Saga How much of the EU do you accept into the films and The Clone Wars?

Agreed, me too. I have watched some episodes of TCW, but I can't get into it too much, and I agree about it being dumb that Anakin has an apprentice. Other than that, my EU experience is as follows: I've read the Dark Lord Trilogy novels: Labyrinth of Evil, Revenge of the Sith, and Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader. They weren't bad, but I have gotten the impression that most other EU novels would be nowhere near as good as them... which pretty much solidified my films-only position.

 

Sort of like those edgy, sophisticated comic book writers who have given us such scenarios as Robin the Boy Wonder being beaten to death with a crowbar, or Green Lantern finding his girlfriend's corpse stuffed in his refrigerator.

Juvenile would be the operative word.

 

Wow. Did that really happen? Just wow.

 

Oh yeah. It was during the 90s, when Marvel and DC first decreed that superhero stories should be geared toward 40 year old men, rather than kids.

Tune in next week, for...The Brutal Rape of Lois Lane! Same Bat-time! Same Bat-channel!

 

On the other hand, Batman is set in a crime-ridden city. You should be expecting such horrors in such a setting.

I'm guessing you're a fan of the 1960s TV show, where the Joker's biggest threat is turning a pool of water into jello.

 

It's already been done in the Killing Joke to Barbara Gordon aka Batgirl, then her father was forced to look at the pictures...

Have to admit, that comic freaked me out, was years before I'd touch anything with the 'Suggested For Mature Readers' tag on it again.

 

And The Killing Joke is also one of the finest Batman comics ever made, for reasons separate from its raunchiness. If it burns the eyes of some readers, so be it. Good storytelling shouldn't be limited by the moral guardians' requirement of butterflies and dewy meadows. And face it, the world is a miserable, filthy place. Fiction should reflect that, not provide an escape from it.

 

Dealing in absolutes are we?

 

I'm sure Star Wars shows some of that. Anyway, I think fiction should provide an escape, we already have the real world to deal with.

 

It's Cormac McCarthy, and The Road is great. And I'm not just saying that because I think all films could use more cannibalism. It's actually a very sentimental film, almost a tear-jerker.

 

Since I don't want to spoil the ending for those who haven't seen it:
it does have a happy ending IMO. Sad in a way, but ultimately very hopeful and positive for one character in particular. It's a very powerful ending in that it finally breaks/resolves the emotional tension built up throughout the entire film.

 

Bottom line: These "mature" storylines should be relegated to graphic novels, not to the monthlies.

It's pretty sad that a responsible parent would feel inclined to read each and every superhero issue before handing it off to their child, as if Action Comics were a bloody Vertigo title.

It's also pretty sad that Bruce Timm, Paul Dini and Co. did a far better job of balancing the innocence and dark undertones to these narratives than the comics bozos who've read Watchmen one too many times and decided to turn the funnybook heroes into neurotics and psychopaths.

 

Watchmen has nothing to do with the other comics. Watchmen is above the rest.

 

Watchmen wasn't intended as a mainstream superhero story, but rather a deconstruction of such. Yet now we're left with two generations of writers who've demonstrated a hankering to ply Moore's approach on these child-friendly heroes. Even Alan Moore himself has lamented the pall his series cast on the medium.

 

So is there a place for a "Star Wars Vertigo" type line of novels & comics, in or outside of continuity?

Personally, I don't think so. What's there in the EU pushes things a bit further now & then, but doesn't tarnish the franchise. Star Wars was never about gritty, dark realism, it was about adventure & excitement. Even ROTS went a fair bit further than I thought it would, IMHO.

Batman, however, was founded on a character who witnessed his parents gunned down in cold blood & vowed to take revenge on all criminals for the rest of his life. Read the earliest Batman comics & they're pretty nasty for their time, it's one of the reasons the Comics Code was brought in to begin with. It's perfectly appropriate for the storyline to eventually give birth to the likes of such classics as 'The Dark Knight Returns', 'The Killing Joke' & 'Arkham Asylum'.

Would I want to see Jedi hunting gang rapists, child molesters & transvestite serial killers, interrogating black-eyed prostitutes & diseased drug dealers along the way? Nope. Nothing to do with being squeamish or prudish, it just doesn't fit. Going too 'gritty' or 'hardcore' with SW would come across as very try-hard and pretentious, & the vast majority of fans would respond very negatively.

Take a look at the response to Frank Miller's 'All-Star Batman & Robin' and its notorious "I'm the goddamn Batman" line. I liked it, but overall it wasn't exactly a success with the fanbase.

 

Yes, that is indeed sad.

 

The DC mini-series 'Kingdom Come' was a reaction to exactly that.

 

I still think "The Goddamn Batman" should be the title of the next film. It's not too late!

 

I accept roughly 50% of the EU - most of which takes place outside of the PT timeframe - though I don't accept every little detail within that 50%.

 

*seethes with uncontrollable rage*

NO! Absolutely not. Not under any circumstances. That is the exact opposite of how things should be. Fiction is not real, so it shouldn't spend its existence aspiring to be real. That's non-fiction's job. Fiction should be something all to its own, separate from reality. It's primary function should be as an escape so that we don't have to constantly deal with the ugliness of the world. Why you would ever think to suggest that we take away our only method of turning away from that ugliness is beyond my comprehension.