How much do the Seperatists know?

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith (Non-Spoilers)' started by Aesop, Jul 31, 2003.

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  1. Aesop Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2003
    star 1
    Now, it would make Palpatine's character so much more of an evil-genius if he was controlling the senate under the name Palpatine and the Seperatists under the name Sidious, therefore being the only person aware of his dual-identity and single handedly rising to power in the Galaxy.

    However, Dooku's line in AOTC about Sidious controling the Galactic Senate leads us to believe otherwise. This line could have been along different terms, though. Such as Dooku believeing Sidious has spies or different agents on the inside.

    Personally, I also think that it would make Episode III a lot better if Sidious was the only one that knew of the dual-identity and it was a suprise to both sides of the Clone Wars that their leader was living a double-life and the entire galaxy had been seamingly "duped" into giving supreme power to one man.

    This, still, raises another question. How will his revelation not force both the Republic and Seperatists to band together to destroy Sidious? I was always under the impression the Galaxy would be turned against the Jedi and willingly put Palpatine into power as Emperor.

    But, as he is a known Sith in the Original Trilogy, the Republic must know of his being a two-face. How would they ever allow someone that in secret was fighting a war against the republic become their leader?

    Even if he was found out AFTER being given power, how would he put all the stormtroopers and people under his control. Fear of one man? I don't think so.

    Sidious must use the Sepratist forces to help secure and oppress the galaxy initially, which means to me that atleast some of the leading members of the Confederacy are totally aware of Sidous' plot and willing to help and he is not one single evil doer. This also means that the Sepratists do not become the Rebellion.

    The Republic will initially be winning/win the Clone Wars, put Palpatine into higher power, and in come the seperatists to take over the Galaxy.

    Agree that the Seperatists are all in on the plot? Disagree with that or anything else I said?

    EDIT--In the "fear of one man" part, I may have been a bit off. Anakin will also be alongside Palpatine with an additional handful of, corrupt, top-ranking members of the republic promised power by them. But it's still the same deal. An entire galaxy and army with fear of about 20 men?
  2. cratylus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2001
    star 2
    Palpatine is not a known Sith Lord in the OT.

    One of the revelationsof the PT (OK it was obvious in retrospect) was that the Emperor was in fact a sith lord and not any of several other things (skilled amateur, careful outside student of the jedi, etc.)

    People in the Empire period don't believe in the force. Hence the sith reality behind the throne is still secret. If a high ranking general will actually taunt Darth vader about his force interests I think it is a pretty safe bet that even the upper-ups have no idea that Palpatine has a secret.
  3. Aesop Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2003
    star 1
    Open Sith or not, I can't see a way that the masses would simply give-in to the ideals he would place on the Galaxy without a fight once his true motives were shown.
  4. Fingorfin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2001
    star 4
    I don't believe that the Seperatists know that they are being controled by Sidious. Only Dooku knows this. Those that follow Dooku think that he is their leader. I do not expect that it will ever be revealed to the galaxy that Palpatine was behind it all.


    Open Sith or not, I can't see a way that the masses would simply give-in to the ideals he would place on the Galaxy without a fight once his true motives were shown.
    They didn't. He already had firm control of the military and politcal power when his motives were revealed, and then there was an armed rebellion.
  5. Aesop Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2003
    star 1
    They didn't. He already had firm control of the military and politcal power when his motives were revealed, and then there was an armed rebellion.

    Agreed now, but despite my faulty logic, it is still a valid question whether the Seperatists are in cahoots with Sidious or as blind to him as the Republic.

    In my opinion, many of the leaders of the Confederacy have been let in on Sidious' plans.
  6. Fingorfin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2001
    star 4
    Why would you think that?
    If some guy told me about his plan to use me as a disposable pawn in his scheme to get absolute power for himself, I wouldn't be very inclined to accept his offer.
  7. Jedi_Master201 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2001
    star 5
    You would if you were confident that you could overthrow him and take his absolute power for yourself when the time was right..


    EDIT: Ah, hmm.. Didn't read the post before this. This group wouldn't join someone wanting to do this.


    Now, my argument still stands for one person joining the guy wanting absolute power.
  8. Lord_Hydronium Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2002
    star 5
    Dooku knows. I mean, he's seen the guy face-to-face, it would probably be a lot more obvious that he's Palpatine than to say, the Neimoidians, who only saw him in a grainy hologram. And he's so intricately involved in setting the CIS up that Palpatine must have him in his confidence.

    Poggle, I think, knows about the existence of Sidious, since Dooku mentions his master to his face. It's highly likely that he knows nothing more, otherwise he wouldn't be on Dooku's side.

    Nute Gunray and the TF are clueless that Sidious is even involved. I'm guessing that the rest of the factions of the CIS are as well. They all think Dooku's on their side, helping to fight the Republic.
  9. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    But you also have to look at what groups are involved in the Confederacy/Separatists.

    We're all trying to figure out how the Confederacy ties into the Rebel Alliance in the OT.

    Look at the Rebel Alliance: a bunch of idealistic, democratic guerrilla fighters, who were fighting for justice and freedom.

    Then look at the Separatists/Confederacy: The Trade Federation, The Banking Clan, The Techno Union, etc. - all incredibly wealthy and powerful organizations.

    I'm sure Dooku has said look, stick with me and you'll have all the power and money you want - I doubt they realize they are being used.

    I'm sure that maybe some idealistic groups join the Confederacy, thinking it is better than the sloth and corruption of the Republic, but what we're presented with in AOTC is a bunch of multi-national (or galactic) corporations.
  10. MOSEP Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2002
    star 2
    "Poggle, i think, knows about the existence of Sidious"

    I´ve always wondered about that.
    Dooku is the leader of the separatists, that ´s what everybody´s told, right?

    But the Count has obviously let poggle in,
    at least a bit, telling him that he has a master.
    Is poggle the only one aware of this?
  11. Aesop Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2003
    star 1
    Why would you think that?
    If some guy told me about his plan to use me as a disposable pawn in his scheme to get absolute power for himself, I wouldn't be very inclined to accept his offer.


    I mean that they know Sidious is the Supreme Chancellor as well and plans on using the position to become Emperor. The Seperatists may have been told that they would be given whole planets to own, or more powerful positions, or something of the like, when he came into power. They certainly did not know that he's using them as a disposable pawn.

    edit-- Even if it's just Poogle and Dooku, I'm convinced at least a few Confederate leaders are aware of the plot to some extent.
  12. Ghost_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2003
    star 5
    I believe that like everything else, Palps is using the Separatists. I believe once his grip over the empire is firm he will have no more of a problem disposing of them as he would the Jedi.
  13. Darth_Banal Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2002
    star 6
    suprise to both sides of the Clone Wars that their leader was living a double-life and the entire galaxy had been seamingly "duped" into giving supreme power to one man. This, still, raises another question. How will his revelation not force both the Republic and Seperatists to band together to destroy Sidious?

    Well, I think that before people know that Palpatine/Sidious is evil, the Separatists will be mostly destroyed by the Clone Wars.

    And as for the Republic, Dooku said they're under Sidious' control, so by and large they wouldn't revolt.

    You're assuming it will become public knowledge that Palpatine/Sidious was playing both sides. IMO, he's smarter than that. Remember, this is the guy who duped the Trade Federation in TPM, and after they lost the Battle of Naboo, and went to court because of serving Sidious' ends, they still are serving him ten years later, likely without knowing it!
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