Discussion How powerful in the Force should Luke be in the ST?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII - Spoilers Allowed' started by darth ladnar, Mar 30, 2014.

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How powerful in the Force should Luke be in the ST?

This poll will close on Mar 30, 2016 at 4:30 PM.
Slightly more powerful than he was in ROTJ and slightly wiser about the ways of the Force 3 vote(s) 3.8%
Slightly more powerful than he was in ROTJ and slightly wiser and with more/new Force abilities 7 vote(s) 8.9%
Slightly more powerful than he was in ROTJ and just as wise as Yoda 4 vote(s) 5.1%
Just below the most powerful in combat (equal to Mace maybe) and just below the top in wisdom 7 vote(s) 8.9%
Just below the most powerful in combat but just as wise as they are or with more/new Force abilities 6 vote(s) 7.6%
As powerful in combat as Yoda or Palpatine but not as wise as they are about the ways of the Force 7 vote(s) 8.9%
As powerful in combat as Yoda and Palpatine and also as wise as they are about the ways of the Force 9 vote(s) 11.4%
More powerful than Yoda or Palpatine in combat and wiser and/or with more Force abilities 6 vote(s) 7.6%
As powerful as the Chosen One if Anakin had reached his full potential 19 vote(s) 24.1%
More powerful than the Chosen One at his full potential or any Jedi/Sith ever 11 vote(s) 13.9%
  1. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2003
    star 7
    That's clearly why Mark has been losing weight. He needs to be as light of a burden as possible while riding around in someone's backpack.
  2. Darth_Downunder Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2001
    star 4
    It's brought home pretty clearly at the end when Luke looks at his father's severed mechanical hand & then his own.

    Also, nowhere is it stated that a Force choke is a Dark Side move. That's just fan assumption bcs Vader liked to do it. As long as it's used for defence & not attack there's no reason stated that there's anything wrong with it. Giving a couple of Gamoureans a quick non fatal choke after they block his path is I guess arguable, but I don't see it as anything to do with the Dark Side. I do agree though that it was partially meant to invoke his father's actions. Again though, his father used it for attack & cruelty & to murder. Luke didn't.
    JediMatteus likes this.
  3. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    "No reward is worth this!"
  4. darth ladnar Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 20, 2013
    star 3
    Yeah, I pretty much agree with what you're saying. I think it would have helped some if GL had left in the deleted scene where Luke is constructing his new lightsaber as he telepathically hears Vader's voice asking him to join the dark side. He seems genuinely troubled by Vader there. Also the whole silliness of when they are captured by the Ewoks and Luke just calmly lets it happen didn't serve the "Luke on the dark side path" character arc very well.

    I think GL has said that the black cloke was chosen to hint that Luke is capable of going down a dark path. Also, the Force choke, to me, seems like it is meant to hint that his devotion to the light side isn't totally pure. He could have just as easily used the Jedi mind trick on them as he did with Bib Fortuna, but he consciously chose to use a more violent approach to deal with them.

    Other people have made the point that Luke easily picks up the ability to Force choke and that his easy mastery of this is a sign of his incredible learning potential. I think Luke does have a very high Force potential and picks things up very quickly. However, I don't think his being able to Force choke shows this. I think all Jedi have the ability to Force choke others. They just choose not to. Force choking is no different than any other type of Force telekenisis. If you can crush a can using Force telekinesis (which seems pretty basic, like pushing or lifting), then you can Force choke. Force choking seems very different from Force lightning, which I get the impression requires a great mastery of the dark side.
    Immortiss and Mystery Roach like this.
  5. JediMatteus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2008
    star 4

    i disagree. the force chokes were not even close to dark sided. they werent dead. it was a temporary move just to keep thme at bay.
    Darth_Downunder likes this.
  6. Master Ood Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 1998
    star 4
    Maybe the balance in the force that the prophecy talks about is actually Luke. Maybe his ability to walk the tight rope between the Darkside and the light side, And then perhaps this is something he teaches his students? I never read much of the EU, so I'm speaking simply from a movie standpoint.
  7. purplerain Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 2013
    star 4
    Yet Dawn of the Jedi suggests exactly what you're saying.
  8. Master Ood Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 1998
    star 4
    Oh neat. Earlier it was mentioned his use of the Force Choke so I was kind of referencing that. And how Anakin first destroyed the Jedi then destroyed the Sith, leaving only Luke to figure it out for himself. Anakin brought balance by basically hitting the reset button which allowed Luke to rebuild from scratch.

    I'm not completely EU free, I did read a few of the books (Zahn's first series and a few I don't remember the titles) but honestly that's about it.

    Edit: as for the question at the beginning of this thread, how powerful in the force should look be? I think we should see a significant increase in his powers and wisdom. I think everyone will look at him as the Yoda type figure, but I don't think he will be nearly as wise as Yoda. Let's face it, Yoda had 900 years of experience to call on.
    Last edited by Master Ood, Apr 14, 2014
  9. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    I think @darth ladnar nailed it. I wasn't suggesting that Force choking itself is a Dark Side power in the way that lightning is, but rather that choosing to use the Force that way is an inherently Dark action, and very un-Jedilike.
    Master Ood likes this.
  10. purplerain Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 2013
    star 4
    I wouldn't be so sure about that because they might want a villain who's connected to the villains of I-VI.
  11. Master Ood Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 1998
    star 4
    Well at the end of ROTJ there were only two Sith, he killed one and the other (Darth Vader) died of his wounds. Thus at least at the end of the original trilogy the only living Jedi was Luke. Reset button hit.

    Granted, 30 years later anything can happen. If they do have a villain who's connected, I really pray it makes sense. /eyeroll and if they make the villain Luke, well let's just say I'll have a very hard time with that
  12. purplerain Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 2013
    star 4
    What about a secret apprentice?
    T-R- likes this.
  13. Master Ood Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 1998
    star 4
    I could swallow that, but it wasn't exactly Palpatine's style. He killed off his current (or had them killed) apprentice before taking on the new one. We'll as far as we know... Although as I'm typing this I'm thinking, Count Dooku. It isn't really clear whether he was secretly an apprentice before Darth Maul's death.

    Something else that comes to mind is Anakin was always the prize from the start. Darth Maul and Count Dooku were merely pawns during Palpatine's acquisition of Anakin a.k.a. Darth Vader. So that kind of makes me think he didn't have a secret apprentice, he had the number one draft pick already. Yeah he sensed something was bothering Vader, but he wasn't able to see Vader's betrayal therefore he wouldn't think that he needed a new apprentice.
    Last edited by Master Ood, Apr 14, 2014
    BigAl6ft6 likes this.
  14. DarkGingerJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 21, 2012
    star 2

    Doubtful. That's what was so important about turning Luke to the Dark side. Palpatine wanted to replace Vader with Luke. Vader wanted Luke to team up with him to defeat the Emperor. Both of them desperately needed Luke on their side. If either of them had secret apprentices, they would have used them long ago.
  15. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    That said, having Force-sensitive minions, a la the Inquisitor, who are not in line to be The Apprentice, who are forced to fend for themselves after Palpatine & Vader's deaths, does seem reasonable.
  16. Darth Punk Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2013
    star 4
  17. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
  18. darthjj88 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 1
    I voted this too. I feel the potential is there to be powerful on par with the greats, but as for wise, circumstances would dictate a shorter and kinda odd (through force ghosts and on his own) training.

    Yup yup, beat me too it
    darth ladnar likes this.
  19. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    One idea I had was that one of the sequel villains was a discarded apprentice, banished for a failure to a hostile and wild world where he/she had to live like a common beast and only really discovered the power of the dark side there, in this environment where only survival of the fittest counts.
    A savage villain who forgot everything about etiquette but is extremely cunning and dangerous at the same time, constantly underestimated by his/her civilised peers.
    Last edited by Darth_Pevra, Apr 15, 2014
  20. Immortiss Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2013
    star 4
    I agree. A force choke is quicker, easier and more seductive. It's aggressive and confrontational. It's the quick and easy path. Luke was portrayed as still recovering from his recent failures in the cave and his decision to face Vader. Yoda says as much not long after said force choke.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    darth ladnar likes this.
  21. darth ladnar Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 20, 2013
    star 3
    Before you said it, I had never really thought about just how well the act of Force choking embodies the dark side. In some ways, it seems to embody it even more than Force lightning does. At one point in TESB, Vader just Force chokes to death one of his admirals while carrying on a conversation with another Imperial. Nothing can be easier, quicker, and more intimidating than that, and the power to intimidate with so little effort would certainly feel very seductive to someone who thirsts for power.
    Immortiss, Darth_Pevra and purplerain like this.
  22. Darth Punk Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2013
    star 4
    MARK HAMILL: You haven't seen my new costume yet. It's all black. I told George it's very Vaderish, but he said, "It's supposed to be".

    - Bantha Tracks #18, November 1982

    I think Luke was using the lesser known Force Pie power, based on the drooling sound that Gammorean guard makes.
    Last edited by Darth Punk, Apr 19, 2014
    TKT likes this.
  23. The Hellhammer 7SA Forum Interrogator

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2012
    star 5
    Sith Barbarians! :D
    Darth_Pevra and purplerain like this.
  24. DanielUK Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 3
    Something like this, maybe?

    [IMG]
  25. Darth Punk Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2013
    star 4
    Who's that, Darth S&M?