Saga How much of the EU do you accept into the films and The Clone Wars?

Simple and rather brutal.

None for the films, as I've always been immuned and largely ignorant about the EU.

I've never watched The Clone Wars (I'm 40 now !).

 

I accept basically anything I like from the EU. I like SOTE, so in go Xizor, Guri, and Jix. I didn't like Dark Empire or TTT so I ignore it.

In discussions I only base my arguments on the film and TCW. Taking the entire EU in would hardly work because of the contradictions in itself and with the films.

Dark isn't mature. Also Star Wars is a fairy tale not a detective noir novel or a social commentary. Not every story fits in.

 

The thing everyone has to understand about The Clone Wars animated series is that George Lucas has had absolutely no involvement on the project whatsoever. Every time you've see an interview with the Bearded One discussing the show that was really just Mickey Suttle (aka SuperShadow) in a George Lucas mask.

If Lucas is going to retcon the history of his fictional universe, then we fans will just retcon the history of our real universe.



Edit: Except Cad Bane, he's real.

 

Once upon a time I used to attempt to accept all as canon. However as The Clone Wars series has progressed I have moved away from that notion, choosing instead to use G-canon sources as my base canon, whilst selecting a few EU sources to supplement it. Furthermore I supplement this with my own fan-stories and opinions; for instance I have my own thoughts of what happened post-ROTJ as I find the majority of that EU era terrible (there are however a few concepts which I maintain).

I accept the following material into my own personal universe in Chronological order (for the better part):

Darth Plagueis (Providing it is of quality)
EPISODE I The Phantom Menace
EPISODE II Attack of the Clones
Republic (Issues: 49 ? 95)
Clone Wars (03?05)
Clone Wars: Gambit
The Clone Wars (08? )
Visionaries (Deep Forest, The Eyes of Revolution, Entrenched)
EPISODE III Revenge of the Sith
Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader
The Force Unleashed
Death Troopers
Death Star
EPISODE IV A New Hope
Splinter of the Minds Eye
EPISODE V The Empire Strikes Back
Shadows of the Empire
EPISODE VI Return of the Jedi
Thrawn Trilogy (Undecided)

I must say I agree with this. Whilst Star Wars is certainly steeped in reality and parallels it greatly, there are certain things which should be removed. Ultimately the entire point of fiction (especially Star Wars) is to provide a fantastical escape from an often stressful real world. I personally have the Star Wars world (which is an escape) and the real world, which is of course, the real world. One of the main reasons why large portions of the EU are disconnected from the films is because it takes in too much of reality... whilst it should relate to the real world it should not be a reflection of the real world.

 

Sorry for the double post, but the post limit ran out...

To add, Star Wars and its success was born out of it being an escape and not a reflect of the direct real world. Whilst it had elements of reality, the film itself provided a reawakening experience in a time where the world was undergoing a significant shift in awareness; it could not have done this if it was a direct reflection of the real world. Star Wars is a modern mythology and fairytale and as such it is a reflection of our morality, creativity and inquisitiveness (inquisitiveness being why so many people enjoy it) provided to us as a source of inspiration and escape.

 

I suggest you not read the novel Batman The Ultimate Evil.... it's about him tracking down NAMBLA people in Thailand and saving children from a life of prostitution.

It does beg the question, however, why are gang rapists, child molesters and transvestite serial killers off limits, but clown themed serial killer psychopaths, and circus freak murdering psychopaths okay? How would a serial rapist be any more hardcore than a serial killer that gets his jollies, literally laughing maniacally all the way, murdering people?

To answer the thread... I accept all of the EU. Even the bits I don't like, because when I started reading the EU the deal was that it all fits and by God, it does.

I disagree. While dark does not equal mature, it can be mature. And yes, the main saga of Star Wars is a sort of fairy tale/heroic myth but even GL is open to other stories and genres being told there. Coruscant Nights is actually a very good example of how you can fit detective noir into Star Wars. Heck, GL attempted the detective noir in AOTC with Obi-Wan's story. AOTC is probably the least mythic of the entire Star Wars Saga.

To whit, detective noir has also been in TCW.

And social commentary is ever present in Star Wars. GL straight out says he wanted to use the Ewoks in ROTJ as a sort of allegory for the Viet Cong versus the American military industrial machine in Vietnam. And then there's the whole thing about corporations being behind the downfall of the Republic and corruption in the Senate. The implied speciesism of the Empire in the OT, and the outright speciesism of the Empire in the EU, is social commentary as well.

 

Except for the fact that the protagonist only does any "detective work" in the second book.

 

As you are all aware, the official canon system used by the Holocron is broken into various tiers, higher levels of which supersede lower ones. They are listed as follows:

G-canon (George Lucas Canon)

T-canon (Television Canon)

C-canon (Continuity Canon)

S-canon (Secondary Canon)

N-canon (Non-Canon)


My approach to the matter is similar, but with slightly different categories and ordering...

O-canon (Ostrander canon): The highest level of canon, it includes everything written by John Ostrander

ANH-canon (A New Hope canon): The special edition of A New Hope, but Han shoots first

KotOR-canon (Knights of the Old Republic canon): Mostly includes the light-side male choices for Revan and the Exile in both games, with a few Dark Side choices thrown in, as well as whatever my characters do in The Old Republic.

TFU-canon (The Force Unleashed canon): Includes both Force Unleashed games

TotJ-canon (Tales of the Jedi canon): Includes every issue of Tales of the Jedi

SW-canon (Star Wars canon): Includes Episodes I, II, III, V, and VI, minus Jar Jar Binks, Ewoks, the Space Slug, and Leia's white dress not getting completely wet in the trash compactor

TCW-canon (The Clone Wars canon): This includes anything cool that happens on the show (Mostly Cad Bane and the clones), but ignores the existence of Ahsoka Tano.

L-canon (Leia canon): Includes Leia, by Vladimir Nabokov, being the private confession of Bail Organa of the amorous attraction and eventual affair he had with his adopted daughter Leia during her pubescent years.

DH-canon (Dark Horse canon): This includes some other comics published by Dark Horse, such as Knights of the Old Republic and Old Wounds.

DF/JK-canon (Dark Forces/Jedi Knight canon): Includes Dark Forces, Jedi Knight, Mysteries of the Sith, Jedi Outcast, and Jedi Academy (blond male light-side Jaden).

N-canon (Novel canon / Non-canon): Everything else, including the Del Rey novels, the Dark Empire comic series, and most of what spews out of Lucas' mouth these days.

 

So... you accept what you like & disregard what you don't, unless it's a fixed, unchanged, indisputable part of one of the films.

I think you'll find that's the same approach most take. I know I do.

 

Only CN 1 worked somewhat as a detective story for me. The TCW-episode was cute, but as a detectibe story it wasn't very interesting. Detective noir? It isn't even close. Star Wars is far too politically correct to support "noir". Where's the sex and the brutality?

Yes, allegories. And that's the problem. Allegories will never be as powerful as the real thing. If you want to show the horrors of Vietnam - you show the horrors of Vietnam. Also I don't see room for films like "Platoon" in SW. Again, Star Wars is too pc.

 

No, I meant that such twisted, dark visions are acceptable in the Batman franchise, just not SW. Batman's been around for 72 years, & started off as gritty & dark as it could have for a comic book - of course it's going to deal with extremes in this day & age, & does. I think the negative response to 'All-Star Batman & Robin' had more to do with its approach to the character of Batman, not the subject matter.

 

It shows violence in a very unaesthetic, unpleasing way. I particulary like it because of it raw bluntness which reflects war. Most war movies, even the critical ones, glorify war.

If the politics were more realistic I would agree. As they are they're okay but I doubt they would work as the focus of a longer story. It is a universe in which fourteen year olds are ellected queen and speeches of Jar-Jar binks can sway the entire senate.

 

You have a way with words, Darth_Pevra.

 

Not necessarily. If John Ostrander were to write a comic showing Yoda being born to Padme, revealing that he was Luke's twin brother and the second Skywalker all along, then that would invalidate all of his appearances in the Clone Wars and the Prequels, and override anything Lucas might have said concerning the little green guy.

For me, Ostrander's word is absolute canon (followed in order of truthiness by the rest of my list).

 

I despise EU. Dont get me wrong, there are some really talented writers and artists involved in it and there are some well written books and stories, but I just completely dislike the outlandish ideas in EU, events, resurections of the characters, additions etc. Basically everything. I dislike and reject all of EU. About the only EU I like is Tarkovsky's Clone Wars

 

Which includes some pretty outlandish stuff.

I disagree with your reasoning, but I can accept that some people think that way. I just think it's a bit close-minded to reject ALL of the EU (or, 99.9% of it) based on such reasons. Hardly all of the EU is like that. Some of it? Yes, and I avoid a lot of EU sources myself for those reasons. But there are also many very-well grounded-in-movie-canon EU works that do a great job expanding upon what we see in the movies.

 

Tarkovsky's CW was epic!!! Much better than the new Clone Wars. Tarkovsky's series actually showed some pretty significant events in the Saga such as Anakin's knighting, Palpatine's abduction, Grievous's intro, 3P0 going gold, etc. I don't really think Ventress is that important though.

As for the EU that I do not accept:

A. Palpatine returning after ROTJ

B. Ahsoka Tano

 

On the contrary. Genndy's series is full of Mary Sues and over-the-top action. Not to mention the annoying monotone voice acting and character interaction.

It has some good chapters, however.

 

That's just the man's style. I personally like his adaptation of TCW much more than the new adaptation. If you've seen Samurai Jack, the style is very similar. That being said, I do still find his Clone Wars series to be MUCH more relevant to the saga as a whole than the new series.

 

Well yeah, but I dont believe in selective criticism, so I either accept all of EU or not at all. Its a simple yes or no whether I accept EU as canon. I think its very unfair to say and pick what I accept or no, so I dont accept EU as canon at all

 

I feel that fiction should be both an escape and reflect the reality of our world.

But Star wars should go over the deep end.

If you guys have noticed, we go from one damn extreme to another. From the Bantam happy, sunshine filled goofiness to the depressing, grim, sad, unhappy post NJO, DNT, LOTF and FOTJ.

Star wars can do both well. The escape is great (Episodes I-VI) the darkness can be well done. (The New Jedi Order)

its just finding the balance. Which has not been seen from Del Ray unless in some small instances. Lets hope Revan and Plageis can turn that around.

Now. I accept all of star wars, but i only truly care for the films, the tv shows and the greatest works of the EU. I find that i have forgotten of much of the EU works i have read. With good reason. I never want to read Rogue Planet again.

 

I don't use any EU at all. I just accept that most of the Clone Wars happens off-screen, and that it was mostly a bunch of meaningless engagements between Clones and droids, where Jedi happened to die here and there. After all, that was the point of the Clone Wars - a meaningless, useless where to seperate and thin out the Jedi ranks.

 

I think you guys are looking at it in a pretty black vs. white way. Fiction and escapism are not synonymous. There is room for both escapist fiction and realistic fiction. I love both types of stories, as well as non-fiction. The story-telling world needs all of these.

 

There's already plenty of dark and even gruesome stuff in Star Wars:

Genocide (twice)
Various dismemberments, cutting in half and decapitation
Charred bodies of the hero's foster parents
Torture of the female prisoner
Burning alive (onscreen!)
Children murdered (by the protagonist!)
Father cutting his son's hand
Death in childbirth
Various forms of slavery (children, the whole armies, and even droids)
Sexploitation (Jabba's slave girls)
Hero's mother tortured to death
Drugs - pardon me, deathsticks
Almost incest (ok, that probably wasn't intentional)
Husband choking his pregnant wife

Add to that underlying Freudian issues, corrupt politicians, totalitarian regime, betrayal of your comrades in arms, even implied rape and suicidal intent... Granted, a lot is only implied, but if you stop and think about it, despite a feeling of hope and good triumphing over evel, Star Wars may be even darker than most non R-rated SF/Fantasy franchises. Art doesn't have to be dark and gritty to be relevant to the real life.