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RPR Archive How much damage is TFU going to do around here?

Discussion in 'Role Playing Resource Archive' started by Sinrebirth, Sep 30, 2008.

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  1. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2004
    star 7
    In a word.

    GodModding.

    Clearly we're going to have numerous newbies come over and expect they can use powers like Starkiller. I'm concerned it's going to be an issue. Anyone else?

    Kahn_Iceay summed this up.

    [image=http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i46/kahn_Iceay/motivator8907096.jpg]
  2. Mango_Salsa Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2006
    star 1
    A game is only ever as good as its GM. If a GM allows a character that's designed to be god-modded, the game will suffer. If a player does something to seriously unbalance a game, it's the GM's responsibility to get the player to correct it. If it happens multiple times, the GM has the right to remove a player. "No god-modding" is in every TOS, right near "Have fun."

    Believe me, after some of the things I've seen allowed in games here, there's little that can be attempted that hasn't already been done and dusted.
  3. Winged_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4

    I think despite Starkiller's status as an apprentice, he has (like it or not) been shown to have a level of power and training that rivals most Jedi Masters and Sith Lords.

    And newbies are rarely allowed to play characters who are that advanced (in any well-run game, at least).

    In my opinion, TFU only calls into question what the strongest Force Users are capable of, not all Force Users. So the 'can I pull down a Star Destroyer' issue should not come up when dealing with newbies, as in most games they start near the bottom in terms of ability and have to earn their way up.
  4. The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2007
    star 6
    While the conditions and explanation as presented in the game and other materials may cause the occasional small bump or two, I don't think there are going to be any major long-term issues. Some people may want to play characters of such power, but unless the GM permits it, it ought to not cause too many problems.
  5. Sith-I-5 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2002
    star 5
    CLASSIC PIC!!!

    I had exactly the same thought about it giving 'ideas' to the Dark Jedi players in Galaxy at War, but to see it in motivational poster form! :D

    That is going on my work desktop!
  6. Mango_Salsa Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2006
    star 1
    Heck, I'd love to play a character of such power! :D It's just not a good idea.
  7. LightWarden Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2001
    star 4
    How did you guys NOT figure this out the moment the game was first announced? Given the amount of incessant fanboyism that came with Knights of the Old Republic, it's not really a surprise that the lampreys would latch onto the next big thing. So, if you're anything resembling a competent GM, then just adopt a sensible position. Just because a terrifying portion of this board is composed of devastatingly dense and uncreative gibbering chimps doesn't mean you have to feed them.

    Point is, Galen Marek was an aberration, possessing a large amount of potential that was refined through constant training with him being generally messed up. This is a guy with a very narrow skill set refined through life or death struggles.

    Plus, consider the context of his stunts. This guy is a two trick pony, armed solely with lightning and telekinesis (and half-handed lightsaber skills). He's a telekinetic prodigy, but don't expect him to do much else other than wreck things. Plus, the whole thing with the Star Destroyer impressed him about as much as it impressed everyone else, it's not like it's part of his routine arsenal. This was a guy who specialized in telekinesis pushing his gimmick to the maximum by going all-out in doing something that had a good chance of killing him in the process. He managed to succeed, but this would be something that served as a defining moment for him, the outlier rather than the mean of his abilities.

    With all his power, he still died, which pleased me immensely because I had no desire to see him become another ******* Revan (this board single-handedly managed to make me utterly loathe both Revan and HK-47 thanks to the constant spray of moronic mimicry like waste from a broken sewage line).

    So if I had a player with a character who was dedicated to one particular ability and there was a dramatic moment where he or she needed to pull off something big at a suitable time while everything was on the line, I just might let the player do that... assuming they wrote a really good post for it. If I disagree with the situation, effect, or past history, then you are officially gambling with your character's life. I have a precedent for this one, in Kevin J. Anderson's Darksaber, there was a moment where the members of the Jedi Academy all form a big hippie circle and channel their power through one member, knocking aside a fleet of Star Destroyers. The guy they channeled the power through was burnt to a crisp and died in the process, but the day was saved. As a GM, I don't have to be that merciful.

    As a GM, I set the general threshold of ability for the players in my game. If the players want characters who can do everything, that's fine, they just won't be able to do anything as well as the characters who focus their abilities into a few areas. A Jack Of All Trades character may be able at his or her best to do as well as a specialized character on an average day, while a specialized character may be able at his or her best to do something truly remarkable. I'm fine with characters who can make the impossible look merely very difficult, but I can and I will ban characters who make the impossible look easy.

    This is also why I vastly prefer a system wherein the GM resolves your actions, since that adds an element of the unknown that makes the game far more interesting than you determining how well your character does. You can adjust the odds in your favor with clever planning and use of your areas of expertise, but you don't always know what's going to happen.
  8. Kev-Mas_Colcha Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 15, 2002
    star 5
    I made the pic, Kahn coined the phrase. Here is a link that lets you create your own.

    Also, LW, I have been bracing for the impact that the game would bring since months before it came out. I just never said anything, as it probably wouldn't be an idea to give the Newbies any ideas.
  9. Ramza JC Head Admin and RPF Manager

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2008
    star 6
    *Jots down some notes*

    Don't mind me, just getting some ideas... :D

    Newbie jokes aside, I agree with LW. However, the job of keeping PCs in line with the power level of the game is always partially on the GMs' shoulders. Still, making a note in the rules about not making characters with that kind of raw destructive ability couldn't hurt.
  10. LightWarden Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2001
    star 4
    Well Kev, I've been on record as simultaneously supporting the use of the Dark Times era while hating the fact that it was going to turn into a mirror of the cesspool of unoriginality that is the KotOR copycats since December 6th, 2007, where NP modded most of my rant. So I win this one.

    Really, it's a pity that you get so many people who just seem to be unable to power down their characters and realize that super strong force abilities that allow you to wipe out legions of troops may not be on the same tier as say... a smuggler who's a deft hand with a blaster.

    Oh well, at least the games that accept them serve as the proverbial roach motels for these sorts of players and keep them from infesting the rest of the board. Though the accepting attitude doesn't exactly help squash the buggers either.
  11. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    With all his power, he still died, which pleased me immensely because I had no desire to see him become another ******* Revan.

    Oh please, no. Don't say that. You're going to give LucasArts stupid ideas. Next thing we know Marek's body winds up a crystal-encased trophy in the storehouse on Wayland, followed by his resurrection and escape courtesy of the midichlorians when Palpatine dies and sets off a wave in the Force. Or some such.

    As for what TFU's doing to do around here (the acronym, I might add in passing, is rather useful for somewhat less charitable suggestions) you will probably get a number of new players who will basically want to run Galen Marek nonetheless. I can only restate, in my usual Sisyphean style, the old suggestion: are you playing a text-based RPG, or are you playing a computer game? If the latter, then stick to the damn game.
  12. Sith-I-5 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2002
    star 5
    How did you guys NOT figure this out the moment the game was first announced?

    I hadn't even heard of the game until the patrons over at Hoopers started discussing the trailer, prompting me to check it out.

    I have known about this game a matter of days; also I tend to ignore next generation console fare, so I am pretty excited that a PS2 version is available too.
  13. nancyallen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2007
    star 4
    Just for me, the game simply adds another dimension to how I might play out a storyline. One character commenting on what Galem Marek does, "pity it failed, that's exactly what I would have done," or a passing referrence to something that happened in gsme.
  14. TheCRZA Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2005
    star 4
    In terms of pulling the Star Destroyer down... I would treat it as requiring all a Character's Force Points as a move of last desperation and most likely result in the character becoming one with the Force at the moment of completion (or dying from a stroke if a critical failure). It would take a lot of justifying this as not an instant turn to the dark side, not only would the character "die" (with a possiblitity of transfer later on, perhaps) but also be lost to the dark side. Sort of an inverted Obi Wan moment of evil sacrifice.
  15. TheManinBlack Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 1, 2007
    star 4
    ...

    :mad: KOTOR was good at least...now though...now....for the love of god!!!


    WHY?!? TFU was a crappy game, yet like LW said...I still see this happening. EASILY

    HK-47 is forgiviable, hell still excellant in capable hands but...Starkiller?

    He is nothing but a [self censored...just imgine what Shinji did in EoE my fellow anime friends] Gary Sue, with NOTHING Orginial or Creative about him.
  16. NickLitYouAFlame Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 2007
    star 5
    Think before you speak, MiB.
  17. TheManinBlack Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 1, 2007
    star 4
    I rented the game, and don't see what the deal deal is actually.

    Quite mad this was made before KOTOR III. I had alot of problems with this game story wise as well, despite the fact I actually like melodrama. It just seemed off. Everything about it, to be honest. From the concept that your dude will own Vader eventually to the big 'twist' at the end.

  18. NickLitYouAFlame Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 2007
    star 5
    The game closed up the gap between Episode III and IV. It's a bid deal, because it looks pretty and it's interesting.

    Also, no where does it tell you that you are going to own Vader.
  19. Sith-I-5 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2002
    star 5
    Unless Vader was on that Star Destroyer, and refusing to pick up his calls.
  20. Akisa Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 2008
    Actually you don't have to worry about it.

    If you start with 20 CHA (max cha unless there is a race with +4 Cha) the max Cha you'll ever get will be 25 or +7 Mod.

    So max mod would be 10 For Skill training and Focus + 7 Mod + 10 level for total of 27. A star destroyer's grapple modifier is +68 so basically any Star Destroyer will win against any oppose check. Now if the Star Destroyer's engines weren't working (which I believe was the case) the character needs to roll a DC 30 and spend a destiny point to even move it. If you're talking about freeform then have the GM say no...
  21. LightWarden Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2001
    star 4
    There is a race with +4 Cha, it's the Zeltrons. Anyways, you're forgetting the power of Aid Another, especially with a noble buddy using Coordinate. Master using Serenity+ buddies using Aid Another +Destiny Points= hilarity. It can be done, it just takes a great deal of effort, resources and teamwork. Which is kind of what was supposed to happen anyways.
  22. Akisa Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 2008
    Ok so that means natural +28 Serenity would make 48, Max coordinate would give +7 with aid another, and assume Inspire Confidence is in effect for total of 49. A normal party would be 3-6 so your Aid another would bring the total to 56 with a party of 3 (Jedi using the skill, Noble spending standard action to coordinate so can't aid another, and one other person aiding) and for a party of 6 it would 77. 77 may sound a lot but remember Star Destroyer has +68 grapple so it only has to roll a 9 or better to win, this is of course assuming everyone level 20, Noble takes max coordinate, and other players are using aid another on a UTF check (how are they aiding?). Before you say fool's luck for an extra +5 it's been errated to a competence bonus so it doesn't stack with skill focus.

    *edit* Actually above maybe incorrect if other players or at least noble could spend destiny point to act out of turn to add an additional add another. I don't think it's correct but if it's possible then yeah people are spending destiny points like water and working together.
  23. LightWarden Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2001
    star 4
    As to how they're aiding...

    But really, this is the subjection of GM jurisdiction. Even if the numbers are unfavorable, if there's a group effort and people are spending destiny points and the end result seems cool, I'd likely let it happen. As long as it's understood that this is a very rare occasion, I don't see the problem with allowing Yoda and the Superfriends to do something amazing.
  24. Ki_Undi_Mundi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2006
    star 3
    The whole allowing people to pull things like Star Destroyers out of the air is completely absurd. Any GM who has experience should know that people who are new to the boards have to work their way up from the bottom, not God mod and pull destroyers out of the air. And yes it's an issue because I've seen this on several RPG's, including my own which I had to shut down because a newbie was making plot changes that were absurd. So I'm going to have to say it's an issue.
  25. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    For some reason this made me snigger uncontrollably.

    It works rather well especially if you've got Ah-nold as Starkiller:

    *CRRAAAAAAASSSSHHHH*
    *Vader comes stumbling out*

    "I do not lahk ansvering macheen."
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