Full Series How Powerful did Dooku think Maul (TPM) was?

When Dooku begins to train Savage, he says Savage will soon be able to "rival the great Sith, Darth Maul." After that line, he says they will eventually become powerful enough to overthrow Sidious.

Apparently, Dooku holds Maul in good regard. Does this mean Maul (TPM) was around the same league as Ventress?

 

For Sidious to pass up Talzin in favor of Maul, seems to suggest that Maul did have great potential. But potential seems to only go so far. Since, unless canon changes, the idea that Lucas put forward was that Dooku was kind of a fallback plan because Sidious didn't have time to raise another apprentice from childhood.

So, I do get the vibe that Maul was very powerful, and probably had a much greater potential than what we ever saw him reach.

I don't think Asajj was in the same league as him. While Maul ultimately lost to Palpatine, he did manage to last quite a while and lasted longer than three Jedi Masters. Meanwhile we see Yoda rip Asajj's lightsabers out of her hands with the Force like it's nothing.

 

Ventress was no where near the same league as Darth Maul during TPM since he was a true Sith Lord, a Darth(we never get his backstory(yet) but obviously he underwent all the training and trials a lenial Sith Apprentice to where Sidious would bestow the title of Darth). With the combined strengths of Kenobi and Ventress they still found themselves hopelessly outmatched by Darth Maul and Savage Opress. Maul overpowered and dominated Kenobi throughout the series.

Dooku knew how powerful Maul was:

Count Dooku: [referring to Darth Maul]: A warrior of the same caliber?


Count Dooku: I foresee we will do great things together. I shall teach you the ways of the dark side. Soon, your powers will rival that of the great Sith Lord Darth Maul. We will be even more powerful than Lord Sidious. We shall rule the galaxy together, my apprentice

Count Dooku : Something is rising... Something sinister[sensing the return of who would be Darth Maul]...

- Ultimate Star Wars

Maul was growing in strength since his return from Lotho Minor and all the way up to SOD. His knack for survival is also strength and victory and clearly places the Force on his side.

 

I always figured Maul probably could have been a lot more powerful/dangerous but he never actually realised it. Sidious was content with an apprentice whose sole purpose was to kill the things Sidious wanted dead, no more than that. I am sure Sidious would have taken up Dooku as his apprentice even if Maul was still (known to be) alive. It took being chopped in half and abandoned by his Master for Maul to realise he could control his own destiny.

Dooku probably did have respect for Maul's combat skills but otherwise saw him as crude and savage.

 

Didn't Dooku think in the RotS novelization that Maul was a skilled beast? He probably respected Maul's abilities, and in the end he accepted an alliance in Son of Dathomir.

 

He did say that but novel-Dooku was a borderline fascist and outright xenophobe/human supremacist, whilst even at his most evil TCW Dooku didn't seem particularly bigoted... he thought he was better than everyone because he was a Sith Lord, not because he was human.

 

I always viewed Maul as a psychical power-house like a dark side version of Mace or Anakin/Pre-suit Vader.

Dooku on the other hand I viewed as being more of a calculating evil like a dark version of Qui-Gon or Yoda.

 

In my opinion Clone Wars strongly change the image of Dart Maul. Before CW, Maul was portrayed as widle, savage tool of the dark side. After Darth Plagueis novel, he has been further humiliated. He lost his title od Sith Lord to Sith Tool/ Assasin. He was thoughtless, devoid of character and blindly obedient to Sidious, who was not able to plan anything by himself.

Clone Wars returned Maul his personality and title of Sith Lord.We don't even know, if Plagueis was alive during Maul's training. And in Son of Dathomir comics he was able to defeat Dooku in batlle. So he was stroneger then him. I know that RotS novelization is canon, but it has been written before Clone Wars. So it descreibes Maul in old way.

 

Slightly better than Ventress in TPM, and later Maul even become more powerful in TCW than he was in TPM.

 

The ROTS novel is not canon, and could not be considered as such since TCW overrided it years later, but you have to take the context into consideration in which that line was spoken and even then there was a back handed compliment for Maul. It was a trading of barbs and both Anakin and Dooku were playing psychological morale head games. Anakin was using Maul's defeat against Dooku, while Dooku was dismissing that boast and promoting himself. In the end Dooku got cut to pieces himself and Anakin himself would soon follow. So we know how that all worked out for them two. Plus Dooku was now the Sith Apprentice, so naturally he'd feel superior in his mind and ego than his predecessor.

The line:



Sidious prepared Darth Maul to destroy all the Jedi, which included Dooku. He defeated Dooku old padawan Master Jinn and he defeated his padawan, Kenobi. He also divided and conquered by controlling the direction of the fight by separated both Jinn and Kenobi in the reactor duel with the various levels and ray shied walls. Maul was very calculating even back then.

Sidious: You have been well trained my young apprentice, they will be no match for you.

 

Well, if Sidious took him at a young age and spent all of that time in training him, then he must have seen something in him. Otherwise, why take somebody (as a Sith) who has no chance in hell of surpassing you, when that is the whole premise to keep the Sith line going? Like TG said, he lasted far longer against Sidious then three Jedi High Council members, and lasted roughly about as long as Yoda did when he fought Sidious.Then later kept himself alive through either sheer force of will or the dark side (likely both) after sustaining what should be a fatal injury and falling enough feet in a shaft that would have broken some bones in anyone else.

I'm wondering whatever inherited natural elemental affinity from Talzin and all of that Sith training from Sidious himself makes him some deadly Force-based hybrid that keeps going when he should be dead. It's what I'm starting to think, anyway.

 

In my eyes Maul was much more powerful than Ventress. I think many people think of him as an mere assassin, a brute if you will. Even if that was his primary role when he was an apprentice to Darth Sidious, he still was THE apprentice. Apprentice of 'the most powerful being in the galaxy', a Dark Lord of the Sith. I'd say that Ventress was on level of a very experienced jedi knight, slightly below an average master. Maul was a Sith Lord, only the most powerful masters of the order could rival his power.

 

According to George; Maul, Vader and Dooku were all on the same level. Yet, the new canon seems to be placing Vader above the other two (imho). Ventress, however, was more or less on the skill level of a Jedi Knight (I'd place her slightly stronger than the Grand Inquisitor)

 

I think Vader at his prime was much stronger than both Dooku and Maul. Vader > Dooku > Maul IMO.

 

Agreed.

At times, the new canon kinda dismisses the idea Vader's suit limited his ability.

 

Totally agree on Maul and Ventress being in different leagues. I like both characters, but Maul would destroy her in a fight.

 

Maul was deliberately designed to be this devilish and nightmarish figure and a physical manifestation of Evil(Dark Side). Vader despite all his exhaustive efforts could not best Obi Wan Kenobi on Mustafar, that is important, and that was after his Dark Side power up at the Jedi Temple so he should be at his most powerful peak not less. Maul defeated Kenobi both in TPM and during TCW. If Darth Vader has grown more powerful since, then so has Maul since TCW(provided if he's not deceased). Maul was powerful during TPM, this is acknowledged by Jinn and Sidious himself, and he was growing in power during his return on TCW and becoming more powerful than he was on TPM. His potential seemed limitless really , but much like Anakin, both were cut short and set back, Maul on Naboo and Vader on Mustafar.

Lucas by making Maul the son of Talzin, herself an enigmatic, mystical and powerful figure in the Dark Side and born on a planet extremely powerful in the Dark Side. Maul follows a mythological birth by a Goddess, so a very similar journey as Anakin and Luke is also interesting, as this gave Maul a certain pedigree that is pretty near Anakin's mysterious midiclorian birth. One can interpret Kenobi fighting Maul during the TPM as Lucas's version of Gandalf fighting the fiery demonic Balrog in Moria. The red laser walls could be the representation of the fiery pits of hell even. Both Maul and the Balrog fall into a chasm. balrogs used swords of fire(red lightsaber) or black axes or maces(Dark Saber?).

We know Maul's power was growing stronger and stronger:




Erkan12 made a good post a while back:

- George Lucas, AOTC DVD Commentary.





At 5:54 mark:

Darth Maul : I was destined to become so much more...

--Shadow Conspiracy

 

But was Darth Maul stron enough to defeat Spider-Man?

 

Maul will be back eventually. After all, he's very angry, and therefore functionally immortal. And that's 100% canon FACT.

 

No doubt the legend of Maul lives on. I wonder what Rebels has in store for him. I actually would be more interested in his journeys of revenge against the Jedi during the Clone Wars. We see this in one of the episodes with he and Savage attacking Jedi. Wish these types of events happened before TPM with Maul as he was before being sliced up. Would have been great to see this as how he was introduced, then in TPM the Sith would have already been revealed and we would have Maul with a few Jedi kills to his credit.

 

The way I see it Ventress was an Assassin, Nothing more, and she was only given the skills Dooku thought were necessary for her to complete her Job. Maul And Dooku were on a completely different level, and I believe Dooku certainly respected Mauls skill, after all he was able to strike down his former Padawan Quigon in a fair fight, only being undermined by his own Arrogance. In his own head he might think he is above Maul in competence and Skill but He does respect Maul as a great Sith Lord in his own right. Sith always think themselves better then their predecessors, that is to be expected.