PT How much did Count Dooku know?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by JevanShevu, Jan 4, 2013.

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  1. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    It was almost ridiculous that Dooku couldn't tell that Palpatine was planning to replace him with an insanely powerful and malleable young Jedi teetering on the dark-side of the Force.
  2. Rauno Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2013
    star 1
    I was watching ROTS last night and the part where Anakin kills Dooku got me wondering. Did Dooku knew who he was? He seemed surprised when Palpatine ordered the kill.

    Also this might not be the right place to ask anymore but are there any books about him? Darth Plagueis really got me intrigued on how he left the Jedi for sith and so on..
    Last edited by SithStarSlayer, Feb 10, 2014
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  3. sharkymcshark Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 12, 2013
    star 2
    ROTS Novelisation makes it clear that he did know, but Sidious had told him that the plan was to kill Obi Wan and Anakin, not to have them kill him.
  4. Seagoat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2013
    star 4
    Correction: He told Dooku to kill Obi-Wan, and lower Anakin's morale so he could be persuaded to join them
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  5. Moviefan2k4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 29, 2009
    star 4
    Yes, Dooku knew full well of Sidious' alternate identity; that's the main reason he was so shocked to hear the kill order.
  6. Lulu_Mars Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2005
    star 1
    If you keep in mind that he knows when he tells Obi-Wan about Sidious, it becomes almost ridiculously obvious what he's saying:

    1. The Republic is under the control of the Dark Lord of the Sith.

    2. Hundreds of Senators are under the influence of a Sith Lord called Darth Sidious.

    He's more or less telling Obi-Wan that Sidious is the Supreme Chancellor!
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  7. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    However, the Jedi didn't think Dooku was telling the truth with that statement. And even later on, when they realized that Sidious had infiltrated the highest levels of the government, they didn't suspect Palpatine himself. They thought Sidious was one of Palpatine's advisors, Mas Amedda or Sate Pestage or someone.
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  8. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    But the question is if Dooku knew Sidious was Palpatine. And he did.
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  9. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    Yes, it is blatantly obvious that Dooku knew who Sidious was.

    As for the OP's other question, apart from Darth Plagueis, the novels that feature the Dooku the most are Labyrinth of Evil and Yoda: Dark Rendezvous.
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  10. May_The_Force_Be_With_You Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2014
    star 1
    Yeah - it seems that Dooku knew of Sidious' real identity (or vice versa depending on how you look at it).

    As for the Jedi not putting two and two together...utterly ridiculous. Even if they thought that Dooku was planting seeds of doubt to divide the Jedi Order from the Republic - it was still stupid. Especially since they constantly said the Dark Side surrounds Palpatine. Even if they meant that figuratively and not via the Force - surely they had enough suspicion that Palpatine was at least in league with Sidious?
  11. Lulu_Mars Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2005
    star 1
    In ROTS, they did. That's why they asked Anakin to spy on him.
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  12. Cushing's Admirer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2006
    star 6
    I'd say it was shown clearly Tyranus knew who Sidious was. He simply retained a bit of his Jedi heart in trusting his Master too much hence his shock at the execution call.
  13. Master_Rebado Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2004
    star 2
    I always thought Dooku did know and as has been canvassed above - there's a number of clear reasons to conclude he did know.
  14. May_The_Force_Be_With_You Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2014
    star 1
    True. True. Although, it still seems peculiar that, that would be the option they would opt for. I know without definitive proof - they weren't going to kick down the doors and arrest Palpatine, but it is overwhelmingly stupid the Jedi put one of their own to stand by Palpatine (whom they suspect has deep ties to the Sith). One of their own who was volatile, quick to anger, easily manipulated, emotional, and sympathetic to Palpatine. If they suspected that Palpatine was in league with Sidious, they practically handed Anakin to the dark side on a silver platter.

    I guess that was more of Lucas showing the Jedi Order were truly blind...
  15. Sable_Hart Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2009
    star 4
    Anakin was the Council's only viable option as a spy; they didn't select him because of his talents with espionage but rather his close association with Palpatine. It was a gamble that ultimately failed, but they had sound reasons for relying on Anakin.
  16. Darth Dominikkus Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 2013
    star 3
    Dooku did know of the identity of Sideous/Palpatine. The reason why Dooku looked shocked at the moment he realized he was going to die was because he did not prove himself to be a worthy apprentice of Sideous. Sith apprenticeship is a competition for who is the strongest, and because Dooku was inferior to Anakin, which is why he lost the duel, Sideous ordered him to die since Anakin unknowingly proved himself to be the better of the two.
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  17. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    Palpatine had spoken with Dooku prior to this scene. The conversation played out something like, "Kill Kenobi, then fight Skywalker. If you should defeat him, then this proves he is not worthy to join us. If by some chance he should defeat you however, I will intervene to spare you any unnecessary embarrassment."

    He never counted on Palpatine ordering Anakin to kill him. But treachery is the way of the Sith.
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  18. Lady_Misty Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 21, 2007
    star 4
    Dooku knew about Sidious/Palpatine; I have no doubt.

    The Jedi didn't really think that Palpatine was Sidious because Palpatine already controlled the Senate.
  19. Rauno Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2013
    star 1
    Where'd you get this? A novel?
  20. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Yes- the RoTS novelization, and I think also Labyrinth of Evil.
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  21. mes520 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 3
    I wish that scene with Dooku and Sidious had been in the movie.
  22. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    I'm glad it didn't. It would weaken Dooku as a character. Why would Dooku believe Sidious would spare him if Anakin had defeat him?
    Last edited by Alexrd, Feb 3, 2014
  23. mes520 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 3

    I disagree. I feel it would have strengthened his character. The audience would have understood his character better, his goals, the plan, or what he thought he was the plan.

    As for why Dooku believed Sidious, he made a mistake many made in the PT. Being too trusting of Palpatine. Also Dooku believed he could defeat Anakin, and he was only going to pretend defeat iirc
  24. Beezer Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2013
    star 4
    Ignoring the nonsense that is the EU.....

    IMHO, Episode 2 makes it clear Dooku knows Sidious = Palpatine. He tells Obi-Wan that the Senate is under control of the Dark Lord, plus he has that end-of-movie discussion with Sidious. I guess you could say E3 by itself doesn't really make it clear, but that's because the audience has already been informed that Dooku is in on the whole thing.
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  25. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    Please stop with your EU bashing. The mods have repeatedly told you to stop.
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