itself fracture, with each governer and warlord wanting to fill the void left by Palpatine and Vader. Maybe that's what the Rebels hoped to do, create a rift in the Imperial ranks.

But I do think that Palpatine was too shrewd a customer to overlook the possibility that the Rebels might succeed in their attack. I think he would have devised an escape plan, just in case.