main
side
curve
  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

How Obi-Wan failed Anakin and everyone else.

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by zeekveerko, May 25, 2005.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. zeekveerko

    zeekveerko Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 30, 2002
    I never really liked Obi-Wan as a kid, watching the old movies. Sure I believed him as a character, but I personally didn't like him. Now I've put it all together and figured out why: He represents the downfall of the Jedi Order. His death even paved the way for Luke to bring back Anakin.

    In the phantom menace he made light of serious situations and abhorred getting involved with "lesser" creatures, or "pathetic lifeforms" as he affectionately referred to them, such as Jar Jar and the little slave boy. Young and reckless, and not fully aware in the force, he should never have been trusted with the responsibility of raising Anakin, who was already considered to be too dangerous to train due to his dark history and immense power. This task should have been taken care of by somebody wiser, not a sarcastic hotshot trying to prove himself. Of course Qui-gon was the clear choice, but in light of his death Anakin was hastily put in the care of Obi-wan.

    In Attack of the Clones we now see how wrong this decision has been. Anakin walks all over his poor master, who can't decide whether to reprimand him or encourage him. He's all over the place. The elder masters are far too caught up in the shady events taking place to notice just how bad Anakin is getting. Anakin should never have been left alone with Padme, but of course a group of celibate monks would know nothing about the power of lust. Obi-Wan proves to be less of a voice in the council than an errand boy. He can't even convince Yoda and Mace that Anakin needs constant supervision. I can't believe the Jedi lacked the foresight to return to Tatooine and pay for the release of Anakin's mom so this dangerous boy full of emotional turmoil would still have his anchor.

    Three years later Anakin is a powerful, respected Jedi Knight, ego the size of a Super Star Destroyer. He still looks up to his Master, but Obi-Wan is still trying hard to win him over, furthering Anakin's ego. He's better than his master. He had to carry him out of the room after killing Dooku while Obi-Wan lay unconscious. These are all minor failings compared to the big whopper at the end. There was good in him. Luke proved it, and Padme, given the chance, could have pulled him back into the light. Though he loved her, he was overwhelmed with conflicting emotions and the last thing he needed was for Obi-Wan to come out of Padme's ship, and already resolved to kill him. In his mind Anakin had already lost his second anchor, and his turn was complete. If only Obi-Wan had stayed on that ship, or never even boarded it, Anakin could have been saved by Padme. The remaining Jedi could have set up a final confrontation with the one remaining Sith.

    Obi-Wan was left in the charge of watching over Luke, and teaching him about the force. When It came time to actually do this, he told lies about his father, afraid of strong emotions becoming Luke's downfall as they were with his father. Luke, however, understood the value of family and sacrifice. Had he known Vader was his father he would not have pursued him as fiercely as he did in Empire. He could have dealt with the emotions first, and possibly have pulled him back sooner.

    Of course we can't blame Obi-Wan entirely, as he is a product of the Jedi council, and characterizes the entire Jedi Order in its peak and subsequent fall. As stated before, his death represented the end of the old way of the Jedi, and brought in that of the New Jedi order, that which knew its place in the galaxy, and was able to become one with it.
     
    Ezon Pin likes this.
  2. Lars_Muul

    Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 2, 2000
    If only Obi-Wan had stayed on that ship, or never even boarded it, Anakin could have been saved by Padme.

    I strongly disagree. Anakin had turned to the dark side and I don't believe Padmé could've done anything to bring him back, unless he was seriously wounded and she was made to suffer at the hands of the Emperor.



    Darth Vader is mean
    /LM
     
  3. Sith-Bendu

    Sith-Bendu Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2004
    ^^ I agree.

    Anakin was already starting to feel like Padme had turned against him before Obi-Wan ever got off the ship (his line "Don't you turn against me, too").

    I got the impression that Obi-Wan was in fact giving Padme a chance - why wouldn't he have just rushed off the ship as soon as they landed, were that not the case?

    As for Obi-Wan and the saga as a whole, I feel like he was actually one of the few jedi to actually "get it". He knew Anakin's shortcomings - his fear, arrogance, etc - which he made light of to the council. However, he was hamstrung by the ways of the Jedi, unable to do much about it. I think Obi-Wan simply places a lot of the blame on himself, being the responsible / upright person that he was. He was responsible for Anakin's training & Anakin failed, ergo, in his mind he was ultimately responsible. I can be debated for years whether that was in fact the case - I feel it wasn't. Anakin's (poor) choices & the dogma of the Jedi were far more responsible for the situation than anything Obi-Wan did...

    IMO.
     
  4. Iblis

    Iblis Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    May 8, 2005
    Here's a hint:
    "I'm so sorry."
     
  5. TaintedJedi

    TaintedJedi Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 2, 2004
    ((raising Anakin... due to his dark history and immense power))

    He was a slave boy from Tatooine with a high midi count who was older then most of the other younglings... where's this 'dark history'?

    ((Anakin was hastily put in the care of Obi-wan.))

    Umm... he was heeding the wish of his dying master, and only did so with the (eventual?) permission of the council.

    ((He can't even convince Yoda and Mace that Anakin needs constant supervision.))

    How is it Obi-Wan's fault that the council is blind?

    ((I can't believe the Jedi lacked the foresight to return to Tatooine and pay for the release of Anakin's mom so this dangerous boy full of emotional turmoil would still have his anchor.))

    While I agree that this would have helped Anakin, listen to what the council is saying. Jedi are meant to give up closeness to loved ones. The other younglings dont go crash with ma back on the farm... why treat Anakin, who's already 'special', any more differently?

    (( and already resolved to kill him.))

    He slaughtered little kids. I think Obi-Wan might be justified in confronting him... Anakin betrayed Obi Wan. He turned away everything he and Obi Wan held dear for the anathema of the Jedi code... he wanted power.

    (( Obi-Wan was left in the charge of watching over Luke, and .. told lies about his father))

    Obi Wan did not lie. The good part of Anakin was destroyed by the lost, scared little boy who became a twisted monstrosity.

    ((Had he known Vader was his father he would not have pursued him as fiercely as he did in Empire.))

    Oh, right... so my dad isn't dead? Naw, don't care. Nope. Not at all. I'll just go along, fly down this trench and try and blow up the Death Star while he shoots at me... =p

    Honestly, I think it would have been much worse. Luke would have been *determined* to find his father... and that would have had devestating effects on the rebellion. Do you think he would have gone dumpster diving while Obi-Wan went to fight his dad? Or that he would have listened and ran after seeing pop slice up Old Ben? Imagine if instead, he gave into fear--anger--hate and charged Vader... only to either be:

    A.) Gunned down by all the Stormtroopers (most likely)
    B.) Killed by Vader (great, no balance to the force)
    C.) Captured and turned (you think RoTS was bad? *shudders*)
    -TJ
     
  6. The_Little_Red_Jedi

    The_Little_Red_Jedi Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2004
    Perhaps, but for me Obi-Wan and Yoda pretty much represent everything truly good about the Jedi order.

    Sure, they have their flaws, but they are overwhelmingly good. Luke, Anakin and to a lesser extentt Qui-Gon represent the more 'human' aspect. That is, emotionally fuelled, if you take my meaning.
     
  7. BC_Eagles_67

    BC_Eagles_67 Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 13, 2005
    I can understand your points but Obi-Wan did try his best with what he was given. Obi-Wan was handed what equates to Jesus in space that task alone is daunting. If anyone is to blame however it's the entire council as they were the group that agreed to let Obi-Wan train Anakin. Yoda is the only one that is not at fault.. he didn't agree with the idea! :)
     
  8. KennyT

    KennyT Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 25, 2005
    He did fail Anakin as his mentor... and friend. Anakin went to ObiWan often with his troubles and problems, yet all ObiWan could do was offer pathetic worn lines of jedi training. When ObiWan needed a friend, ObiWan was not there. When Anakin needed a teacher, he got scripted lines. ObiWan failed Anakin in many ways.
     
  9. whiteeagle

    whiteeagle Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 24, 2004
    it seems to me he went to the chancellor about his problems more than obi wan. anakin's problem was he didn't trust obiwan, but he sure trusted the chancellor. also obiwan for most of his life he was a straight laced jedi who didn't go out of the council's orders, he frequently went against his master quigon as you remember. only till revenge of the sith did he start to ease up.
     
  10. BC_Eagles_67

    BC_Eagles_67 Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 13, 2005
    ^^^^

    It's always easier to blame your teacher/parent/boss than it is anyone else in this world.. Palpy was a great "friend" to Anakin and told Anakin what he wanted to hear... this happens all the time in the real world and it's easy to see why Anakin didn't trust Obi-Wan. Remember Obi-Wan did take blame for Anakins fall.. he knew what he did wrong which makes their brother type friendship all that more tragic.
     
  11. Saora_Bin

    Saora_Bin Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2005
    You have to give Obi-Wan a little credit. He was a student all his life, and then BAM! He has to train the Chosen One.

    He did what he could.
     
  12. JediSteve30

    JediSteve30 Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    May 16, 2005
    "Obi-Wan was left in the charge of watching over Luke, and teaching him about the force. When It came time to actually do this, he told lies about his father , afraid of strong emotions becoming Luke's downfall as they were with his father. Luke, however, understood the value of family and sacrifice. Had he known Vader was his father he would not have pursued him as fiercely as he did in Empire. He could have dealt with the emotions first, and possibly have pulled him back sooner."

    I actually look at that statement in a different way.. in a sense, ANAKIN SKYWALKER did die when he made the turn to the Dark side. Anakin died, and Darth Vader was born. The soul of Anakin I feel died at the turn. Just like Yoda said, "Boy you trained.. gone he is.. consumed by Darth Vader"
     
  13. Amon_Amarth

    Amon_Amarth Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2005
    I agree that Padme would save Anakin id Obi-wan didn't show up. He was the last person Anakin needed to see at the moment.
     
  14. Xanatos_II

    Xanatos_II Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 26, 2005
    You guys are blind who say that Padme would have saved Anakin if it not for Obi-Wan, she was unconscious, she wasn't saving anybody, Anakin fulfilled his destiny and that is the way it is and had to be.
     
  15. Jedi_Angel_Leia

    Jedi_Angel_Leia Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    May 26, 2005
    Padme wasn't unconscience until AFTER Anakin saw Obi-Wan standing in the ship's entry way. That's when he blew up at her and started choking her.
     
  16. ShiriKeiCelisoe

    ShiriKeiCelisoe Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 8, 2002
    Padmé couldn't have saved Anakin. He told her that they could rule the galaxy together. Padmé then told him that he was breaking her heart. That man that stood before her was not the man she loved, married, and was the father of her children. I do not think that she could have saved Anakin. I think in some sense, Obi-Wan wanted to try to turn him back. But once Anakin said, "If you're not with me, then you're against me.", Obi-Wan knew that there was not saving his friend and brother. He did what he had to do. And I get the feeling that Obi-Wan thought that Anakin would have died eventually with or without the Emperor's help.
     
  17. DarthVegas

    DarthVegas Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 18, 2000
    Padme was in danger the moment she hugged Anakin on Mustafar.

    Don't be fools, Anakin was out of control, lest we saw a different movie. Padme was already rejecting Anakin.

    "You're a good person. Don't do this!"

    Anakin would NOT stop. He was CONSUMED. Listen to what he was saying.

    "We don't have to hide anymore..."

    "I can overthrow the Emperor and we can rule the galaxy together..."

    "The Jedi turned against me, don't YOU turn against me."

    Obi-Wan KNEW Padme was in danger. That was why he showed himself. Padme had no chance in hell of redeeming Anakin.
     
  18. JedioftheLivingforce

    JedioftheLivingforce Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    May 26, 2005
    Obi-wan failed because the code of the Jedi order was stupid. Granted one aprentice, but why not there be other mentors? Instead of Anakin having a mentor within the Jedi order , he ended up with a 2nd father figure who happened to be the Sith Master. The councils mistrust of Anakin led them to not have a good relationship with him, therefore he got a better relationship with Palpatine. How many people here tell their fathers everything when growing up? No one tells thier fathers everything growing up, but you may have friends you confide in. Anakin may have looked at Obi-wan as a father , but who else in the order of Jedi brothers trusted him? That was a huge mistake of the council.

    Anakin had great power and Obi wan didn't understand Anakins link to the Living Force, Anakin had dreams about his mothers death, why could he not help her? It's just a dream Anakin, it will pass. bull**** , Obi wan should have helped him put his heart at rest about his mother. What is wrong about a Jedi helping someone in trouble? Was it becasuse she was a slave woman in Obi -wans mind? Was it the retarded Jedi code about leaving everything behind, then in that case they should forget about compassion and peace, and protecting the so called republic.

    However ultimately , it still was Anakins decision to give himself to the darkside, no one elses, but the decision was more easily reached because he felt LOVE from his confidant, and not from the rest of the order whom did not trust him, nor helped him , nor understood him.
     
  19. MadMardigan

    MadMardigan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    After watching ROTS, I find Obi Wan the least to "blame." (I hesitate to use the word blame, since Yoda did sense much fear in Anakin in TPM).

    Anyway, if blame were to be assigned, I'd blame Palpatine the most for playing into Anakin's desires.

    Much of the blame also rests on Yoda and the Jedi Council for dicking Anakin around most of his life.

     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.