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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

How much better than Star Trek is Star Wars?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Beny_Onbe, Jan 7, 2002.

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  1. Mastadge

    Mastadge Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 1999
    Star Trek has Teleportation technology and Starwars Have force users that can Teleport.

    PPOR about Force users who can teleport. If you're referring to the Dark Woman, I doubt she was teleporting. She probably had already walked out of the room, and was making him think she was in the room with him, or something like that.

    In Star Trek You can be Born with or gain incredable powers. that may or may not drive you insane.

    What are you talking about? Riker has had power bestowed upon him by Q, and Wes by the Traveler, but who was born with anything even remotely analogous to the Force?
     
  2. Sabrajaguar

    Sabrajaguar Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2001
    Marcus "Mark"Mchenry Great Great Great Great Grandson Of Apollo from TOS.

    Abilities: Time Sense, Vulcan like intellect, Multi tasking abilities, The Abity to resist Q's involuntary Trnsformations, The Ability to feel where he is in space. The Ability to use a ships Overloading warp engines to Slow time around an individual.

    Morgan Primus aka Morgan Lefler, aka(the female first officer on Pikes Enterprise)

    Abilities:Being Half Promethean she is for human kowledge immortal. Rapid reginative ability negates the effect of ageing, Physical attacks, A phaser set on full power.


    Gallilao: Immortal as long as he stays on Earth. Healing factor and Twice the strenght of a man.

    Kalinda "Kally" alies Former pricess of the Thallonian empire. Alies Riella of Montoss

    Ever since her call/summons to the "Quiet Place" She has beenable to communicate with the "Pulse Impaired" through her psi connection to the Quiet Place.

    Their are many many more. I could continue if you wish.

    as for teleportation I was refering to Jorj Car'Das
     
  3. Mastadge

    Mastadge Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 1999
    Peter David's characters mostly I see...hmmm....
     
  4. BaronReno

    BaronReno Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Oct 15, 2001
    I heard that Ep 4 made more than all of Star Trek movies combined, there... in terms of money SW has definitely got the wood on Star Trek. Star Trek is too tight-ass, the movies make the Enterprise move too slow but that's just shooting techniques >>

    It's hard to judge which one brings in more money, because ST has a venue that SW doesn't have, and that's tv.

    However, strictly relating to movies SW has such a huge advantage it isn't even funny. Neither of the last two ST films broke $100 million. If I remember right (and I might be off, I just know they didn't break 100) it was $80 million for First Contact, and around $60 million for Insurrection. Basically they made what AOTC is going to make in like a week.

    If you wanted to speak overall, I would say SW makes more. I'm pretty sure their toyline and booklines make more than ST (ditto comics, if ST has any...never seen one). ST has a lot of computer games, and I've never played one so I can't judge, but they don't have any console games (that I'm aware of).

    The biggest difference as far as revenue goes is that ST has had a string of succesful tv shows which rake in money, while SW hasn't had anything like that for the last 20 years. So while they were taking in money from TNG, SW had to just rely CCG, books, and comics (and vhs).

    And then there is the dvd market now. SW has only TPM out, while ST is going to put out the movies, and the shows (eventually). With so much merchandise to put out, ST should kill SW as far as dvd sales go. At most SW can put out 6 movies on dvd. ST will have 10 movies, TOS, TNG, DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise. Even if they don't sell as well individually as a SW dvd, the sheer volume of merchandise should be more.

    Lots of venues to think about when pondering which makes more money.....I would guess SW, but ST has some fields won.
     
  5. Kimball_Kinnison

    Kimball_Kinnison Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2001
    Sabrajaguar,

    If we are going to discuss the differences between Star Wars and Star Trek, we should stick to the established canon or continuity of each. While we all should know what that is for SW :D (after all the arguments we've had, that is), for Star Trek, it is the actual TV shows (including the animated ones) and the movies. Nothing else.

    Of your examples, not one of them comes from established ST continuity (or canon). Your first example, Marcus McHenry, was based on something that was cut from an early draft for the episode "Who Mourns for Adonas?", where Lt. Palamas was going to be impregnated by Apollo, the greek god.

    Captain Pike's First officer was neer given a name in the established canon, but has been given several different ones in the novels. She was only refered to as "Number One".

    I have no idea who Kalinda is, and can find no reference to her or the Thallonian empire in my copy of the Star Trek Encyclopedia 1994 edition), which provides an outline of all the canon sources for ST.

    If you wanted, we could start using Infinities stuff against SW, but I'd rather not. Using the novels as proof against ST is the same way.

    Kimball Kinnison
     
  6. BaronReno

    BaronReno Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Oct 15, 2001
    Ironically I found this....really in the last place i thought I would. While reading the offical press release about WWFE (World Wrestling Federation Entertainment) signing with Simon & Schuster (who produces ST books)to produce a series of books, I found this, which coincides with my earlier post about how wel ST books sell...

    Simon & Schuster is the publishing home to some of the strongest and most recognizable brands in the world. It has been the publisher of Star Trek, the most successful series in publishing history, for more than 25 years. With six Star Trek books sold every minute, and more than 1 billion books in print, blah blah blah...

    So according to this, ST books are the most successful series in publishing history, which means it outsells SW books. So assuming that's true, SW wins in movie revenue, but ST has books and tv.
     
  7. Sabrajaguar

    Sabrajaguar Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2001
    CA....
    can.....
    cannnnnnnnnnn

    CANON! the word leaves a bad taste I thy mouth! Like bad Beer. Like Cheap corner store beer! That skanky crap that makes the whole world wail! (part of the reason It was my first and most likely last time drinking)

    I consider Star wars And Star Trekbooks alike canon. Why can not literature be considerd canon. Somtimes its better than the show or movie! *coughSTARWARSCHRISTMASSPECIALcough!*
    *choughVOYAGER:ENDGAMEchough!*
    *choughVOYAGER:THRESHOLDchough!*

    sorry crappy television upsets my allergies

    (FYI) did you know their are some Trek fans who don't consider DS9 canon because its considerd "Anti-Trek"
     
  8. Kimball_Kinnison

    Kimball_Kinnison Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2001
    Sabra,

    I am aware that there are fans who use different definitions of the "C" word, but I am refering to what the studios say about it. There are certain SW novels that I'd like to disavow from continuity (cough cough the Crystal Star cough) but I have no right or authority to do so. To Paramount, all the novels are just Fan-fics that are selling really well (and making them a fortune). Just imagine that all the ST novels have an Infinities symbol on them.

    Kimball Kinnison
     
  9. Beny_Onbe

    Beny_Onbe Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 30, 2001
    So, Mastadge, do you have smthg against me personally, or do you like Star Trek better? To answer your questions,

    a)obviously you can't tell, but I was being SARCASTIC when I said he was no longer my friend. Have you ever heard of sarcasm?

    b)I actually do know a lot about Star Trek-I've watched all the series except DS9. So yes, I am making an informed opinion, and it's just that, MY OPINION.

    and c)well, I had a point, but I suddenly forgot it. Oh yeah, if I had a ship, I'd definetly name it something aggresive. I know the theme of ST is exploring (hence Trek instead of Wars) but that's not what I prefer.

    I don't mean to be aggresive or insulting to you but this is how I feel. Sorry if it offends.
     
  10. Mastadge

    Mastadge Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 1999
    So, Mastadge, do you have smthg against me personally, or do you like Star Trek better? To answer your questions,

    Neither. I don't know anyone here (well, a few marginally, but only online), and I find it pointless to hold a grudge or to dislike someone on a message board. And I don't like Star Trek better. I like Star Wars better. I was trying to point out that not only are they two very different things, but that none of the arguments made were at all conclusive and most were entirely subjective.

    a)obviously you can't tell, but I was being SARCASTIC when I said he was no longer my friend. Have you ever heard of sarcasm?

    Yes, I've heard of sarcasm, but I couldn't tell from the context whether you were being sarcastic or not. Hence my earlier question to you.

    b)I actually do know a lot about Star Trek-I've watched all the series except DS9. So yes, I am making an informed opinion, and it's just that, MY OPINION.

    OK. I'm glad you have an opinion. The world would be a very boring place if everyone thought the same way. BTW, DS9 was by far, IMO, the best Trek.

    and c)well, I had a point, but I suddenly forgot it. Oh yeah, if I had a ship, I'd definetly name it something aggresive. I know the theme of ST is exploring (hence Trek instead of Wars) but that's not what I prefer.

    That's my point. Someone's preference doesn't make something better than something else, except to that person.

    I don't mean to be aggresive or insulting to you but this is how I feel. Sorry if it offends.

    I rarely take offense, I'm kind of a laid-back guy except when someone pisses me off.
     
  11. Valiento

    Valiento Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 2000
    "I heard that Ep 4 made more than all of Star Trek movies combined, there... in terms of money SW has definitely got the wood on Star Trek. Star Trek is too tight-ass, the movies make the Enterprise move too slow but that's just shooting techniques"

    Actually this one may not exactly be true. First contact made more that episode 4, as I remember. But you must understand this is because prices of tickets have gone up, and practically every big budget FX laden film sells more than anh, nowadays, because of that.

    I have no idea though which sold more in ticket counts. Probably star wars though.

    "Valiento...you can call it modulation...but what do you get?...new bigger explosions on screen and faster death to your foes...since its all pseudo-science non-sence anyway nothing has really changed...it may make sence inside of the show/movie's pseudo-science non-sence...but it still reamains as such..."

    Actually, there is a difference. Star wars relies on pseudo-science. Things like Hyperspace. Hyper is one of those words tacked onto the end of a word to make it sound like "Oooooooh Kewl". Star Trek, and every other scifi ever made are "pseudo-science." So what is your point? Also "Pseudo-science" in scifi can be based off of real scientific terms and theories. yes, scifi shows, just not star trek rely on technobabble, but they do come up with theories that are either later used by an ingenious scientist, or they use ideas brought forth by ingenious scientists in there research for story ideas. So scifi's pseudoscience can become real science. Your argument of technobabble making a series bad can even apply to star wars technobabble in the EU Or even a few comments in the movie. (Motivater,restraining bolt, hyperspace, etc)

    Pulse is an actual term that means modulation. There is technology I remember reading about called pulse radio waves, which allows for a wider and farther communication.

    So scientificully modulating a frequency of some type isn't all that unlikely.

    "btw...i don't mean to be offensive when writing this...and i'll probobly regeret it later when i've finaly woken up..."

    If you think you are going to be offensive, and will regret it, you really should be careful what you post.


    "StarTrek Phasers may be more powerful than lase. But Have you seen the Recharge Rate on the Enterprise d."

    Much more powerful by the way, and have many options. They can be turned into a rapid fire mode, or medium power stream mode. Or a full blast energy mode. It depends on what they activate. Many of the higher rates modes do have slower recharge rating. But they are just that much more powerful at that level. A basic blast from kirk's enterprise isn't going to destroy a planet. When scotty talked about it he was talking about a fully powered blast.

    Same deal is known about the death star, it has to be at full power before it can destroy a planet.

    "Defiant, and Sovereign class ships (and to a lesser extent the Intrepid class) have Quick recharge phasers."

    Yes, but they too could be set to modes that will slow down shots.

    "While Star Destroyers, Mon Cal cruisers, and Bothan assult vessles, Defense platforms ect, have quick recharging TurboLasers."

    But this is negligible, because they have plasma weapons, not true lasers. Any of the SW sourcebooks talk about the fact that it's plasma.

    Star Trek shields TOS and onward are resistent to plasma type weapons, because that weoponry type is outdated.

    Also I seem to remember in the behind the scenes notes in the star trek factfiles I've read, that each federation ships has phaser banks that can be fired individually from each other for multiple targets. As well combine to one single super-powered blast. But because of TV FX restraints they have only shown the combined version.

    "Star Trek has Teleportation technology and Starwars Have force users that can Teleport.

    "In Star Trek You can be Born with or gain incredable powers. that may or may not drive you insane."

    Well, teleporter technology is more advanced in this case.

    Star War
     
  12. Sabrajaguar

    Sabrajaguar Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2001
    Plasma is quite effective on Star fleet vessles. Remember the Romulan Plasma torpedo from "Balance of Terron" in the Original series? Plasma can turn the hulls of starships into Burnt toasted bread.
     
  13. HereVilliVilliVilli

    HereVilliVilliVilli Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2001
    Your talking about TOS time period, right? Also there are forms of upgraded plasma weapons, as I remember as well. I think there is a limit to how much plasma weapons can be upgraded I think.

    Enterprise has plasma weapons, but obseleted much of during that time period, with the phase weapon upgrades.
     
  14. Valiento

    Valiento Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 2000
    Yes, I think so, I believe I mentioned that before I think in a few posts back.

    Maybe I posted it in a similer thread in the Games Forum?

    I think it was the second episode of the pilot were I got that information from(It is only the upgrades of the hand weapons though). Enterprise NX-01 ship, itself still only uses plasma weapons.

    Possible this Plasma Bomb is more like the plasma in the sun? Definatly not blood plasma, ;), :D.
     
  15. Stymi

    Stymi Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2002
    Someone actually said that Star Wars aliens are based on "real" evolution. That's laughable.
    I agree they are cooler, and that SW is waaaay better, but that bit of evidence doesn't do much to show that SW fans are more intelligent, that's for sure. At least that person beleives in evoltuon.
     
  16. Valiento

    Valiento Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 2000
    "Someone actually said that Star Wars aliens are based on "real" evolution. That's laughable.
    I agree they are cooler, and that SW is waaaay better, but that bit of evidence doesn't do much to show that SW fans are more intelligent, that's for sure. At least that person beleives in evoltuon."

    Look like muppets, party masks, and CGI to me, ;), :D.
     
  17. Beny_Onbe

    Beny_Onbe Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 30, 2001
    "OK. I'm glad you have an opinion. The world would be a very boring place if everyone thought the same way. BTW, DS9 was by far, IMO, the best Trek."

    I have to disagree with that one and go with TNG-sorry, I always did like Data, esp in the movies. I agree, however, that diff opinions definetly make convos more exciting-I'm not exactly into communism.

    "Neither. I don't know anyone here (well, a few marginally, but only online), and I find it pointless to hold a grudge or to dislike someone on a message board."

    Again, I agree with you-holding grudges pretty much sucks, and kind of takes the fun out of it, eh? Besides, I like a good argument now and then-keeps me sharp.

    And by the way, I think SW is better, I just wanted to know what everyone else thinks (obviously most ppl here like SW better or else they'd be at the ST website, right?), and the technical stuff (got a lot of that, eh?). I didn't even know about all these comparisons.



     
  18. Mastadge

    Mastadge Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 1999
    I have to disagree with that one and go with TNG-sorry, I always did like Data, esp in the movies. I agree, however, that diff opinions definetly make convos more exciting-I'm not exactly into communism.

    I said nothing about communism, nor was the situation I described communistic, per se. However, I'd like to quote your here: "I've watched all the series except DS9."

     
  19. Valiento

    Valiento Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 2000
    And by the way, I think SW is better, I just wanted to know what everyone else thinks (obviously most ppl here like SW better or else they'd be at the ST website, right?), and the technical stuff (got a lot of that, eh?). I didn't even know about all these comparisons."

    I do infact visit the star trek website often actually. Like I said I like both franchises equally, I don't have one that I like better than the other.
     
  20. Beny_Onbe

    Beny_Onbe Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 30, 2001
    Mastadge, I wasn't saying that you were communistic, I meant that I didn't think that everyone should have the same thoughts and ideals, with is the basis of communism. That's what I meant, sorry if you misunderstood.
     
  21. _Tenel_Ka_

    _Tenel_Ka_ Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 11, 2001
    It's all a matter of... could Barabels beat Klingons? :D

    seriously though, I enjoy Voyager. I like the Tom Paris/B'Elanna Torres relationship, because it's funny, I like the Doctor. HOWEVER, I really don't like the episodes that have Kess in them. She leaves the same time Seven of Nine comes, and I like Seven more. Overall, the dialogue can be seriously cheesy, and the people can be a little stupid, but it's okay.

    As for other ST series, I haven't seen very many, and I don't really care.
     
  22. AT-ST_DRIVER

    AT-ST_DRIVER Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 1, 2001
    i know this is a bit off topic but i think the reason for the star trek transporters was a cheap way to get the characters onto the planet without using a shuttle/starfighter or landing the ship. don't ask me why i said that. i just felt like saying it.
     
  23. Valiento

    Valiento Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 2000
    Yes, actually it was "Cheap", cost of production wise, in the early days of special effects it was much cheaper than using the shuttle set, and it looked pretty cool(neat FX element).

    To remove that item from later shows would have been anchronistic. Though there was more shuttle scenes than in the first show though.

    As well it came from ideas done in previous scifi books about transporters.
     
  24. Sinje_Gawa

    Sinje_Gawa Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 17, 2001
    True enough... 'the swizzle stick in the aquarium filled with water and glitter' was a cheaper way to get down to the planet so the Red Shirt could get killed than showing a shuttle landing every episode.

    However, compare this to Lucas' original ideas about having all the Stormtroopers weild lightsabers. Also cut down to just the Jedi because of cost constraints.

    Both of the work-arounds, lightsabers-limited-to-Jedi and transporters, became important signatures of the respective series that became accepted and respected by the audience. In the case of the lightsabers, it actually worked out better, in my opinion. Being sensitive in the Force kind of explained how the user could judge the position of the virtually weightless (it's an energy field swung around strongly enough that people should be cutting off their own limbs left and right unless *very highly skilled* or gifted with some kind of special perception) blade and provided a traditional symbol for the Jedi. The transporter became a good signature for ST tech... far-fetched, with science used as a basis, but requiring so much power to accomplish (the power requirements to reduce a person or thing down to virtually nothing and then transmit the data to reconstruct them would be astronomical) and overcoming so many technical hurdles (heisenburg's uncertainty principle) that it reflected a ST theme... we would eventually become responsible enough to wield such power and technology responsibly.

    Again, I yield the point that they both have strengths, and the main strengths come from the messages they send. Star Wars tries to show us an individual heroic quality and deals with facing personal demons. Star Trek tries to show us how we as human beings collectively can rise above our more violent and baser origins and deal with our more societial demons.
     
  25. Beny_Onbe

    Beny_Onbe Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 30, 2001
    OK, this is WAY off topic, but _Tenel_Ka_, I agree with your sig. Aragorn is way hotter.
     
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