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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

CT How planned ahead were the prequels

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by NakkyGraphics, Feb 7, 2016.

  1. NakkyGraphics

    NakkyGraphics Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2015
    Was George Lucas planning to make prequels since the first movie? So for example, when Obi Wan became a force ghost in ANH, did he plan to later explain that Qui Gon has been training Obi Wan this whole time how to become a ghost?
     
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  2. ObiWanKnowsMe

    ObiWanKnowsMe Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 7, 2015
    That's interesting and something Im not sure about. I do know he wanted to do the prequels immediately after the originals but needed to wait for the special-effects to get better
     
  3. Vector-Prime

    Vector-Prime Jedi Master

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    Aug 9, 2005
    Lucas was burned out after Jedi and never wanted to do the prequels right away.

    And he planned nothing. At all. Vader wasn't originally Luke's father and the Emperor was originally just some politician.
     
  4. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 8, 2015
    According to Gary Kurtz in 2002, there had been no plans to visualize the prequels while makig the OT. The addition of the episode numbers was merely to convey that the OT universe had a rich backstory which didn't necessarily imply that it should be shown.

    I think Lucas himself opened this "can of worms" when he decided that Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom should be a prequel to Raiders of the Lost Ark and created a continuity conflict.

    Indy in Raiders of the Lost Ark: "I don't believe in magic, a lot of superstitious hocus-pocus"

    (after what he "previously" witnessed with his own eyes in India in 1935???)
     
  5. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    Yes, this is pretty much it. I think he had planned the idea of the PT but nothing concrete as far as the story.
     
  6. oierem

    oierem Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Mar 18, 2009
    The question is really really hard to answer, not because we don't know it (we do, virtually all the information about the creation of the SW Saga is out there published), but because it is not a straight yes or no answer.

    The easiest answer to your question is no. The prequels (and the sequels, as a matter or fact) as we know them were never planned in detail when Lucas made the first movie (which wasn't even called ANH back then). Not only Qui-Gonn didn't even exist. Yoda didn't exist either (and in fact, Obi-Wan dying was something that was decided after the shooting had begun, and the idea of him becoming a ghost was virtually an improvisation -his voice is not meant to be interpreted necessarily as a ghost!). Vader wasn't Luke's father. And so on.

    That being said, Lucas did have very early plans to do sequels to the movie, and one or more of the sequels were planned to cover the early days of Ben Kenobi. But these are vague concepts that were floating around the mind of a filmmaker whose main struggle was to create a film.
     
  7. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

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    Jan 10, 2015

    Exactly. Apparently, Lucas's personal life and his other business opportunities distracted him for quite some time. Lucas made things up as he went along. Nothing wrong with that. I just like the OT more than the PT. Just a personal preference.
     
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  8. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    Lucas did always have some backstory in mind, and some of this backstory ended up in the prequels. For example, Vader's armor was always because he fell into lava in a duel against Obi-Wan and the Emperor was always Senator Palpatine who became an Emperor with the help of corporate interests.
     
  9. Slicer87

    Slicer87 Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 18, 2013
    Yes, there was a 1978 Lucasfilm posterbook that had articles about how Stormtoopers are clones, that the clones are created as embryos and rasied though childhood to be soliders like in AOTC. It also talked about how Vader fought with Obi-Wan and fell into a volcano burning him so bad he has to wear a life support suit. I heard he even had the idea for Midis back in the 70s, so he had some ideas. But I don't think he had everything planed out to a T back then.
     
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  10. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    Good points all. I do remember the lava duel being discussed back in the early 80s.
     
  11. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

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    Jul 7, 2009
    No, the character of Qui-Gon was created during pre-production of Episode I. What was in George's head as far as the prequels go were very broad strokes. The state of the galaxy, Anakin's being a slave as a kid, etc... And even then, those early concepts were changed and developed differently as time went on. Details like certain characters, designs, names, dialogue were only decided when he started developing them in the early 90s. Both the prequels and the sequels (V and VI) as we know them now, were only developed after the first movie was a success.
     
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  12. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    Lucas: Anakin Skywalker starting hanging out with the Emperor, who at this point nobody knew was that bad, because he was an elected official.

    Kasdan: Was he a Jedi?

    Lucas: No, he was a politician. Richard M. Nixon was his name. He subverted the senate and finally took over and became an imperial guy and he was really evil. But he pretended to be a really nice guy. He sucked Luke’s father into the dark side.

    Kasdan: The Force was available to anyone who could hook into it? Lucas: Yes, everybody can do it. Kasdan: Not just the Jedi?

    Lucas: It’s just the Jedi who take the time to do it.

    Marquand: They use it as a technique.

    Lucas: Like yoga. If you want to take the time to do it, you can do it; but the ones that really want to do it are the ones who are into that kind of thing. Also like karate. Also another misconception is that Yoda teaches Jedi, but he is like a guru; he doesn’t go out and fight anybody.

    Kasdan: A Jedi Master is a Jedi isn’t he?

    Lucas: Well, he is a teacher, not a real Jedi. Understand that?

    Kasdan: I understand what you’re saying, but I can’t believe it; I am in shock.

    Lucas: It’s true, absolutely true, not that it makes any difference to the story.

    Kasdan: You mean he wouldn’t be any good in a fight?

    Lucas: Not with Darth Vader he wouldn’t.

    Kasdan: I accept it, but I don’t like it.

    Lucas: Well, anyway, Luke’s father gets subverted by the Emperor. He gets a little weird at home and his wife begins to figure out that things are going wrong and she confides in Ben, who is his mentor. On his missions through the galaxies, Anakin has been going off doing his Jedi thing and a lot of Jedi have been getting killed—and it’s because they turn their back on him and he cuts them down. The president is turning into an Emperor and Luke’s mother suspects that something has happened to her husband. She is pregnant. Anakin gets worse and worse, and finally Ben has to fight him and he throws him down into a volcano and Vader is all beat up. Now, when he falls into the pit, his other arm goes and his leg and there is hardly anything left of him by the time the Emperor’s troops fish him out of the drink. Then when Ben finds out that Vader has been fished out and is in the hands of the Empire, he is worried about it. He goes back to Vader’s wife and explains that Anakin is the bad guy, the one killing all the Jedi. When he goes back his wife, Mrs. Skywalker has had the kids, the twins, so she has these two little babies who are six months old or so. So everybody has to go into hiding. The Skywalker line is very strong with the Force, so Ben says, “I think we should protect the kids, because they may be able to help us right the wrong that your husband has created in the universe.” And so Ben takes one and gives him to a couple out there on Tatooine and he gets his little hideout in the hills and he watches him grow. Ben can’t raise Luke himself, because he’s a wanted man. Leia and Luke’s mother go to Alderaan and are taken in by the king there, who is a friend of Ben’s. She dies shortly thereafter and Leia is brought up by her foster parents. She knows that her real mother died.

    Kasdan: She does know that?

    Lucas: Yes, so we can bring that out when Luke is talking to her; she can say that her mother died when “I was two years old.”

    --ROTJ story meeting transcript, taken from "The Making Of Return Of The Jedi", 1981.


    So Lucas had pretty much the broad strokes mapped out in 81. He just refined it as he went along. Note how much of that is similar to what's in ROTS.
     
  13. oierem

    oierem Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Mar 18, 2009
    We should be careful to use words like "always"and "originally". What does "always" mean? 1973? 1977? 1983?
    Vader's armor was first concieved as a space-suit that Vader would use to board the Rebels' ship, but he would take off the mask after that scene (draft 2, 1975). So, Vader's armor wasn't "always" because he fell into lava. That idea formed around 1976-77.
     
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  14. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

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    Jul 7, 2009
    Exactly. I think we can say that the basic skeleton was on Lucas' mind very early on. And by early on I mean post A New Hope' success. Of course many concepts remained from the early drafts (and even the original rough draft).
     
  15. Heroic BB-8

    Heroic BB-8 Jedi Knight star 1

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    Dec 29, 2015
    in this appearance, while doing promotion for the Empire Strikes Back, Mark Hamill said the intent (at least at that point) was to follow up Return of the Jedi with the prequel trilogy:

    [/media]

    i've read that Lucas gave Alex Guinness a page long summary to give the actor a good handle on the history of his character.

    as something of a storyteller myself, it's not at all uncommon to envision broad, nebulous strokes of the big picture, with maybe only a scene or few in much detail. much can change on the road from visualization to finalization.
     
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  16. Ord-Mantell70

    Ord-Mantell70 Jedi Master star 3

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    Mar 9, 2009
    Not really.

    Indeed, after Star Wars/ANH became a smash hit in summer 1977, Lucas bandied about other movies expanding the franchise, among them "The young days of Obi-Wan Kenobi and Luke's father", which was to deal with the backstory he came up with back then.

    But the concept of the prequels, as we know them (Episodes I II III), was actually born when the 3 trilogies' structure was finally decided by Lucas.

    It was officially revealed in 1979 during ESB's shooting, and likely emerged between early 1978 and early 1979. The merging of Father Skywalker with Darth Vader (April 1978) is probably a key point here. As it sort of created a very tragic, dramatic and fascinating tale, rich and complex enough to be told through 3 movies.

    By contrast, the sequel trilogy was added more as an afterthought. With just vague ideas and probably no real plot and story structure (at least in the OT era).
     
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  17. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 8, 2015
    Ord-Mantell70

    How reliable are your sources? According to my copy of the fourth ESB draft from October 24, 1978, Vader and Luke's father hadn't become one and the same, yet (i.e. Vader doesn't announce that he is Luke's father nor is there any hint for that).
     
  18. Darth Geezy

    Darth Geezy Jedi Master star 3

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    Jan 29, 2016
    I think this particular example was just force-feeding an explanation to explain the something in the classic trilogy.

    Just like C-3PO's memory being wiped being thrown in at the end of Ep. 3.
     
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  19. oierem

    oierem Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Mar 18, 2009
    In some of the later drafts of Empire the revelation was not included, just to prevent leaking. But the first draft that includes the "I am your Father" line is Lucas' own 2nd draft of April 1978.
     
  20. Ord-Mantell70

    Ord-Mantell70 Jedi Master star 3

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    Mar 9, 2009
    Thanks Pal...:D
     
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  21. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    With regards to the Force ghost explanation, the idea had evolved. In 1977, Lucas and Leigh Brackett met to discuss the first draft. In February of 78, Brackett's draft was completed and in it, it is explained to Luke that a number of Jedi are hiding in the Netherworld of the Force. Not all of them are dead. Lucas wound up ditching this scene when he wrote his drafts in April and by the time Kasdan came on board, there was no explanation. In 1981, Lucas had decided that Yoda would help rescue Vader's soul when he is killed taking out Palpatine. If he doesn't, then it will be lost to the Force. At the end of the rough draft, Anakin returns to life and is in fine physical health. Yoda and Obi-wan also return to life. In the revised rough draft, no one is resurrected save for Obi-wan and Yoda helps Anakin's soul to survive. But he does not become a ghost. Some time during filming of ROTJ in 1982, Kazanjian talks to Lucas about having Anakin appear as a ghost. Lucas was said to be rather annoyed at first, but then came around and added it in.

    The idea of needing help was there by 81, but it wasn't until Lucas settled on Qui-gon being a mentor to Obi-wan in 96, that the idea that he would be the first started to manifest itself.
     
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  22. Pax12

    Pax12 Jedi Padawan star 1

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    May 14, 2015
    Judging from midichlorians and that the Republic has stood for a thousand years, they weren't planned too far in advance.
     
  23. Daharis

    Daharis Jedi Youngling

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    Dec 29, 2015

    This is such an epic story. Why couldn't we have gotten this? Gahhh it fits so much better with the OT whyyyyyy
     
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  24. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001

    1. In the second draft of ANH, Lucas wrote that the Jedi were descended from one man.

    2. In 1977, Lucas stated that certain aliens have a different brain that allowed them greater access to the Force than humans.

    3. In ROTJ, Luke says that the Force runs strong in his family. Indicating a bloodline.

    As to the Republic, again, covered in the films. In ROTS, Mace and Palpatine both say that the Sith ruled the galaxy once and the Jedi got rid of them. The Sith took over the Republic once before and turned it into an Empire, before the Jedi fixed it.

    We did get that story. That was a rough draft. The PT is the final versions. Just as what was written in the first drafts of each OT film was not the same as what was made.
     
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  25. Nate787

    Nate787 Jedi Master star 3

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    Jan 29, 2016
    Knock it off. You knew what he meant.