Lit How much of a rival was Xixor?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by FTeik, Oct 9, 2013.

  1. FTeik Force Ghost

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    Having gotten and read the SOTE-sourcebook recently, I started remembering reading the novel to the SOTE-project, as well as my impression of Xixor, who - while a credible threat as the GFFA-equivalent of a Mafia-Don - somehow fails as a villain, since he appears to be a self-absorbed, narcisstic windbag with delusions of grandeur.
    He believes himself to be superior to mammalian species (mostly humans), thinks no woman can withstand his pheromones and somehow suffers from the idea he'd be an equal and credible threat to Darth Vader and a better prime henchman for the Emperor.

    But how much of that could the Falleen-prince back up? If we go with SOTE, not much, but as the villain he is fated to loose in the end. So how credible as a threat to Vader or other imperial / galactic VIPs is Xixor really in the years before?
  2. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    I can buy him being a threat to Imperials, sure. Look at Scoundrels and the kind of influence lower level Black Sun flunkies could potentially wield. They were probably far more important when it comes to corruption and graft than anything else. Of course, it depends on what qualifies as an Imperial VIP: I can see Black Sun being enough to even have influence over some petty moffs (after all, consider how the moff of the Tapani sector often had less influence at the Imperial Court than the Mecetti and Melantha overlords).

    So Xizor would have considerable influence as a court player and a star of Coruscant high society (indeed, he's part owner of the Manarai, that's no small thing) as well as behind the scenes influence in terms of blackmail or funding/supporting rivals.

    Enough influence to control a member of the Imperial Ruling Council? Most likely not -- but I wouldn't be surprised if Xizor had some Privy Councillors in his pocket.
    Last edited by GrandAdmiralJello, Oct 9, 2013
  3. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

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    I think it's important to understand Prince Xizor isn't Space Don Corleone. Prince Xizor is Space Ernst Stavro Blofeld. Just as everything else in Star Wars is enhanced to ridiculous levels, so is the fact that Black Sun isn't a bunch of thugs and criminals. It's the world-threatening, galaxy shaking, ridiculously affluent cartel that James Bond constantly faces.

    In fact, we need a third Jahan Cross TPB with him vs. Prince Xizor.

    So Prince Xizor is probably got resources every bit as large as the Rebellion and holds entire Sectors in the grip of his hand plus his own collection of superweapons. He's also, by the way he's described in the books, probably the 3rd richest man in the galaxy. Certainly, he's more "cash rich" than your typical Corporate Sector Author Prix or Vice Prix.

    Of course, is he a rival for Darth Vader? No. No he's not. The Rule of Two means that Prince Xizor can never be more than a flunkie. I am, however, fully capable of believing Palpatine considered Xizor a convenience and am okay with the idea that Xizor isn't a replacement for VADER but a replacement for TARKIN.
    Last edited by Charlemagne19, Oct 9, 2013
  4. Jedi Ben Chosen One

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    [IMG]
  5. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    We need a third, fourth, fifth, and sixth Jahan Cross TPB, period.
  6. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

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    Another thing to note is, of course, Prince Xizor's inflated opinion of himself is also brought to heel within the context of the book itself. Darth Vader tolerates Prince Xizor because the Emperor finds him useful (probably for eliminating people with plausible deniability, spreading corruption, and so on) right up until the time the latter became an irritant to the Dark Lord(s) plans.

    Then Vader crushed him like an insect.
    Last edited by Charlemagne19, Oct 9, 2013
  7. Jedi Ben Chosen One

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    Ah, Lord Vader, where is Prince Xizor?
    Dead, master.
    How?
    He had an accident.
    Would this accident involve his skyhook drifting into a test barrage from the Executor?
    Yes, Master.
    Fine, there's more where Xizor came from, but don't kill too many of my hamsters.
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  8. FTeik Force Ghost

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    The claim of Xixor being the third-richest person in the galaxy always bothered me. According to the SOTE-sourcebook he is a billionaire (and that with the knowledge of his position as BlackSun-Underlord). Compare that to company-executives like Kuat of Kuat or the Baron Tagge, who spent quintillions of credits just to get a place at the Direx-board of the Corporate Sector or the D'Asta's or the House of Thul, who acquired Industrial Automaton, itself a sponsor of the CSA during the DarkNest-trilogy.

    And if you want Space-Blofeld, you have to look at Palpatine himself. Xixor might be over the top compared to Don Corleone, but he doesn't come up with the insane plots of SPECTRE.
  9. Iron_lord Chosen One

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    I recall in the Lando Calrissian books, Rokur Gepta disguising himself as a famous trillionaire- who was portrayed as having "heard it said that he was the wealthiest human in the known galaxy".


    Wookieepedia suggests "trillionaire" in this context will mean "several hundred trillion credits"- still less than 1/1000 of a quintillion.

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bohhuah_Mutdah

    Quintillions of credits is like quintillions of droids- a figure so large it raises suspicions.
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Oct 9, 2013
  10. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

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    Yes, well, I doubt the "palace that is just a tiny smidge smaller than Emperor Palpatine's own palace" is the sum of Xizor's wealth. He's called a billionaire but I assume that's just this tired old trope.

    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ScifiWritersHaveNoSenseOfScale
    Last edited by Charlemagne19, Oct 9, 2013
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  11. The_Four_Dot_Elipsis Force Ghost

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    It'd help if XTS was more ubiquitous in the GFFA.

    Orman probably exhausted the Tagge finances pursuing his nonsense vendetta, is kaput by the time of SOTE anyway.

    I'd love to get a version of the exchange between Jabba and Xizor from Jabba's perspective, as you could argue that Jabba is probably at the apex of his power at that stage. Maybe.
  12. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

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    It'd help if XTS was more ubiquitous in the GFFA.

    Well for all we know, Black Sun owns Cybot Galactica, Blast-Tech, and so on.

    Amusingly, the biggest thing Black Sun has done in years was under Vigo Maul.

    :D
    Last edited by Charlemagne19, Oct 9, 2013
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  13. Shadow Trooper Jedi Grand Master

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    Oh the irony! First he almost tanks the organization by killing almost all the vigos and their boss Alexi Garyn under Sidiouses orders. Than 10 years later he joins up with them and brings them into a new golden age. I wonder how the other vigos would feel if they knew he almost destroyed the organization the last time he dropped by although I doubt Maul would want to share that little tidbit of information.
  14. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    Yeah, but Black Sun is not Xizor -- we're not talking about the richest organizations in the galaxy, but the richest individuals.

    Also -- it's different if Xizor's wealth is just based on his public face, or including all the kickbacks and the like he gets from his organization.
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  15. Gamiel Force Ghost

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    And then the fans will go mad because the new actor is not blond

    Also it should involve him sleeping with Savan
    [IMG]
  16. BedlamSpirit Jedi Master

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    Certaintly not enough to threaten Vader, though Vader tolerated him because of Palps and Palps played with him because he somehow trolled and or motivated Vader. I remember reading a scene where Xizor humilliated Vader in front of the Emperor (not physically but as in gaining favour) and Vader felt so humilliated that he considered biting his tounge and ending his life. I am sure Palpatine was mostly pleased rather than with Xizor's competence with the tornado of self-destructing emotions he made Vader feel, as a motivation to maximize Vader and as a punishment for his inability to overcome the suit and failure at Mustafar, something the Emperor never forgave and constantly punished him about little by little.
  17. The_Four_Dot_Elipsis Force Ghost

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    And Guri. At once.
  18. Sable_Hart Force Ghost

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    As much of a threat as the Emperor allows him to be. Or Vader, when the Emperor's not looking.
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  19. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

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    Well, Maul took over Black Sun and made it in charge of the Mandalore Sector (apparently, Black Sun is the group doing all the slaving) as per "Last Jedi" by first killing all of the conspicuously Falleen Inner Council. So, it wouldn't surprise me if Xizor knew Maul was responsible for BOTH Black Sun's fall and return to prominence.

    But yes, putting Black Sun in charge of the Mandalore Sector (and it's 2,000 neutral systems) really explains a lot about Xizor's wealth--especially since the PM Maul put in charge was already dealing with Black Sun and other criminals.

    It's why I mentioned "cash rich" versus "rich rich." Xizor owns Black Sun as its Boss because in criminal organizations, you have a far greater control over assets than in a corporation. However, it's unlikely he has quite the same level of affluence that Kuat of Kuat has. Then again, Xizor's wealth seems entirely due to Palpatine's patronage and being the (reigning?) monarch of Falleen. So he has that going for him too.
    Last edited by Charlemagne19, Oct 9, 2013
  20. BedlamSpirit Jedi Master

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    Xizor was to Vader basically more like the annoying troll at work that you have to tolerate because the CEO endorse him.
  21. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

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    I liken it to the fact Vader was a Senator who had to tolerate the obnoxious rich kid whose dad donated massive amounts to the Republican party. Then takes great glee in crushing him once the rich kid decides to talk to terrorists.
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  22. BedlamSpirit Jedi Master

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    Couldn't Palpatine just take the money if he wanted it? I was more under the impression that Palpatine tolerated Xizor more because he wanted Vader to have some rivalry or motivation.
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  23. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

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    I think Black Sun actually was useful to the Empire. It's an additional source of spies, murder, and shadowy influence. So Palpatine indulges Xizor's delusions of importance.

    Tweaking Vader, I suspect, is only part of it.
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  24. The_Four_Dot_Elipsis Force Ghost

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    Palpatine testing Vader after the failure to capture Skywalker makes sense and is pretty much the vibe of SOTE anyway.

    It helps us get around him being kidnapped by a bunch of Masters of Teras Kasi characters for starters.
  25. BedlamSpirit Jedi Master

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    Now that I think about Vader had a massive sense of inferiority regarding his standing with Palpatine, I don't know why. I mean he ****ing thought Laurita Tohm, a just graduate officer without ANY force ability whatsoever could actually challenge his place just based on a quote said by Palpatine, which lmao honestly had zero real weigh.

    If Vader was threatened by this chump, I get why he felt so threatened by Xizor, in fact I am surprised he did not killed Jerec with some excuse, because unlike Xizor and the junior chump Jerec really was a threat that could had potentially toppled him, we know Palpatine tolerated Jerec because he had one of the few qualities Palpatine could admire in someone: a sense of ambition, but Vader? If I was Vader I would had immediately killed him, he was a REAL threat.