how much sidious master plan change?

how much was altered for the events that even him can see?like the dead of darth maul.

 

I don't get your question. Could you ask it a little more clearly?

 

If you look really closely at the films his plans were'nt altered that much at all.He always had some sort of back up.Example.Maul dies dooku takes his place.Maybe the only time was on the invisible hand when it was crash landing.Look at his expresions beforehand.Sidious is the master planner.

 

i think when Queen Amidala went back to her home planet from Coruscant.....i think Palps was taken aback by this, but it didnt really matter becasue he got what he wanted in the end anyway, and that's becoming the chancellor

 

Well it had to have changed a bit.
I don't think he planned on the Jedi killing Maul off.
But Maul clearly could not have started the COIS like Count Dooku.
I guess we'll never know.

 

was his dooku his first option as the leader of the separatist?

 

- The Jedi escaping Naboo with the Queen
- The Jedi stumbling upon a possible "Chosen One"
- The Queen deciding to go back to Naboo
- The Queen and the Gungans deciding to fight back
- Anakin blowing up the Trade Federation Control Ship
- Obi-Wan killing Darth Maul
- The Neimodians being caught
- The failed assassination attempts on Senator Amidala
- Anakin carrying Obi-Wan on his shoulders instead of leaving him behind
- Splitting of the Invisible Hand
- Mace Windu kicking him in his face
- Yoda escaping into exhile
- Obi-Wan cutting up Darth Vader
- Padme giving birth to Skywalker twins
- The Rebels getting a hand on the Death Star plans
- Obi-Wan introducing Luke to the force
- Luke blowing up the Death Star
- Luke bringing back the conflict within Vader
- Luke and Anakin having a connection that Palpatine cannot sense
- Ewoks
- Anakin fulfilling the prophecy

Of course he had a back-up plan for nearly all of these events, but they weren't initially a part of his master plan.

- O_F

 

Well, I think that once Dooku came to him Palpatine realized his potential as a politico magnet for the COIS.

 

ObiFranz, why would you want to go and shatter the delusion that so many cling to?

 

Obi-Frans, How could Ewoks interfere with the almighty EMPORER!
and You know that Palpy knew that if Ani miraculosly fulfilled the prophecy that he would be killed right!

 

Actually, Palpatine's original TPM-era master plan was MUCH different than the one he ended up with. The jedi's interference causes a great deal of trouble for him, but luckily he is able to make improvisations that actually improve upon his original scheme.

This was his original plot, as far as i can figure it out:

Palpatine contacts the Trade Federation as Lord Sidious and offers them a deal. The Trade Federation will blockade the peaceful planet of Naboo due to trade route disputes, followed by a legalized invasion. The invasion will secure the Trade Federation as a recognized force in the galaxy, and their occupation of the planet of Naboo can be used as a means of production to increase their industrial might. Because this plan would result in Palpatine being elected Supreme Chancellor, the Trade Federation would also be granted political immunity, and hold great power in the Senate.

As the Trade Federation invades, the people are put into camps, and a genocide begins; the Queen meanwhile has been forced to sign a treaty which legitimizes the invasion. Following this, she is executed.

The representative of Naboo, Senator Palpatine, has meanwhile managed to escape the whole incident due to his senatorial duties on Coruscant (how convienient!). He uses the invasion of his planet as an example of the ineffectiveness of Chancellor Vallorum. I can just hear his plea to the Senate: My beloved queen has been taken hostage and executed, and my people have been enslaved in camps! With my poor queen assassinated, i remain as the sole representative and last free survivor of Naboo. The Trade Federation's army is unstoppable! How many more star systems will fall to the Federation as my own has before we do something about it? I suggest a vote of No Confidence in the Chancellor's leadership."

Indeed, the threat of the Trade Federation is a serious one, and with Naboo secure, they could be using it to solidify their army and expand their resources. Palpatine uses the dire situation of Naboo's invasion as a springboard to vote out Vallorum and use the sympathy of the Senate to vote himself in place.

Meanwhile, the Trade Federation was supposed to start a never-ending war--they would continue to invade and gain resources and expand while Chancellor Palpatine usurped power for himself. Likely, his plans were to persuade the jedi to fight the army, thus diminishing their numbers, which was what his plans seemed to be in AOTC--"please, jedi, this army will soon take over the republic! You are our only hope! I understand you want a peaceful resolution and so do I--this is the only way. If we stop the Federation before it takes over the galaxy, we can restore peace and I will return my Emergency Powers."

The jedi reluctantly agree, and a reluctant war is begun, with the jedi leading a hastily-put together Republic army, mostly of volunteers, while the Republic begins building up military measures for the war. Once Palpatine has manipulated things to where he wants them, and the jedi have been significantly reduced, he puts forth his Empire plan, unleashes his Apprentice Maul to dispatch the rest of the jedi and then he gains control of the Trade Federation and the unstoppable droid army for himself, solidifying his position as all-powerful sith Emperor of the galaxy. Maul of course would take on the enforcer role that Vader eventually did.

This is V1.0 of his Master Plan--the jedi involvement forced Palpatine to make on-the-fly adjustments, and in the end, his revised plan--which would be at least V5.0 it seems, with all the setbacks he suffered--was actually far more effective than his original one.

 

I wouldn't be all that suprised if the entire bit with anakin wasn't just dumb luck, I mean, the whole speech about plagus, and the bit about creating life, could just be palpatine being the manipulative old man we know so well.. and anakin, was just a bonus


I know, I know, he foresaw everything, but it seems like he's just a good manipulator really, and some of his aledged foresight, might be exagerated

 

His plan changed probably quite a bit from its original inception. If he was powerful enough to know about Anakin why not just pluck him off Tattoine while he is very young? Not to mention his eventual death at Darth Vador hands.

Several of his reactions also provide clues that he his revamping his plan on the fly.

 

Nope, this was his plan... for them 2 to fall in love on w/e planet and then have anakin watch her begin to die and him begin to slip

 

I think that most of the events in the Phantom Menace went according to some already devised plan, because, as we saw in RotS, he created Anakin, so he had to have known about him. He knew what he was capable of, and probably meditated specifically on what role he would play in the future. He also needed him to be raised for part of his life outside the Jedi Temple walls, so that he developed attachments that would lead him to the dark side, and possessed loyalties to not only Jedi. He couldn't have raised Anakin himself, because then Anakin wouldn't have been able to eventually destroy the Jedi Order from the inside (He knew the codes to the temple, and the Jedi in the temple didn't fight him when they first saw him because he had been their alley. It would have taken them a few seconds to figure out he wasn't any more at first, a moment's hesitation that most likely proved deadly in many cases).

Sidious ended up being able to predict Anakin pretty well, but his weakness was his arrogance in thinking that he could completely control any autonomous human being, his creation or not. He could predict human weaknesses, which Anakin had plenty of, and he encouraged those weaknesses in him, but what he didn't count on were his connections to other people--friendship and love (awww). Love was one part of human nature he couldn't understand, so he underestimated it, and that's why he was arrogant enough to think that Anakin wouldn't fulfill the prophesy.

On a different note, I don't believe he predicted the future as accurately in general as he did concerning Anakin. I'm sure he had to improvise to manipulate various less significant happenings into falling in line with his ultimate plan for the galaxy, but the reason he seems to be able to predict things in the movies so accurately is most likely because he spends so much of his energy manipulating Anakin, who is the one the fate of the galaxy ultimately rests on. Since he put a lot of effort into knowing how to manipulate him into doing what he wants, he was probably able to predict his actions accurately both with and without Force induced clairvoyance.

 

Since when did it ever say that Sidious created Anakin?

 

That is a theory going around that he created Anakin from mitaclorins.

 

Pretty much nothing altered until Luke didnt join him and Vader killed him.Thats my guess.

 

^ for the most part you are correct. The overall plan did not change (gain control of the senate, intiate a galactic war, overthrow the republic and establish an empire) but the particulars did change (death of maul, liberation of Naboo, discovery of Anakin, Obi-Wan discovery of a clone army, etc).

 

I agree with D_Tiberion, the grand plan hasn't changed, just the particulars. Sidious adapted to the many things that changed from his "grand plan",i.e., Amidala's success on Naboo, death of Darth Maul, etc. This concept underscores one of the themes of the PT which is adapt or die. Sidious was a great manipulator, but he also excelled at adapting to the small obstacles he encountered on the way to the creation of his empire. The Jedi, on the other hand, were resistant to change and were slaves to their Jedi Code. They didn't adapt and they died.