Lit How much did Dooku know?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Vialco, Dec 15, 2012.

  1. Vialco Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2007
    star 4
    In Darth Plagueis, Dooku reveals a lot to Senator Palpatine while he's still a Jedi Master.

    He makes a lot of pointed comments about the Sith and admits that he wants to learn the secrets of the Dark side of the Force.

    Following Palpatine's election, he and the new Chancellor have another chat, where Dooku admits that he wants to find the second Sith Lord. But instead of killing him, he wants to make an alliance and work together to rebuild the Republic from the ground up.

    So how long did Dooku know or suspect Palpatine to be what he was. Did Dooku also know that Hego Damask was a Sith Lord?

    Also, Dooku seems to be predisposed to turn to the Dark side, if he had never met Palpatine, would he still have joined the Dark side?
  2. Gorefiend Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2004
    star 5
    Pretty impressiv for a man who never learned his first name. [face_tee_hee]
  3. Barriss_Coffee Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2003
    star 6
    From the movies, it's hard to say anything definitive about what he knew. He know Palps=Sids in AOTC and obviously looked betrayed in ROTS, but there's not much else we can say without speculating.

    The ROTS novel's pretty detailed, with Dooku living in his own fantasy universe Palps seems to have developed for him. Too bad we don't see that elaborated on in much else. In most of the other books/comics/etc, he's really just a glorified henchman. Dark Rendezvous arguably went into his background more than most stories, and even that left his relationship with Palps mostly ambiguous.

    He appears to be a CIS telemarketer in TCW.
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  4. Vialco Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2007
    star 4
    The Dooku holograms are getting tedious, especially since he can't do anything but observe.

    As for Dooku's fall, something occurred to me. Dooku is very arrogant, he considers himself the most powerful Jedi.

    Palpatine may have tempted him solely with the power of Dark side. Dooku was definitely a power hungry man. He and Palpatine have that in common.
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  5. Dawud786 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 28, 2006
    star 4
    I reckon Dooku was about as cognizant of what was really going on as Saruman was, to the bitter end. Fitting too.
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  6. FatSmel Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 23, 2012
    star 3
    I'm assuming Dooku knew Sidious' identity at the time of, or just prior to, him leaving the order and became his apprentice. There is no way Dooku was training as a Sith wothout knowing his master's identity. They obviously spent a lot of face to face time, talking and training, like in AOTC end scene.
  7. Vialco Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2007
    star 4
    Oh definitely.

    I'm just wondering exactly when the reveal would have happened and whether Dooku already knew before it happened.
  8. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Dooku's conversation at the end of Plagueis does feel a little like he's dropping hints- which might mean that he knows what Palpatine is by this point.
  9. TheRevanchist Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 13, 2012
    star 2
    I agree. Wouldn't rule out that he know about Damesk too.
  10. General Immodet Force Ghost

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    Dec 5, 2012
    star 4
    Palpatine sure didn't tell Dooku that much. The Ep3 Novel clearly shows that Dooku really didn't see Palpatine's betrayal coming.
    That's why Palpatine is a true Sith Lord and Dooku isn't. For Palpatine, Dooku was just a tool.

    I don't think Dooku would have joined the Dark Side without being influenced by Palpatine.
    He would have left the Order, that's for sure. Maybe even lead the Seppies. But turing in a Sith Lord, I dunno...
  11. Havac Former Moderator

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2005
    star 7
    How the hell would Dooku know?
  12. General Immodet Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2012
    star 4
    Holocrons...

    or... THE HOLONET :)
  13. Ferus Olin Jedi Master

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    Oct 2, 2012
    star 1
    Dooku knew that Palpatine was Darth Sidious. He thought that he and Palpatine were controlling the Clone wars because he knew what Palpatine was going to do in the end. The only thing he didn't know was that Palpatine was going to replace him with Anakin and in the end that one thing cost him his life.
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  14. General Immodet Force Ghost

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    Dec 5, 2012
    star 4
    Which Dooku are we talking about? :)
  15. Barriss_Coffee Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2003
    star 6
    Screw dopplegangers; at this point I'm halfways convinced "The Clone Wars" involved some sort of crazy mind-games where each side had cloned a dozen copies of its leading members.

    Where did Dooku find the time to call up every Sep every hour of the day? Clones.
    How come the same Jedi keep dying? Clones.
    Why does Grievous suck some days and not others? He had some clone defects. This also explains why there are like 4 entirely different explanations for his coughing fits right now.
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  16. Nobody145 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2007
    star 4
    Of course, clones, that explains everything! During AotC, that was the first clone, Dooku, after an unfortunate training accident involving Doku. Then they had a few more to answer all those holoconferences Dooku had to oversee, such as the Seperatist parliament. Heck, by the time of RotS they were probably up to Dooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooku.

    That probably explains all those Ventress deaths too, come to think of it. :p

    On a more serious note, Dooku was probably just deluded, partially self-deluded. He thought he knew Palpatine's ultimate plan, to reshape the Republic into a "better" Empire, partially for the sake of the galaxy, just that he didn't realize he wouldn't have a place there. He was already such a perfect scapegoat, he thought he could place the blame for the Clone Wars on Grievous, but Palpatine wouldn't even bother with that. Not to mention the whole Rule of Two thing, possibly similar to Damask thinking he and Palpatine had gone past the need for the Rule of Two, and Dooku thought Palpatine spending all that time on Anakin Skywalker meant they were just expanding Sith numbers... but nope, Palpatine still has only two in mind, and Dooku isn't one of those two. Although that's partially self-delusion, as Dooku never liked admitting Anakin might have had some potential, being so far from the ideal of a gentlemen, unlike Dooku himself of course. :rolleyes:

    At the time of Darth Plagueis and up to TPM, I expect Dooku didn't really know, although its debatable how far fallen Dooku was at various times. When he killed Sifo-Dyas and took over managing the clone army, including recruiting Jango Fett as the prime donor, that was the last step, but while he might have been dropping hints, I don't like to think he was quite that far gone, but then Yoda and Mace were sentimental so they might have missed the warning signs. Depending on the portrayal, Dooku was either always messed up (like his RotS novelization POV indicates), or he just got more bitter over time, leaving him an easy target for Palpatine to use as a quick replacement for Maul, and a convenient figurehead for the soon to be formed Confederacy.

    I haven't read Plagueis for a while, but while Dooku was falling, and was possibly always flawed based on how most of his apprentices turned out (Plagueis was really worried about Qui-gon messing things up at Naboo, and guess its sort of a compliment that he said Qui-gon wasn't like the rest of Dooku's messed-up students), at the time Dooku probably just fell into the same category as those disaffected with the Republic, which made him a perfect "leader" for the systems that were going to secede soon.
  17. General Immodet Force Ghost

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    Dec 5, 2012
    star 4
    So, Clone Wars is just a synonym for Star Wars...
  18. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    Nov 28, 2000
    star 10
    Um, guys, isn't already blatantly obvious that he's a clone?

    His name is Dooku, after all.
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  19. Vialco Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2007
    star 4
    Based on Dooku's very pointed remarks at the end of Darth Plagueis, it seems more and more likely that he did indeed know that Palpatine was the second Sith Lord, the master of Darth Maul. That he seeks an alliance with Sidious, rather than killing him or turning him in, is a testament to just how far Dooku had fallen. Wanting to ally with a Sith Lord to rule the Republic shows that Dooku had ceased being a Jedi in spirit long before he stopped being one in name.
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  20. Havac Former Moderator

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2005
    star 7
    Again, how?

    Did Dooku just accidentally walk into his senatorial office when Palpatine was doing his Sidious routine? Or maybe he found a note that slipped out of Palpatine's pocket saying "Pick up Sith holocrons for Darth Maul this afternoon"? Was he just hanging around the Jedi Temple when Jorus C'baoth sidled up and told him about the one time he saw Palpatine idly doodling Sith symbols in the margins of his appointment book? Perhaps he just looked Palpatine in the eye, and got that feeling, and exclaimed to himself, "Now that right there is a Sith, I do declare!"

    Oh, wait, I've got it! He kept asking a Quay if prominent figures were secret Sith Lords until he finally got a positive answer!
  21. CaptainPeabody Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2008
    star 2
    Well, he looked at Palpatine's political platform, and it quickly became obvious that only someone secretly bent on the utter destruction of civilization as we know it could ever take those positions on those issues. Once he saw his vote on Ithorian memorial parks, the matter was cinched.

    Either that, or he'd just decided that if he was trying to find a Sith Lord, hanging around Senate offices dropping dark hints was probably the most efficient way to do it.

    Obviously, it worked out okay in the end.
  22. _Catherine_ Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2007
    star 4
    Dooku subscribes to the John Blake school of detective work.
  23. Sable_Hart Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2009
    star 4
    Or perhaps the Christopher Nolan school, for anyone who's seen The Dark Knight Rises. Palpatine might have walked into a room somewhere and Dooku could just see it in his eyes.
    Palpatine has eyes! ... A Sith Lord would have eyes too...
  24. Ulicus Lit'ari

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    Jul 24, 2005
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  25. Havac Former Moderator

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2005
    star 7
    . . . Have you?
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