How Original? (LOTF Spoilers)

Couldn't they have tried a little harder. Jacen turns in the exact same way Anakin does. He doesn't really agree with the Sith, but he needs info from them and a Jedi wants to take that source away from him. So he kills the Jedi trying to kill the Sith, then is strung along in order to learn the secrets later. Both want to save the life of somebody they care about, neither learns anything to accomplish this, they just hope to.
They should have at least threatened his daughter. This just goes to show how attachment is a bad thing for Jedi. Just look at Leia's issues.
Anybody else sad the book never even mentioned Jacen's family?
Anybody else think the sacrifice mentioned at the end, the one awaiting Jacen, will be to kill his daughter?
So Ben/Luke will have to kill Jacen now huh? The teacher vs the student either way. HOW ORIGINAL.

 

I don´t think that a 16 years old boy can defeat Jacen. We are talking of Ben skywalker, not Clark Kent.

 

First, Jacen actually believes in what Lumiya says. Like he says many times "It makes sense." Jacen was already a Sith, he just didn't use the dark side that much, he had the same philosophy. All Lumiya had to do was convince him the dark side doesn't corrupt.

And the vision of Luke's death has nothing to do with joining the Sith. He just doesn't want Luke to die and kills Nelani for it, but he does NOT join the Sith to keep Luke alive or anything.

Jacen wants to learn the ways oif the Sith like he's learned about every other Force order so far, he just hadn't before because "the dark side corrupts." Now Lumiya has gotten him over that, and will instruct him, and he will visit the tombs of Ziost. thirst for knowledge, not protection of loved ones, is the reason for Jacen joining the Sith. But he also does kill an innocent friend andfellow Jedi to protect, but it has nothing to do with being a reason to join the Sith.

 

Of course they're Sith, the Sith are an idea. Not even Palpatine, the greatest of all Sith was a "true Sith" by conventional standards.

 

Jacen isn't Sith, but Lumiya is.

 

You should be complaining about 'How Original' Legacy is.

 

Didn't Vader teach her Sithly stuff when he was practicing on breaking the Rule of Two?

 

Yes, and iirc she's also spent a lot of time studying on Ziost. And she may have been taught by Vectivus' spirit. She's a Sith.

 

There's ample evidence for both sides. And by both sides, I mean whether she was a full-blown Sith Lord or not. It's fairly obvious she's had Sith training of some sort (through Vader and otherwise).

Page 363-
"Again and again, after my Sith training on Ziost."

But then there are these lines, which support the whole "not full-blown Sith Lord" view of Lumiya.

Page 364-
"I never had any chance to become Mistress of the Sith."

Page 365-
"That you're destined to become the next Sith Lord-The first Sith Lord to be active in decades."

It's a blurry line between the two, especially since some of her talk about not being able to master the deepest Sith techniques due to the cybernetics applies to Vader as well. And Vader is widely accepted as a true Sith Lord.

So who knows.

I'm just waiting for the Vader's Legacy article to set things straight.

Save us, Abel. You're our only hope.

 

And how much of that was "sweet talk" designed to win Jacen over, anyway...?

 

One of the reasons I was so against Jacen turning into an Evil Sith was based on the fact that I have zero interest in reading a carbon copy of the Anakin plotline from the films. Not surprisingly, ever since the spoilers started to flow my fingers have been crossed that that there?s a bigger plan involved that doesn?t simply revolve around Jacen falling into absolute evil only to be redeemed by a Skywalker at the very end. Though I haven?t yet gotten around to Betrayal, based on all that?s come before I?m steadfast in my belief that Jacen?s actions have indicated a character far removed from Anakin Skywalker?s brand of psychological imbalance. If this doesn't turn out to be the case, I?ll most likely bow out of reading Star Wars fiction altogether.

Unless, of course, Stover makes his way back into town.

 

Jello: Lumiya's been established as Dark Lady of the Sith in several different sources.

As for her pedigree-- she was tutored by Vader and studied on Ziost, at the very least. It's not out of the question that she came across a Holocron or two in her travels. She's at the very least recieved as much instruction as Nadd, Kun, or Ruin did-- more so, since she was actually tutored by a living Dark Lord.

 

I see Jacen's fall as being the total opposite of Anakin's. Both become Sith, but the how and why are totally different.

 

Her quote of Vergere surely implies they met, too; and possibly Vergere trained her a little (or maybe vice-versa)?

 

Star Wars' Jedi characters fall. It's the nature of the universe, it's one of the series' main sources of dramatic tension. What's crucial to these types of story's is that the individual nature of each characters rall and/or redemption be unique and unto itself. Anakin's is the templete for all others, and was so even before we knew the full details. Ulic Qel-Droma's was similar to Anakin's in a lot of ways, but his particular redemption came about in a far more lengthly and dare I say, quieter way. Revan's was different again, being a man fighting for redemption for activiteis he wasn't even aware that he was responsible for...

What I'm REALLY hoping here, is that though it seems inevitable that Jacen's going to go dark, that he simply doesn't decide that the best way to save the galaxy will be through galactic conquest. True, it's a recurring thing for the fallen, but I do feel that Jacen's more of a knowledge seeker/manipulator than an outright conquerer. I don't mind so much if he goes evil, I just don't want him to leap for the tyrant mantle at first (or second, or third) opportunity. His agenda must be UNIQUE.

Come on, Legacy team... show me that you've really thought this one out...

 

What I like about Jacen's fall is that it's largely intellectual....as opposed to Grandpa's emotion-driven descent.

Falls happen, just in different ways. And this way has got me interested.

Whether he'll be a true Sith is...something for an entirely new thread. We'll call it the semantics thread. The EU has pretty much established that anyone who gets ahold of a holocron or an amulet or a pile of Freedon Nadd's dung can call themselves a Sith and get away with it. Whether they're true Sith is really up to the beholder, as I've seen about as many viewpoints on this as viewers.

My (worthless and rapidly getting cheaper) opinion is that the "true Sith" died with Palpy. It'll be funny to see Darth Potentium though, whether he tries to conquer the galaxy or just runs around righting wrongs Venom-style.

 

Jacen sorta mentioned his family... when Nelani was trying to win him over, he mentioned that there was someone in his life right at the moment. And, with Ben around, I can understand how he can't make regular trips there... I'm sure he doens't want to mind-wipe Ben every week or two- he'd forget everything he'd learned!