How Many Simultaneous Battles in AOTC???

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith (Non-Spoilers)' started by Qey Santim, Mar 11, 2002.

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  1. Qey Santim Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 1999
    star 1
    Ok.

    ANH - one climactic battle
    ESB - two
    ROTJ - three
    TPM - four

    AOTC - five???? six????


    Please, George, NO MORE! One...MAYBE two, but no more!

    If Trailer D is any indication we'll have at least two. :(
  2. yodaman Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 1999
    star 5
    You make it sound as if the number of simultaneous battles are inversely proportional to the quality of the film. The fact is, the amount has nothing to do with the quality, rather how well they are fit and interacted with each other.
  3. Qey Santim Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 1999
    star 1
    I make it sound that way...because its TRUE!

    Too much information...too much trying to be told at once.

    Lucas has yet to top the first Death Star attack sequence.

    Adding more and more simultaneous fights doesn't make it "better."

    Lucas has admitted many times how he wants to throw as much info. as fas as possible at the audience. With the possible exception of ESB, he has been successful at it.

    Hell, I'd bet most would have been happy with JUST the sabre battle at the end of TPM.
  4. yodaman Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 1999
    star 5
    I make it sound that way...because its TRUE!

    What do you mean by true? Nothing exists as quantitively true when it comes to any kind of artistic field.
  5. augusto Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 4
    Nobody has to top the Death Star attack sequence, not even Lucas because he created it. It's not like he has to beat himself.

    As for the number of simultaneous battles ? I don't care about the number, but the quality. I really liked the ending battles in TPM, with the exception of the space battle which was so so , however I also liked the single one in a new Hope.

    As long as the story is good, and there's a challenge.
  6. Qey Santim Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 1999
    star 1
    ok ok ok, yodaman,

    I can't argue with that. Don't get all philosophical on me! :)

    Here's my line of reasoning. If you agree that ANH and ESB had the best climactic battles...and the endings got increasingly worse with ROTJ and TPM....and you take note that each one also had at least one more simultaneous battle than its predecessor, then you could come to the conclusion that the end of AOTC could have FIVE battles or more going on...and the battles, being told together, are even worse than TPM's.

    I would think that someone else here might share that feeling.

    So you don't see ANY correlation?

    Augusto,

    You don't think Lucas tries to outdo himself? Of course he does...he has admitted as much.

  7. augusto Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 4
    I don't think where he has been quoted as saying he aims to top the Death Star battle sequence.

    And again, I don't think it's the number of battles that's the problem, but the quality of them and the story behind them.

    You also make it sound like ROTJ had a bad ending, sure the Ewoks are not fan favorites but the drama in the Vader/Luke/Emperor scene was great. Plus I bet nobody saw anakins redemption coming.
  8. yodaman Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 1999
    star 5
    If you said you hope if Lucas uses a lot of simultaneous battles that he manages and juggles them better than he did in ROTJ and TPM or else just trim it down, then that is an argument that makes logical sense. In that case you're saying that there can be many battles and if done effectively can be very good, but if not done effectively should be made smaller. There's actual logic to that.

    On the other hand if you made a mere quip that more battles = bad movie then that statement just smacks of ignorance. Correlations are for those who no longer wish to think logically.
  9. EagleIFilms Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2001
    star 5
    Oh, and from the trailer, I only see ONe battle.

    Where do you see two?
  10. Qey Santim Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 1999
    star 1
    Augusto,

    Uh...you strengthen my point. Regarding ROTJ, you commented on how good the Vader, Luke, Palpy segment was...and you're right! That was the heart of the story...the rest while filled with some "oooooos and aaaahhs" really didn't do much for the story.

    The film would have ended even better if we had stayed with the temptation of Luke and the turning of Vader instead of cutting back to Admiral Ackbar breathing like an asthmatic, and Wicket jumping around with his spear.

    You're right about he story behind the battles. Yeh the Gungans were providing a diversion, but so what? Who wanted to see Buster Keaton....err Jar Jar Binks running around actin' a foo while Darth Maul and Co. were goin' at it?

    My point is, what did we gain by having all the simultaneous battles happening? Story-wise, not much.

  11. Qey Santim Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 1999
    star 1
    Eagle,

    Well, I'm thinkin' Anakin is fightin' Dooku while everyone else is in either the arena or the big land battle.

    I could be wrong about that since Anakin is tied up with Obi Wan and Padme.

    Still, you have the arena battle and the big land battle.
  12. EagleIFilms Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2001
    star 5
    arena battle and the big land battle

    I think the battle starts in the Arena, and then ends outside of the Arena.

    Not two simul battles.
  13. Qey Santim Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 1999
    star 1
    yodaman,

    Well, sorry that finding trends or correlations aren't the big ball of fun that "logic" appears to be. Since when did these threads become solely about making logical statements and not expressing opinion?

    My post doesn't "smack of ignorance." It smacks of concern that Lucas will continue in his trend...and unsuccessfully at that.

    Here's one for you. "the CG Yoda looks more real than the puppet." Huh? Where's the logic in that. A bunch of 1's and 0's looks more real than a rubber and fabric puppet?

  14. Qey Santim Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 1999
    star 1
    I hope you're right, Eagle. I hope you're right.
  15. Darth-Mouth Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 18, 1999
    star 4
    Looks to me like inside the arena it's Jedi vs. Droids & Miscellaneous Animals. Outside it's Clones vs. Droids.

    Though it does look like the clones' ships enter the arena.
  16. yodaman Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 1999
    star 5
    You seem to still not understand, which I'm not at all surprised. This doesn't have anything to do with opinions, which you're entitled to. If I said that I don't like any symphonies in D major because all the symphonies I've listened to in that key suck and then I made the statement that I felt that some symphony I've never heard was automatically going to suck because it was in D major then that would be stupid of me. I'm sorry to say but that really does smack of ignorance. That's where correlative thinking gets you. I could say that's just my opinion, but then again it would be an obtuse one at that.
  17. Qey Santim Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 1999
    star 1
    Well, yodaman, I see you must insult to try to prove your point. So be it. Not an effective means of persuasion though.

    Your example is all fine and dandy. Bravo.

    Now, if you return to my original post. I simply pointed out the number of simultaneous battles each release featured. I posed the question, how many simultaneous battles would AOTC have - five? six?

    I made a personal plea (which was obviously an expression of my opinion) that I don't want to see even more simultaneous battles in AOTC, because the more Lucas adds, as evidenced by ROTJ and TPM specifically, the worse they seemed to get.

    Now, I didn't write all that out...and place "IMO" all over the place, because I made the mistake of thinking people could see the obvious....read between the lines, etc.

    It's simple really. If you don't agree with my opinion and the trend that I have commented on, then say so (make sure you use "IMO" so everyone will understand)

    Otherwise, let's take this to IM or email.
  18. augusto Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 4
    > Here's one for you. "the CG Yoda looks more real than the puppet." Huh? Where's the logic in that. A bunch of 1's and 0's looks more real than a rubber and fabric puppet?

    That line of thinking doesn't make sense, it's like saying the dinosaurs in Jurassic Park would have been more realistic if they were puppets instead of CG.

    I think the old Yoda puppet was cute but horribly fake looking, however it never retracted from the likability of the character. Even when I was a kid Yoda walking and you not being able to see his feet was a glaring reminder that this guy not only sounding like somebody from the Muppet show, but he *was* a muppet by definition.
  19. Qey Santim Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 1999
    star 1
    Augusto,

    Ah, but there were animatronic Dinos in JP as well!

    I guess we'd have to consult Morpheus on the definition of "real."

    "What is real?" ;)

    I know what people are trying to say about the CG Yoda. I believe they mean he looks like a "real" character more than the puppet was able to portray. But, in terms of "our" real world, of course the puppet is "real" and the CG-Yoda is not...hence, CG Yoda can't possibly look "more real."

    Eh...makes sense?

    yodaman, feel free to chime in! :)
  20. Padawan Coalesce Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 1999
    star 1
    I agree with Qey Santim. So far as the number of simultaneous battles increases the so does the cheesiness of the ending.
    IMO TPM is worst about this. Everyone is facing certain dome... oh look everyone overcomes there foes at the same time.

  21. augusto Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 4
    > But, in terms of "our" real world, of course the puppet is "real" and the CG-Yoda is not...hence, CG Yoda can't possibly look "more real."

    > Eh...makes sense?

    Not really. The puppet looks like a real "rubber puppet". The CG Yoda looks like a real tiny alien thing.

    BTW, some of the shots of Yoda are better than ohters in the trailers. But overall is a much greater improvement over the old puppet.
  22. Qey Santim Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 1999
    star 1
    Ach! Ok, Augusto. I give up. I can't explain myself any clearer than my last post.
  23. augusto Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 4
    OK then, I sure as heck don't get it, when you claim something looks more real by the simple fact that the puppet is real while the CG is not.

    As I study computer graphics, I'm sure my professor would get a kick out of that simplistic explination. Maybe they should have made the CG Yoda look and act like a puppet and you'd be happier. LOL !

    Kind of a weird logic there, sorry.
  24. Darth Garrett Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2000
    Personally, I felt all the battles at the end of TPM were a bit much. I wasn't all that thrilled with the space battle or the Gungan/droid battle. I don't think there will be anymore than two simultaneous battles at the end of AOTC, though.
  25. Qey Santim Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 1999
    star 1
    My friend (Augusto), re-read your statement

    "when you claim something looks more real by the simple fact that the puppet is real while the CG is not."

    LOL.

    Someone please help me! The puppet IS REAL, the CG Yoda is NOT! No matter how many classes you take, that won't change.

    Now, you used a term earlier "realistic." Therein lies the rub! Ok...the CG Yoda may be able to display more "realisitic" qualities of a...uh...whatever Yoda is...simply due to the fact that they can render his legs, feet, etc.

    No matter how good they do at rendering him, that CG Yoda is NOT REAL! Not real. N O T R E A L!

    When they film the puppet, you can tell that "thing" is physically there on the set. It has physical atoms that comprise its rubber skin and atoms that make up his clothing. THE CG CHARACTER DOES NOT!

    As long as I can tell that the CG Yoda IS CG, it is NOT more real than the puppet Yoda. More "realistic" as defined above??? Maybe! But not more REAL!

    Please, have your teacher read that. I'm sure he'll understand! :)
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