How much is written about the New Sith Wars?

(This would be the thousand-year period 2k-1k years before the Battle of Yavin that ended with Darth Bane making his rule of two.)

I did some searching, and from what I can tell, there isn't much written about it. What would I want to do if I wanted to make a setting for a pen and paper roleplaying game set in this era? Anything I need to know (quantity of dark jedi versus members of the Jedi Order; extent of Republic involvement, and if any then their military capabilities; Sith usage of non-force users a'la KOTOR; etc...)?

 

All that is known is what happened in the Battle of Ruusan and the tidbits from the Mandalorian bio in Insider.

Why not check the Star Wars wiki?

http://starwars.wikicities.com/wiki/New_Sith_Wars

 

Also, the Durge story in Visionaries seems to be a prelude to the New Sith Wars.

 

So the lack of writing about it seems to imply that little has been decided, then? The Wiki (of which I checked some of but evidently not ALL of) reflects that.

A link after the link you gave me mentioned the Jedi disbanding their armies and abandoning their battle armor, and some link-following also indicates that they did not have a temple on Coruscant until after this time. Are there any pictures of this battle armor? I'd assume in some comics and on book covers, but which ones?

I'm assuming this means that I can't look at the KOTOR series and expect it to agree with everything else about the pre-NSW Jedi Order? Because basically, they seem like they are the prequel-era Jedi Order.

Wow, this is all so confusing.

 

The New Sith Wars occured about 2000-1000 years before the Battle of Yavin. Little is known about them except for their ending at the Battle of Ruusan. Here are some of the sources I can remember:

-Jedi vs. Sith; comic dealing with Darth Bane and the Battle of Ruusan, probably the best visual source for the time period
-Power of the Jedi Sourcebook; RPG sourcebook that has lots of info on Jedi and some history of that period.
-Dark Side Sourcebook; another RPG sourcebook that covers the Dark Side and contains some stuff on Bane and the Sith of that era.
-Dark Forces: Jedi Knight; the novella/graphic novel, not the game, deals with the Battle of Ruusan in some parts and the game deals with the after-effects and the legend.
-Bane of the Sith;short story in Gamer about Darth Bane after the end of the New Sith Wars
-Mandalorian article; Insider #80 article dealing with Mandalorians, but also contains tid-bits about the New Sith Wars.
-Essential Chronology; nothing too specific, but this guide gives some information on the era and war.
-Star Wars: Visionaries; recent graphic novel that supposedly has a story ("Prototypes") about Durge in this era. However, the dating of the story is inconclusive and there are other problems with it that need to be worked out.

There are probably a number of smaller references that I'm forgetting right now, but these are most of the major publications dealing with the New Sith Wars.

Edit: It has been postulated by fans that the New Sith Wars caused a "Dark Age" in the galaxy the resulted in the stagnation of technology, etc. This would explain why in Jedi vs. Sith all of the armor, equipment, and ships look archaic, even though they are over two thousand years younger than the ones in KOTOR.

 

At Celebration III, the 2006 Drew Karpyshyn novel was announced by Sue Rostoni to be not a Tales of the Jedi-era book as we were all thinking, but a full-on character study of Darth Bane from his childhood up through the Battle of Ruusan.

There's another major wellspring of material for you, one that's likely to finally flesh out not only the "dark age" hypothesis, but also the so-called "Republic Reformation" to an extent hitherto unseen.

 

Oh bah. 2006? I hope to be releasing the RPG by then, if all goes well. There's always the "alternate history" card, but I dislike having to do that.

The idea was to have this all be focused near the beggining of the period anyway, with Jedi vs Sith seems to be near the end (though I'll still look into it, if for no reason other than graphical inspiration).

So if I try to make the setting work for... Say... The first two-hundred years of the conflict, would I be looking at armor-clad Sith troopers like in Knights of the Old Republic battling with armor-clad Republic/Jedi troopers (in addition to the light/dark jedi battling), or am I just talking about a bunch of dark force users fighting light force users?

Since KOTOR is canon though, and it seems to conflict with what that wiki says the Jedi Order was like before the restructuring, I'm pondering how I ought to make my setting.

Everything points at the NSW not being a period of total war, so most of the galaxy can be going on as usual, with only the jedi and probably the Republic military (since they were likely involved) concerned with the battling. And since the wiki says the Jedi Order was a lot looser than it became later, this would make being a player character jedi fun, since there would be more to it than "go on this mission." I... er... Think. Right?

 

Everything points at the NSW not being a period of total war, so most of the galaxy can be going on as usual, with only the jedi and probably the Republic military (since they were likely involved) concerned with the battling. And since the wiki says the Jedi Order was a lot looser than it became later, this would make being a player character jedi fun, since there would be more to it than "go on this mission." I... er... Think. Right?

That wiki estimation isn't entirely correct (the "period of total war" bit), since most of the sourcebooks and other material all point to that 2000-1000 BSW4 span as being an almost *perpetual* era of warfare, which comes to a cataclysmic head with Ruusan and the Republic's near-destruction.

There were wide-open Sith and Dark Jedi enclaves all over the galaxy, and it seems that their recruiting swelled their ranks to levels not seen since the Tales of the Jedi years. The Jedi Order was indeed slightly "looser," but this is of course why they pucker up tighter'n a snare drum in the prequel years...they were TOO fast-and-loose with their policies in Darth Bane's time.

 

I imagine you'll also be seeing a bit of fleshing out of the New Sith Wars in the New Essential Chronology, due out this fall.

 

Okay, I just read the comics, and I really understand what you mean about the "dark age" bit. Egads...

So if I were to make the setting just as the New Sith Wars had began, so about 900 years before the Jedi vs Sith comics took place, would any Star Wars zealots get upset with me for making the tech level somewhat more advanced than what is shown in Knights of the Old Republic, with a somewhat established Jedi Order (much like the one displayed in KOTOR, complete with the only slight controls over the actions of the jedi)?

Aside from that, can anybody summarize the stuff found about the meat of the wars (the end isn't as interesting) for me? That's a lot of stuff to go find, and I assume that its primary focus isn't on the time period I'm interested in.

Thanks for helping me out, by the way.

 

Are there any pictures of this battle armor? I'd assume in some comics and on book covers, but which ones?

[image=http://www.wizards.com/starwars/images/starwars/Jedi_armor_ancient.jpg]

[image=http://www.wizards.com/starwars/images/starwars/Jedi_armor_modern.jpg]

It's based on the armour Lord Hoth, Lord Farfalla and Kiel Charny wear on Ruusan, so that's the primary source. Take a gander at Jedi vs. Sith.

(Kiel's is a bit poofy though - moulded pecs - kinda like Clooney's Batman...)

There's nothing to indicate that any of the technology used in the New Sith Wars is less advanced than that of 2,000 years prior. If anything, its likely to be more advanced. It looks grity and primitive though, most likely due to the fact that a thousand years of war has caused massive resource shortage as well as a philosophy of "form over function".

"Pretty" clothes are for times of peace.

Although the "Dark Ages" moniker might be apt, but not in the way people imagine. The period 400-1000 AD wasn't as much a technological stasis as people believe. Instead, there was advancement, but mostly in the realm of warfare: ie, invention of the stirrup, the rise of cavalry over infantry...

That wiki estimation isn't entirely correct (the "period of total war" bit), since most of the sourcebooks and other material all point to that 2000-1000 BSW4 span as being an almost *perpetual* era of warfare, which comes to a cataclysmic head with Ruusan and the Republic's near-destruction.

Steady on Leto, old boy! I wrote than entry on the wiki, and I specifically state:

"The New Sith Wars is the name given to the thousand years of conflict between the Jedi and the Sith which lasted from 2,000 to 1,000 BBY."

Isn't that clearly stating a thousand years of war?

If you think its unclear, fix it mate!




A link after the link you gave me mentioned the Jedi disbanding their armies and abandoning their battle armor

That's after Ruusan.

Once they believe the Sith exterminated, the Jedi believe its time to stop pretending to be soldiers, and go back to the philosopher, pacifist monks they believe they started as.

Before that, they are more heavily armed than even in the KOTOR days. Hell, you have Sith Lords talking convential battle tactics and the Jedi seem to be running the Republic military themselves (ie, no civilian commanders to be seen, only non-force users seem to be ordinary grunts).

... and some link-following also indicates that they did not have a temple on Coruscant until after this time.

The temple is there during the KOTOR time period, but wasn't as big as it is by TPM. Basically, like all good bureaucracies, there is a gradual trend of centralisation.

What would I want to do if I wanted to make a setting for a pen and paper roleplaying game set in this era?

Good idea! This is what i did about a year ago, and what spiked my interest in the era. I'm glad they are finally exploring it more, as in my opinion it is a far more interesting (and relevant) time period than 4,000 BBY.

 

That was only a single comic, goofily drawn at that. Lets not read too deeply into its art.

 

That was only a single comic, goofily drawn at that. Lets not read too deeply into its art.

Thanks for yet another pointless and inane comment.

 

Your continual resistance is not conducive to obediance. Must you make this so enjoyable?

 

Excellence likes to make snide opinion-filled comments that come off as statements of facts and inevitably provoke a response from a user with a different opinion who then confronts him.

In response Excellence usually just throws out some random, goofy "You have offended me, sir!" type comment, to avoid getting into an actual debate on the subject while also avoiding having to slink away with his tail between his legs...

...It's kind of clever actually, in an annoying sort of way.

Oh, and if the initial response of the provoked user is strongly worded enough, Excellence will probably throw an insult or two into that bit where he throws out the random goofy comment.

At this point I just try to find the humor in the whole thing when our opinions differ and let it go... If you can do that "Excellence-Class Posts" are still worth reading .

 

*pulls out his notepad and pencil*

Okay, so for 1900 years BBY, I'm probably looking at:
*Established conflict with the Sith.
----Jedi in leadership roles in Republic military (commanders, commados, shock troops [they did fight on the front lines]).
----Toned down American World War II mentality on most planets (recruitment drives, war bonds, and overtime shifts at the weapons factories).
*More advanced technology than KOTOR, still pretty looking stuff.
*Jedi still in transition into their totally warrior role.
----Armor/robes like Darth Revan in KOTOR, unlike the pure robes of before, and pure armor of JvS.
----Still concern over more than getting onto the battlefield and stomping the Sith.
*Sith actually in control of planets, and openly recruiting (both Jedi and non-Force?).
----The stormtroopers ride again!
*Those huge guys that Tomcat kills one of, thinking he's a Sith lord.
----I'm sorry; they just look cool.

Am I missing anything? Am I getting anything wrong?

 

No! Don't abandon me!

 

To be honest, I think eu publishers didn't want to be too hasty to write alot of details concerning that time period because they feared Lucas would contradict something they wrote in one of the movies.

I believe after episode III that they will start writing comics that explain the second Sith War in greater detail.

 

CDFT, you could say this Bane book was a long time coming, mayhaps even preplanned. His first mention was in TPM, during a Sidious musing. It either came from Lucas, a throwaway historical backhistory that he had to include, or he did that himself. After Brooks' naked plagiarism of LOTR I don't know how well he can develop original ideas of his own.

As a matter of fact, CDFT, I believe it was the director's idea. His TOTJ backstory aside approved, it's his rodeo and he'll use the Sith origin his way. There are milleniums of available history to slip whatever in.

Guys . . . look. You chose the blue pill, so just accept wonderland as best you can. The red wasn't to your liking, I respect that decision. Sinrebirth, you make we sound like its a bad taste.

 

Was it actually Republic(jedi) versus Sith or simply Jedi versus Sith? and was there actually a standing army of jedi and sith? that would be nice to see. instead of droids versus clones. any vechiles known near or like at-at's or at-st's?

 

I'm actually starting to work on an RPG campaign set in this era, as well (probably towards the end, in the years/decades leading up to Ruusan).

My intent is to do some Jedi-centric Star Wars with the Akira Kurosawa influence dialed up to 11; the opening adventure is going to be a very thinly veiled ripoff of The Seven Samurai. Towards that end, I've done some boning up on feudal Japan, and that's informed a lot of the decisions I've made regarding this era of SW history. A number of discussions here have also influenced my choices.

The basic premise I'm working from is this: after nearly a thousand years of heavy fighting, the Republic barely exists at all; it has a solid presence on Coruscant and throughout most of the core worlds, but much farther out than that it has approximately zero influence. The Republic military is greatly diminished, and is capable of holding a solid defensive perimeter around the Core, but that's pretty much it. A lot of sectors and systems have been left on their own, adopting widely varied forms of government. Some are still loyal/sympathetic to the Republic, while some are controlled by power-hungry types who are happy to be independent of the Republic's influence. Many of the independent or loyalist systems are home to Jedi enclaves, which afford those systems a certain measure of safety and security. Some such enclaves have risen up around particularly powerful or charismatic Jedi 'lords'. The Jedi are very decentralized at this point, and probably divided by all kinds of philosophical disputes--one Jedi faction might be very PT-era in their outlook (no marriage, no attachments, one master : one apprentice, train from birth) while another might have a much more TOTJ-era style (marriage/attachments permitted, one master : many apprentices, training starting significantly later than birth)--with all possible variations in between to be found. Outside of the larger enclaves, you have a great many wandering 'masterless' Jedi who--either by choice or as a result of circumstance--simply move about the galaxy, sometimes struggling merely to survive while trying their best to preserve peace and justice according to their own lights.

Of course, many more systems are wholly dominated by the Sith--not a single, unified front, but any one of a wide array of Sith factions. The Sith spend as much time squabbling amongst themselves looking to increase their power/territory/influence as they do fighting the Jedi.

And so the galaxy is chaotic and fragmented, and the situation appears to be this: whichever side--Jedi or Sith--that can first come together and present a united front will control the galaxy's destiny for, I don't know, the next thousand years.

(What happens, of course, is that both sides DO pull together--the Army of Light under Hoth, and the Brotherhood of Darkness under Kaan--and finally fight it out. But that has yet to happen in my little game-world here.)

So that's how I'm doing it. I guess we'll see how well my guesses turn out when this Bane book comes to pass.

 

That sounds neat.

So does anybody have any reflection on the potential reaction to my idea for the setting? Though I'm tossing around in my head the idea of setting it around five-hundred years AFTER Rusaan, so we can have the Jedi Order we all know and... Know. The only problem is, if the players are jedi (I'll have rules for non-force users too, but the party will be either all-jedi or have none), and there are only two Sith, well that's no fun...

*sigh* Decisions, decisions.

 

I had fun doing a campaign that went from twenty-five years before Ruusan to twenty-five years after.

Kinda interesting have the players dealing with the changes the galaxy and the Jedi went through.

 

CDFT, there should be a bit mroe information on the New Sith Wars sprinkled throughout the Dark Forces Saga articles appearing at Wizards.com over the next few weeks.

Best,
Abel