Lit How should darksiders be handled post ST?

In terms of their in-universe ideology, sure. But as fictional constructs, the way they're used in their one appearance absolutely offers nothing to differentiate themselves from the Sith of the prior movies, especially the prior three movies.

 

Precisely, because it's one appearance that doesn't at all investigate who they are.

 

It does investigate who Kylo Ren is, though - and who he is is a man obsessed with being like Darth Vader, which is why it's odd that he's supposedly different from a Sith.

 

I don't think that even if there were other clans that would lessen the impact/potential of a survivor. The other clans are not her people, she is still the last of her kind.

But how would they use the Force, alternative how should their use of the Force be presented? I can see them functioning similar to Temple of the Four Orders, Sherlock Holmes (2009), expect at least some of their believed powers are real.

 

You're right, Gamiel. I find it pretty hard to believe there was only 1 Nightsister clan on Dathomir. Makes you wonder why they didn't just call for backup, though. Maybe they all hate each other and refuse to acknowledge one another.

 

One of the reasons the Native Americans lost North America to the settlers was cause they all wouldn't unite.

 

What things do they do that "don't feel like Star Wars" to you?

I actually have a fanon post about a dark side organisation that's inspired by (among others) the Freemasons and Golden Dawn. Should I quote that post here?

 

On the topic of Kylo Ren... it is interesting that Snoke says

1. Kylo Ren hasn't yet finished his training

2. Kylo Ren is Master of the Knights of Ren


It certainly suggests to me that the Knights of Ren are NOT Force-based... probably closer to mercenaries turned Kylo's special agents.

Just saw this post now. I don't think their "magic" is very StarWars-y at all. So much that it (along with the Mortis/Priestess arcs in TWC and some of the Jedi stuff in Rebels) are why I hope the TV shows are decanonized one day. Not all of them, but those parts, yes.

And definitely feel free to post your idea here!

 

I think they're Force-users, just not very advanced ones. Even given what Kylo and the First Order are like, the iconography seems a bit weird if they have no powers.

 

Maybe their are other clans, but the feeling I got from the Rebels episode with Maul and Ezra on dathomir, is that all the night sisters were killed on the planet. Anyways on discussing the future of darksiders post ST, should the idea of a sex exclusive group be used again? Another sisterhood of darkness? Though a dark brotherhood would seem repitive. While the Sith don't exclude females, it's almost like an actual brotherhood because most are male, and so far it doesn't seem Snokes darkside band has women. But if either a future dark side group only allowed females or males, it could be Disneys chance to explore sexism. We already have various examples of that in the old continuity, though it seems there is far less examples in the new.

 

1. Just because he wants to be like Vader doesn't mean he's like Vader.
2. What Kylo Ren wants personally may not have very much to do with what the Knights of Ren consider themselves to be.

The old EU had a lot of this stuff, too.

 

Feel free, also I imagined them as their power depending on how well they individually trained themselves. They might know just enough to get ahead by studying a holocron, alternatively they might've been a Sith's apprentice but decided to go Set Harth, except less hedonism and more of having a craving to rule over others yet not get the notice of the Galaxy so they don't bother them. They would differ very much individually, some might opt to be power behind the throne and manipulate the private sector, others might want to be direct though still not flaunt their powers. I suppose I'd imagine it something like Plagueis and Sheev, except very very low-scale and not caring much about revenge against the Jedi or dominating the entire Galaxy. As villains for the heroes to stop, they'd be more suited executives and less evil wizards with dark hoods.

 

Okej:

 

I love the idea of a benevolent darksider who uses his/her emotions to empower himself/herself but uses these powers for good. I don't think being a darksider automatically makes you a psychopath killer.

 

Question about this: didn't the Plagueis novel introduce an "Order of the Canted Circle" that seemed to already be the galaxy far far away's version of a Hellfire Club?

This isn't a criticism. I love everything about what you wrote and would be thrilled to see a few novels about it. I'm just bringing up the OCC as a potential alternative group to pour the idea into (ideal since if I recall correctly, the Plagueis novel introduced them but was very vague about what they do, leaving it possible for anyone else to pick up the story where they left off and actually develop it).

 

I'd like to see a Hedonistic Dark Jedi led pirate gang. Basically some totally insane Dark Jedi who uses their powers to plunder their way to wealth and power. Less Lawful Evil (which would be associated with the Imperial kind of thing) and more Chaotic Evil or even just Chaotic Neutral.

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Granted, you've got different shades of darksider, but outright "benevolent" is not -- and shouldn't be! -- one of those shades. The best you can hope for is probably a Doctor Doom figure.

 

Here are some more dark side groups from the Fanon thread

I have not read the Plagueis novel so I don't know.

Thanks

and GFFA is a big place, there is place for many of them, I mean just our Earth have had all manners of semi-occult society made up by rich/powerful people. If anybody want to use some elements from my Ordo Aurorae Aureae in their version of the Order of the Canted Circle (or something else) I am all for it (even if I like to be tagged if people use or are inspired by my stuff).

That's a good idea, what kind of powers do you think such a person/group should/would have? And if a group what kid of organisation should they have? Or are you just thinking of using fallen Jedi?

 

Ah, yeah. Doctor Doom or Lex Luthor would be the archetype for my 'corporate execs' dark siders if we're going for famous examples. Not really good guys but aren't as much of a hindrance and can often be a temporary ally to the good guys or even be considered as 'necessary evil'. If you're out there looking to empower yourself, even if your goals can benefit others directly or indirectly, I wouldn't really say you're benevolent.

Also good read Gamiel. Very similar to the Order of the Canted Circle, I recommend Darth Plagueis if you're interested in it. Hell, I'd recommend to anyone to read Darth Plagueis even if they aren't.

 

I didn't like it there either.

To go off a point I made in another thread recently, this is another area where I wish the new EU was avoiding the old EU's mistakes.

 

I don't consider those to have been mistakes.

 

I don´t think the "Kylo Ren is not a Sith but idolizes Darth Vader" dichotomy has been mishandled at his point. It´s not a dichotomy in the first place, I think. Kylo Ren reveres Darth Vader, but there is even a dialogue in the novel where Snoke explains to him the one thing Vader did wrong in his otherwise "exemplary life", and that´s giving room to sentiment when the time came to deal with Luke. In that context, I think sentiment means good feelings towards Luke, but it could be read otherwise; perhaps, while the Sith are pretty much fueled by their feelings, the dark side order Snoke is trying to establish approaches the Dark Side pretty much like the Jedi approached the Light, in a sentiment free, perhaps even ascetic manner.

The Knights of Ren, for their part, had just one scene and pretty much distinguished themselves from Sith right there: they are 7, like the old canon´s Dark Side Adepts, and not limited to being 2. They apparently don´t use lightsabers and we still don´t know if they have the Force (hopefully they do). They are still open to be what I hoped them to be at first glance (modern day Inquisitors), or a cult following the long gone Sith, or even some kind of warrior monks utterly loyals to Snoke and his vision for the Galaxy. All in all, there is still too little information to dismiss anything yet...

 

I'm with Ghost. I don't mind weird and different applications of the Force, but the Nightsister magic as presented in TCW and Rebels is way too Saturday morning cartoon for me.

 

I was just thinking of using fallen Jedi with typical dark Jedi powers (pretty much anything a Jedi can do plus stuff like Force Lightning and Force Choke). The organization would be typical pirate stuff and the only Force user would be the leader.


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I don't mind darksiders, provided it's done well.