PT How much did Count Dooku know?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by JevanShevu, Jan 4, 2013.

Moderators: heels1785, Seagoat
  1. P.Sam Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2011
    star 1
    I think Dooku knew only the part of the plan that included him and not the true prupose of Sidious which was to take over both remnant of the Seps and the Republic to build his own Empire. It is unlikely that his knowledge of the situation was beyond that. I think he was made to believe by his master that the Republic would fall conquered by the CIS. now doubt this possiblity was real in Dooku's mind since the Republic was so corrupted having a Sith Master as Chanceler and the Jedi Army devided.
    Last edited by P.Sam, Jan 8, 2013
  2. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    I agree, Dooku could've given Palps a final finger by blurting out "Palpatine is the Sith Lord!". I guess he was just in such shock from being defeated by Anakin and being betrayed by his master. @King Terak, that's a good point. I think because Maul was practically born Sith and Palpatine was basically his father, there was a greater trust between them, Sidious knowing Maul had no ambition other than to do his bidding and destroy the Jedi. With Dooku Sidious knew that Dooku coveted personal power and would at some point rise up against him.
  3. Samuel Vimes Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    That reasoning doesn't work as Dooku was very much involved with the creation of the clone army for the republic.
    So he was involved in the creation of two armies that he knew would fight each other. If Palpatine just wanted the seps to conquer the republic then why bother giving the republic a clone army, fair play? No, Dooku knew that their plan was to create a civil war, with both sides having armies. Both armies are made so that they can be controlled by one or a few people, droids can be shut down, clones obey any order.

    Bye for now.
    The Guarding Dark
    V-2 likes this.
  4. P.Sam Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2011
    star 1
    To earn the trust and respect of the systems throughout the Galaxy the Separatist had to take down the Republic and come out of it as the victorious and rightful 'government' to be considered as legitimate. It is much more easier to gain control when your dictatorship is 'rightful' and well-supported. It keeps the opposition into a non-threatening minority. That was the key of Sidious' reign over the Galaxy until the Rebels grew stronger and much more organised. By the creation and the discovery of this clone army, the Republic was forced to enter a long and bloody war gainst the Separatist' forces despite oppositions in which Senator Amidala was a well-known figure. My point is there is perhaps no connection at all with the behind-the-scene work of Dooku to assure that a Republic army was to be created to start the process of war and his knowledge of Sidious' true purpose with it. Dooku may well have thought that by his Master controlling both sides, it was only a matter of time before the Republic collapse leaving the Seps to take it's place. But all had to look credible and logical for their plan (at least the plan Tyrannus thought he knew) to work.
    Last edited by P.Sam, Jan 10, 2013
  5. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 8
    Dooku's thoughts on what The Plan was, in the RoTS novel, seemed to be based on the republic winning the war- he's taken prisoner, Anakin announces the Jedi are corrupt, and founds the Sith Army.

    Of course, he was wrong.
  6. Vialco Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2007
    star 4
    Pun not intended I take it?
    V-2 and Arawn_Fenn like this.
  7. Fives_Says_No_To_Sixes Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2013
    star 3
    I also think that Dooku fit Palpatine's plas for that moment - Palps knew that we would need a political figure to manipulate at some point...often i think people see Maul as being the least important of Palps' apprentices (since he's "killed") so soon in Palps' plan but i completely agree that Maul was probably more entrusted (even if he was obviously disrespected) than Dooku and Dooku was just this one cog in the whole machine to Palpatine...His death really is tragic to me as well when you see it that way.
  8. Vialco Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2007
    star 4
    Dooku knew almost everything, save for the fact that Palpatine had an unhealthy obsession with Anakin Skywalker. Dooku had nothing but scorn for Anakin and never really acknowledged the Chosen One's power until he was on his knees, handless, and utterly defeated.
  9. Lord_kimo1 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2009
    That would be interesting!
  10. Darthbane2007 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2007
    star 4
    yeah, having a 100 year old geezer would really make things interesting...
  11. Joe Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 25, 2012
    star 6
    In the ROTS novel, it details how Dooku wanted to create a new Dark Jedi Order to enforce the will of the Empire
  12. Trask Ulgo Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2012
    star 3
    I think Revan and Dooku are pretty similar. They both are said to have fallen but I think they wanted to save the galaxy in the only way they knew how.
  13. TheRevanchist Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 13, 2012
    star 2
    He did know it, be sure about it. In the Revenge of the Sith novel he makes a conversation with Palpatine what he should do when Kenobi and Skywalker were arriving.
  14. TheRevanchist Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 13, 2012
    star 2
    I don't think that they are similar at all. Dooku fall to the Dark Side, yes because he wanted to save the Republic and thought that that was the only way, in process killed billions and pretty much all the time was a pawn of Sidious.

    Revan on the other side became a Darth because Vitiate made him so. Anyway he soon became independent and decided to take over the Republic to prepare it better for the ultimate battle.against the Sith, meaning that he was preparing to defeat the Sith in their own way. Ultimately, turned away from the dark side, something that Dooku never did, and Revan pretty much was never a pawn like Dooku.
  15. Samuel Vimes Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    But that reasoning doesn't work either as the Separatists presumably want to SEPARATE from the Republic and not take it over, otherwise why would they be called separatists?
    So a seps victory would split the republic into parts, the remants of the republic, possibly forced to pay taxes to the seps, and some sort of new union for the separatists. Already in AotC there are lots of systems that want to leave the republic and join the seps so they need no further encouragement.

    No, it seems that Dooku knew what the ultimate plan was, to take over the republic. And there a long bloody war makes the citizens scared and willing to give up their freedom for order and security.
    Also Dooku knew about the DS and presumably what that would ultimately be used for.

    Bye for now.
    The Guarding Dark
  16. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    Revan WAS a pawn. Even worse because he was brainwashed.
  17. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    It wasn't like that, Dooku knew that Sidious' goal was to take over the entire galaxy, not rule a portion of it. That has always been the goal of the Sith. However Sidious allowed him to have delusions about creating a Sith Empire in place of the Jedi.
    Lord_kimo1 likes this.
  18. TheRevanchist Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 13, 2012
    star 2
    A pawn of the Jedi Council? Indeed he was for a time, like almost every Jedi. A pawn of Vititate? It didn't turned that well for the Emperor.
  19. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    Lol I completely forgot about Kotor 1..so yeah he was brainwashed TWICE! Idunno I consider Revan to be a strong character and he's definitely one of my faves...but you can't say that he wasn't under control of other just as Dooku was. At least Dooku was doing so of his own free will.
  20. TheRevanchist Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 13, 2012
    star 2
    Well, he was in control of The Emperor for a short time but that's it. Brainwashed from the Jedi Council? That is valid for every Jedi, even Masters of The Jedi Council are brainwashed from the Jedi rules. Anyway, Revan was independent in Mandalorian Wars, was in a way Emperor of his Empire which he created (in process making one of the biggest wars in the Galactic History, the famous Jedi Civil War), and later single handed destroyed it. After it he went to destroy the true Sith, again just himself without anybody consulting. And later after the Great Galactic War he was independent in his search to destroy the Sith. Anyway, it's clear to see that in every part of his life he was the main actor. Unlike Count Dooku who was all the time a pawn of Palpatine. Pretty much Palpatine made him friend, helped to fall to the dark side, made him the leader of separatists (also using Dooku's wealth to finance the war) and made him apprentice until the time would come for Anakin Skywalker. In ROTS novel, Dooku would have gladly sacrifice himself in order for Palpatine to achieve success. That was what he thought was the plan of Palpatine, until he realized that the plan was all the time for him to be killed from Skywalker.

    So pretty much, the only similarity between Revan and Dooku is that both of them were Jedi who fall to the dark side. But here similarities finish. In fact, I think that Dooku has more similarities with Palpatine than with everyone else (though it is obvious that Palpatine was much smarter and stronger). Their motives for what they did to Republic were pretty much the same.
  21. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    Dude. You got so much wrong in that post.

    The Jedi Civil War was def not one of the biggest wars in galactic history. Not even top 5.

    When I referred to brainwashing I wasn't talking about Jedi rules...I was talking about when the Jedi literally wiped Revan's mind clean and made him forget who he was then turned him into a Jedi.

    Dooku had lost faith in the Jedi and may have fallen to the dark-side before even realizing Palpatine was Sidious. Dooku was never willing to sacrifice himself for Palpatine, do u have a direct quote from the novel because I didn't see this during my reading.
  22. TheRevanchist Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 13, 2012
    star 2
    It's definitely in Top 10, and most likely it was on Top 5. If it wasn't for him, the Republic would have destroyed, and if it wasn't for Exile (a former informal apprentice of him) 5 years later, the Jedi Order would have wiped out. In fact less Jedi survived those wars then the Order 66.

    Which did last for only a few months. He soon started to regain his memories quick.[/quote]

    Probably before realizing, but he was a good friend of Palpatine and told him that he will try to join force with the other Sith Lord (from Darth Plagueis novel). From that it was a simple game for Palps to turn him to the Dark Side. Neutralize Skywalker, kill Kenobi were the clear instructions from Palpatine for that famous battle. Skywalker will arrest you and so he will became an even greater hero for the Republic. Later when he will fall, he will lead an army of Sith that will replace the Jedi Order. That was the 'plan'. Unfortunately for him, this was never the true plan of Palpatine.
    Last edited by TheRevanchist, Jan 14, 2013
  23. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    So Dooku WASN'T willing to sacrifice himself. The plan was to pretend to be captured and then Palpatine and Anakin would release him later on.

    So you admit Revan WAS brainwashed (literally) by the Jedi Council. Dooku never was.

    And the JCW was before the First Jedi purge. So I don't know what u mean by less Jedi survived. Also, the fate of the Republic is on the line in almost every galactic war bud, that's what makes it a galactic war.
    Last edited by The Supreme Chancellor, Jan 14, 2013
    DarthRelaxus and Lord_kimo1 like this.
  24. P.Sam Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2011
    star 1

    To me it works well. In order to separate from the Republic the Separatist has to defeat it first and formost. By winning this war, the Separatist become the new ruling order of the Galaxy. Indeed, in this scenario the remnants of the Rep that have been defeated must therefore surrender and so recognize the Separatist mouvment as the new legitimate governement of the Galaxy. If they do otherwise they're consired Rebels and outlaws.
    Last edited by P.Sam, Jan 15, 2013
  25. Ambervikings91 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 1, 2012
    star 3
    Well he certainly didn't know about the part where he was expendable becuz of anakin :)
Moderators: heels1785, Seagoat