How powerful are Imperial star destroyers?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Peacekeeper, Feb 28, 2001.

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  1. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    darth seti, ok one section.

    "iii. TIE Defenders also pose a serious threat to capital ship's shields. They have two warhead launchers, four laser connons, and two Ion Cannons. Defenders also can mount one mini-tractor beam projector, a jaming device, a "sensor cloak," which renders the ship invisible to most sensors, or a chaff counter-measure system, which releases liquid metal which warheds will lock on to. There are very few Defenders as they are very expensive and difficult to produce in mass numbers."

    just so you know chaff(liquid metal) and and stubble(mini-rockets) countermeasures can be mounted on "any fighter", and are not dangerous to a capship except that they keep the fighter alive longer.

    as the case of the tie defender, it useally has countermeasures added, along with one of the above "beam weapons", which you forgot to list the one that acts like a mag pulse, which If I remember right was called System disabling beam, or system suppressor. I will try to get back with you with the information.

    beam weapons can be mounted on "any fighter" but it's seldom done.

    second problem I see It seem less pushed to have the ion cannons section listed near the laser section. The way you have it right now it seems to be an almost ignored issue, and is a bit confusing.

    overall good job.

    From what I get out of gamer, you cannot publish a story unless you were a previously published scifi writer. But You may have a chance at an article or letter in the to the editor section.

  2. yoddles Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2000
    star 3
    Actually DarthSeti it wouldnt matter if Rukh had killed Grand Admiral Thrawn at the battle of the bilbringi shipyards if he had the Eclipse because the eclipse with its power and huge crew could have won the battle
    maybe the dreadnaughts and victory and imperial star destroyers would have been
    destroyed but the eclipse would take hits and hit back harder than it got, besides if ackbars ship had been hit by the superlaser then the NR fleet would have freaked out and took off or been simply to shocked and saddened by the loss of tuna face to keep fighting and the eclipse in thrawns command would have won even if thrawn had already been killed by rukh, BTW why did Pellaeon survive after he was attacked but thrawn didnt?
  3. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Simple. Pellaeon wasn't the target; Thrawn was-the Noghri are precise.
  4. DarthSeti5 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2001
    star 5
    Pellaeon issued the command to retreat because he was in a situation he couldn't handle. Thrawn was a millitary genious, and Pellaeon had no idea how he planed to win that battle. If Thrawn had the Eclispe, he would have it and the rest of the fleet in the stragnest posistions, that would prove wonders in the battle. But then Rukh would kill him, and Pellaeon wouldn't know what to do. The would retreat to the core, where his and Daala's fleets would plot the destrution of the NR. But, if Thrawn had the Eclispe, that meens Palpy's still there. He would take back his ship, and their fleets, for a push to take Courscant. There, the NR fleet would engage Palpy's fleet, and Luke and Leia would find a way into the Eclispe. There they would kill him, and destroy the ship. I don't know, it could happen. :D
  5. The Tears of Palpatine Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2000
    star 3
    General Thoughts:

    I. Missile boats and TIE Defenders are not fairly rare---they are *EXTREMELY* rare. Only a handful of missile boats was ever produced, and they were assigned to the absolute best pilots in the Empire. In fact, the missile boat never saw mass production. The TIE Defender likewise is issued in a strictly meritocratic fashion, due to extremely limited production.

    II. I, JEDI and THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK, as well as numerous other citations disprove the myth that shields must be specifically modified to block ion cannon blasts---in TESB, the ion cannon blasts visibly strike the Destroyer?s shields before rendering it inert.

    III. Lasers can be frequency-modulated? but STAR WARS vessels do not fire lasers. STAR WARS vessels fire highly energised plasma bolts, which *CANNOT* be frequency-modulated---gases do not operate on frequencies. In fact, there is no evidence to suggest that shield frequencies can be modulated, either.

    IV. Should not the generators actually generate the shields (hence the name "generator") and the projectors actually project the shields (hence the name "projector")? Incidentally, considering the semi-technical nature of the essay, we would suggest that you make the correct distinction between "energy" and "power," and between "engineer" and "technician."

    V. An edited version of your shield essay, for your perusal:

    The Ins and Outs of Shield Generators and Projectors:

    I. Shield Operation:

    i. Energy from the main reactor core enters the shield generators, where it is increased by a large factor and converted into a form of energy (?purified energy?) able to be used by the projectors.

    ii. Purified energy is routed from the generators to the shield projectors; there, the energy is converted into a ?deflector shield,? which is then projected around the ship, typically in a hull-hugging fashion.

    II. Shield Failure:

    i. Projector capacitors allow a safe power-down in the event of a failure of the shield generators until another energy source is procured. Although very uncommon, at times small amounts of shield energy residue remain in the capacitors, sometimes allowing 7.5 per cent or less shield energy to exist for a short time.

    ii. In the event of a failure of the shield generators, technicians will attempt to reroute ?crude energy? directly from the main reactor core to the shield projectors in order to reëstablish shield functions. Because the crude energy has not been refined into purified energy, the projectors are only able to function at approximately 25 per cent of maximum capacity; performance levels in excess of 25 per cent are documented, and are typically found on older ships with more experienced crews.

    iii. Deflector shields remain up when generators are overloaded, but cannot be replenished and are therefore easily brought down by salvoes from enemy vessels.

    iv. Deflector shields drop completely when projectors are overloaded, and this constitutes a serious threat as projectors are not as easily replaced as generators.

    III. Shield Types

    i. Particle deflector shields, which are closely hull-hugging in most warships, function as a sort of invisible and mass-less wall surrounding the ship. Solid materials, such as asteroids and starfighters, are vapourised on contact with the particle deflector shields. These are operating at all times in order to protect the ship from micrometeorites, and are only lowered in order to make repairs, receive or send HoloNet transmissions, and (in localised regions) to receive or launch smaller vessels. The absorption of kinetic energy and vapourisation of solid matter depletes the shields, thus necessitating constant replenishment.

    ii. Ray deflector shields, which tend to hull hugging (but not as closely as particle deflector shields) in order to prevent damage from ?bleed-through,? function as a sort of invisible and mass-less wall which absorbs incoming rays and re-transmits them over a greater area, thereby reducing the destructive effects immensely. The re-transmission of the rays does permit
  6. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    Tears, yes, yes, I like it. finally we agree on the aspects of star wars, and applying contiunaty fixes that encompesse all sources. This edited version is going on my saved document list, it's mostly how I want to read it. I just wish for a little more indeph coverage on "beam weapons" those things that aren't truly weapons but can effect annoying things on a cap ship when they are turned on. I would also like to see an indeph coverage on the different missle types.


    "III. Lasers can be frequency-modulated? but STAR WARS vessels do not fire lasers. STAR WARS vessels fire highly energised plasma bolts, which *CANNOT* be frequency-modulated---gases do not operate on frequencies. In fact, there is no evidence to suggest that shield frequencies can be modulated, either."

    one thing that needs to be addressed. while I agree on the plasma nature of lasers, frequency modulation from a cap ship has been used in at least one star wars story or article in a book I read(been awhile but I believe it was in a short story in weg books, I don't read fanfic so I'm sure I didn't get it from an unofficial source). We need to find a way of fixing this continuaty error in a efficiant and timely matter, so that it fits with all other aspects of the big story of a fictional universe.

    I also rather liked this part, if you could find an efficiant way of documenting it:

    "There have been several documented cases of shield residue going higher than 7.5%, some as high as 15%, but it is very uncommon."

    I have to say congrats to your work again, between you and seti, good stuff, I hope it can be published in an article of gamer.
  7. The Tears of Palpatine Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2000
    star 3
    The Ins and Outs of Shield Generators and Projectors, v. 6.2:

    I. Shield Operation:

    i. Energy from the main reactor core enters the shield generators, where it is increased by a large factor and converted into a form of energy (?purified energy?) able to be used by the projectors.

    ii. Purified energy is routed from the generators to the shield projectors; there, the energy is converted into a ?deflector shield,? which is then projected around the ship, typically in a hull-hugging fashion.

    II. Shield Failure:

    i. Projector capacitors allow a safe power-down in the event of a failure of the shield generators until another energy source is procured. Although very uncommon, at times small amounts of shield energy residue remain in the capacitors, sometimes allowing 7.5 per cent or less shield energy to exist for a short time. There are some documented cases of shield residue higher than 7.5 per cent, sometimes as high as fifteen per cent, but this is extremely uncommon.

    ii. In the event of a failure of the shield generators, technicians will attempt to reroute ?crude energy? directly from the main reactor core to the shield projectors in order to reëstablish shield functions. Because the crude energy has not been refined into purified energy, the projectors are only able to function at approximately 25 per cent of maximum capacity; performance levels in excess of 25 per cent are documented, and are typically found on older ships with more experienced crews.

    iii. Deflector shields remain up when generators are overloaded, but cannot be replenished and are therefore easily brought down by salvoes from enemy vessels.

    iv. Deflector shields drop completely when projectors are overloaded, and this constitutes a serious threat as projectors are not as easily replaced as generators.

    III. Shield Types

    i. Particle deflector shields, which are closely hull-hugging in most warships, function as a sort of invisible and mass-less wall surrounding the ship. Solid materials, such as asteroids and starfighters, are vapourised on contact with the particle deflector shields. These are operating at all times in order to protect the ship from micrometeorites, and are only lowered in order to make repairs, receive or send HoloNet transmissions, and (in localised regions) to receive or launch smaller vessels. The absorption of kinetic energy and vapourisation of solid matter depletes the shields, thus necessitating constant replenishment.

    ii. Ray deflector shields, which tend to hull hugging (but not as closely as particle deflector shields) in order to prevent damage from ?bleed-through,? function as a sort of invisible and mass-less wall which absorbs incoming rays and re-transmits them over a greater area, thereby reducing the destructive effects immensely. The re-transmission of the rays does permit a certain amount of ray energy to ?bleed through,? and the process gradually depletes the shields, thus necessitating constant replenishment. Ray deflector shields are only raised in combat situations due to the considerable energy requirements.

    iii. Cloaking shields, which are spherical in shape, function by creating immense warps in space-time in order to cause matter and energy to flow around the shield rather than actually striking it. This causes the ship to be completely invisible, but also has the side effect of blinding the ship generating the shield. In addition, exhaust must be vented through the shield, which might conceivably be detected by enemy vessels. Sufficiently sensitive gravitic sensors can detect cloaking shields.

    IV. Dangerous Warheads

    i. Warheads include concussion missiles, 1.5-kiloton proton torpedoes, advanced concussion missiles and advanced proton torpedoes, heavy rockets, space bombs, multi-megaton capital ship warheads, mag pulse warheads, and T-33 warheads, which are extremely dangerous and can overload Star Destroyers? shields in approximately three impacts.

    ii. Warheads are unaffected by ray deflector shields, and it is rumoured that there exists some types of
  8. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    tears of palpatine commendable job to you and seti. your fix for the "anomalous laser modifications" makes very good sense and fixes a very possible giant continuaty error in a story.

    Now if you played tiefighter you will know of these items: "Beam modules" (exact name escapes me.) they may be nice to add in sake of completeness.

    They are an enhancment module on a ship that give it a advantage.

    some beams disable ship components like a mag pulse if aimed at a component on a ship.

    some are mini tractor beams a resourceful pilot might find a use for it on something larger other than a fighter although very unlikely.

    some are jamming devices keep a radio from asking for reinforcements.

    some are like "cloaking" devices, while the fighter remains "visible" to the nakid eye he cannot be targeted, this can pose a major threat to a capship because it doesn't know what he is fireing at or being fired upon by unless the gunner has good vision.

    in any case they pose a threat to a capship if mounted on a bomber type fighter, so should be threats that should be assessed.

    In anycase I salute your good job so far.
  9. The Tears of Palpatine Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2000
    star 3
    Addendum est, Section IV, sub-section ii:

    "The extremely rare mag pulse warheads, which are confirmed as being equipped with the unusual ability to by-pass shields, have sensors which target weapons emplacements, and detonate just above them. These weapons render weapons emplacements completely inert for some time, often the entirety of a combat engagement. These are therefore considered to be even more dangerous than the other types of warheads."

    The others---the discussions of starfighters, their equipment, and ECMs---do not really belong in an exposition on shields. Perhaps another essay, if DarthSeti5 would be so willing.
  10. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    That sounds like a excellant Idea, I'm willing to read what ever you two come up with at this point. I hope I can be of assistance to some small degree.

    you have both fixed continuaty only using what official stuff we all have access too, or have been printed. Making it all make sense. without contradiction to anything, allowing said things to exist in a complete "continuaty" of a fictional universe.

    Even If I have helped to a certain degree, my dictation is crude,(ah the problem with a mind that goes faster than my fingers can type.), I prefer how you and seti have put it together.

    seti are you willing to do part two?

    Maybe this article if you can get it published can have a part two in another issue of gamer.(as far as I can remember geting articles published takes alot less requirements, and is alot easier to do than getting a story published in the mag.)

    section one is now going to my save documents. until part II.....
  11. Matthew Trias Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 1999
    star 6
    enhanced torps:

    http://www.decipher.com/starwars/cardlists/deathstar2/light/large/enhancedprotontorpedoes.html

    BTW,these are the torps,that I think Rogue Squad uses in the novels.

    Regular Torps

    http://www.decipher.com/starwars/cardlists/premiere/light/large/protontorpedoes.html
  12. BigStarWarsFan Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2001
    One proton torpedo could not hurt a star destroyer but a hole squadron of proton torpedos could. In The Bacta War Rogue Squadron would all target at the same spot on the SSD and and shoot 2 missiles each which equals 24 missiles. 8 missiles would be shot early to lower the shields in that area and then the remaning missiles would slam into the SSD hull. With 16 missiles slaming into the hull they can cause a lot of damage. Each X-Wing holds 6 missiles so that is a total of 72 missiles. I would be scared if I saw that many missiles coming at me.
  13. DarthSeti5 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2001
    star 5
    Part two eh? What would we include? Hey, Tears, thanks for the revisions. I haven't had a lot of time to make any, school and all. You actually fixed somethings I was going to change. :)

    Oh, for the ( "purified energy" ) part, have a space between the " and )
  14. DarthSeti5 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2001
    star 5
    Yeah, 72's a lot. But they had three hundred. "Run away!" ;)
  15. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    exactly. That is tears and seti's essay tries to demonstrate.

    Even in the games you couldn't just take down a star destroyer with hust 6 torps, it took commands to your wingman, persistance attacks with laser fire, cap ships doing damage to your mission objective et cetera.

    But in most cases you could not defeat them without turning on the cheat options. the main thing in the games was basically winning a beatable missision which involved scanning stuff or defending stuff. Actual destruction of cap ships was limited to only certain missions. If you were able to succeed on a early mission, you most likely were cheating. Time was also a factor where a capship would jump out of system if threatened too much or they just chose to after a certain time. Missions also had limits to how long you could battle. So you basically were stuck only solving certain solvable mission objectives, unless you decided to turn on cheats. so technically the games are not as inacurate as people report them to be, and fit in with basically the rest of the continuity just fine. All that is left is minor problems caused by limitations to the programming technology at the time.

    Tears and seti have shown how it all fits together, and I can't wait to see their next article if they choose to do it.
  16. BigStarWarsFan Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2001
  17. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    "Part two eh? What would we include"

    I personally want to see an essay on different fighters of the star wars universe throughout the ages and their weapons, ecms, countermeasures, shield packages and other equipment.

    Remember to keep complete continuaty, between all elements of canon and official. instead of throwing out information work on trying to make it fit. Use immigination if something seems wrong instead of just ignoring. Ignoring is a copout method of fixing a problem.

    Your first essay showed you could include all info and get it all to fit. That is what I like to see. That is why I like your essay better than saxton's work(he ignores stuff he doesn't like).

    I am all for one "complete non-biased continuaty", because if we throw one thing out we might as well throw all if out, and become movie only fans. That is why I'm a defender of everyone one who has worked for lucasfilm and their hard work they were payed for.
  18. DarthSeti5 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2001
    star 5
    I think I'll just move on out and start a thread. . .
  19. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
  20. Mateo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2001
    star 4
    I wonder how a Yuuzhan Vong Worldship would compare to a Imperial Class II Star Destroyer in terms of power?
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