ST How TFA and TLJ work together

Exactly! I had my issues with TLJ, but this scene where Kylo kills Snoke and Rey and Kylo fight the guards is probably the best sequence in the movie. No problems with how this played out and Driver was great here. It was great.

 

I agree, I also have some minor issues with the movie, the whole reason I started this thread, is bc some posters are making stuff up to fit an agenda. if somebody doesnt like the movie I get it, it is not what they wanted; my problem is folks trying to make up plot holes that just dont exists bc they dont like the movie, or they say Rian threw everything JJ wrote out the window, which is also not true he answered almost all burning questions from TFA while raising some new ones. like will rey train herself or will luke come back to help, where are the knights of Ren, will hux try and take over the FO from kylo, How does the distribution of power now work in the Resistance, is it Poe, and than Finn or others since there is only about a 100 left. Will the characters split up and go to the outer rim and try and cobble together at least some kind of real army. Will Rey find other force users to help the cause. Im more interested in 9 now than I was after episode 7 and I love 7 and 8 now lol

 

I liked VII and i Love VIII.
I think that the evolution of KR is awesome. I don't care about the lack of info about Snoke: Ren becoming the Supreme Leader the way he did is just perfect.

 

I'm guessing JJ brings back the KoR for Episode 9. The concept being that they are Kylo's own group of warriors (some could be former students of Luke also!) and they have a base or temple on some other planet we haven't seen yet.

 

you know after three viewings I dont think kylo has any interest in being supreme leader of anything, that is hux. kylo is just using the First Order as a means to an end to seek revenge on his father, mother, uncle, and now rey. he is a lot like the joker to me, just wants to watch the world burn and than build something new from the rubble.

 

it doesnt.

Hairy alien says half of their fleet was destroyed on the SKB attack but in this movie they have MORE ships so half of their fleet wasnt destroyed, ha!

 

I don't know that Luke did make contact with anyone. He left Artoo behind, and Artoo could have witnessed everything that Han relayed to Rey. Luke might have left a message with Artoo, maybe, but, knowing what we know now, it was probably just something like "I screwed up bad, Ben turned to the dark side, I'm leaving, don't look for me." Seeing as how Luke was travelling by X-Wing and Artoo was his nav computer, he presumably used Artoo to help him plan the trip, then purged a key bit of navigational data from Artoo's memory banks. Artoo remembered enough to know where Luke was going, but not how to get there.

I'm more inclined to think that red line is just part of the map, and not a "Luke-tracker". With the way hyperspace travel works, a map to anywhere isn't just a picture of the galaxy ... it should also include a safe hyperspace route. ("Without precise calculations we'd fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova" etc.) I suspect that's what the red line is: navigational data from a known starting point to Ahch-to.

 

perhaps but there are also huge red dots at intervals I would assume those represents stops along the way, and either he checked in or someone saw him and reported it

 

Based on the info from TFA alone, that's a possible interpretation, but they could just also be turns in the hyperspace route. "Precise calculations" + "Kessel run in less than 12 parsecs" does suggest that hyperspace travel isn't a straight line between origin and destination. Based on the info from TFA + the info from TLJ, I'd say they're turns. Luke did just straight up tell us he didn't want to be found, after all.

 

true but at what pt of his journey did he decide that. was it at the start or was it after visiting certain temples that he got more disillusioned along the way. Its like he told lor sen teka he is checking out for some reason and gave him the last piece of the map just in case, and after that gave r2d2 to shut down and go into low power mode.

 

Wouldn't Kylo know about Acht-Tu then?

 

how

 

That's an incredibly interesting question. I'll give you my take, for what it's worth.

Luke's disillusionment with the Jedi was an example of motivated reasoning. Luke wanted to believe that the galaxy was better off without the Jedi. After all, if the galaxy didn't need the Jedi, then the galaxy didn't need him. In this sense, the arguments Luke made to Rey were excuses more than deeply-held beliefs or carefully-reasoned conclusions.

Luke was seriously snake-bit by what happened with Kylo. He'd made mistakes before, but he'd always been spared the worst outcomes of those mistakes. I have no doubt Luke would have loved to have his hand back, but objectively, his duel with Vader at Bespin could have, and probably should have, turned out far worse.

With Ben, Luke wasn't so lucky. He went to confront his nephew, and had a vision of complete, utter darkness and all of the death and destruction to come. And when I say "had a vision" I don't just mean he imagined it. This all literally played out right before his eyes. Luke igniting that lightsaber was the equivalent of Anakin sitting bolt-upright in bed after his first dream of Padme's death. It was an instinctive reaction in a moment of horror and disorientation. It passed quickly. It was the most momentary lapse. And it was absolutely catastrophic. It was as if all of the power of fate and destiny had turned its attention to crushing Luke Skywalker's spirit.

Luke is a guy who saw everything that he and his loved ones achieved destroyed by a single, instinctive, horribly wrong reaction. It's not disillusionment that Luke was really feeling. It's guilt, but more importantly, it's fear. Luke didn't trust himself anymore. That's why he walked away. Because on one fateful night he brought it all crashing down in less than 3 seconds of weakness, and he doesn't ever want to be in a position like that again. He fears he'll do more harm than good. He walks away, and tells himself he's doing the right thing, and then starts making up reasons why he's doing the right thing. The Jedi were vain. The light won't die. The Jedi had a history of screwups. Etc.

Yoda sees through this. (I think Rey instinctively does, as well, but not as clearly as the old master.) When Luke goes to torch the tree, he can't do it. Even Luke can't really believe his excuses anymore. To drive the point home, Yoda torches the tree himself, just to show Luke how he would really react to the end of the Jedi. ("But the sacred texts!") It's the last push Luke needs to get back into action.

And what action! When Luke finally comes back, we see:

1. Luke demonstrating his absolute mastery of the Force with what is by far the most powerful feat we've ever seen, in full view of the Resistance and the First Order.
2. Luke demonstrating the epitome of Jedi self-sacrifice to save the Resistance from total annihilation, and doing it in a way that is the ultimate expression of the Jedi ideal that "a Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack." Freakin' Space Gandhi here. "Disillusionment with the Jedi", indeed.

TFA tells us that Luke has become a myth in his own lifetime. TLJ shows us that there is a real, fallible human behind that myth, and then, in his death, reinforces that myth to the rest of the galaxy. Luke Skywalker goes out as an absolute LEGEND. That's Luke's story in the sequel trilogy, the story that TFA and TLJ work together to tell, and I love it so much.

 

Given his search for the First Jedi Temple was a part of TFA why wouldn't Kylo know about it?

 

I rewatched TFA yesterday and the movies just don't mesh. All the characters feel so different in TLJ and because TLJ pick up pretty much right where TFA left off then the difference in characterization is especially jarring. And the overall tone is also very different, of course.

 

I agree with most of what you say, but I do believe luke to an extent about the jedi and yoda does confirm it that the jedi were vain and a bloated bureaucracy at certain points but as rocky said in rocky balboa its not how hard you hit but how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward how much you can take. and luke at the end of the movie inspires a whole new generation of kids to spark the rebellion

 

he did know about it he just didnt have the map. that was at the start of TFA both poe and kylo were looking for the last piece of the map

 

I wanted to post this video in my thread bc it can finish up my through lines for me

 

Just a little thing I have to criticize...

I saw someone today on YouTube get so angry over the Rey Random thing, saying it had been built up in TFA that Rey was somehow connected to someone else.

But he is wrong. It really wasn't. Watch TFA again. Rey is build up to be mysterious and intriguing, but not necessarily that she is the daughter of some other Star Wars hero. Maz literally tells her that her family is never coming back, and that the belonging she seeks is in front of her. That should've been the end of it right there. Her family was unimportant, they're not coming back, and Rey is awesome because of who she herself is.

The whole thing about how she seemed to know Han or Leia is nonsense. She just connected to them so well because she never had a father or mother figure, and they became those figures to her. That's all.

 

I agree the only thing that ever made me pause and I blame JJ for this, is the scene where han is offering her a job, the way it is directed JJ makes han look like he feels guilty about something

 

Unfortunately, providing no answers to a mystery that was hyped as her is the equivalent of giving kid an empty present after teasing them that there's a bunny inside. People will only pay attention to the fact that there is no bunny (and be pissed off) and not the value of an empty box.

The problem is that TFA decided play mystery box with a character that should have been made clear that she is random from the start. Too much was focus on the mystery of her identity and parents that not enough was given about her motives and her issues. All I can recall is that she wants generic parents and that's it. Not a dream of having the Skywalker family be her family. Not a dream of imaging herself as a descendant of Jedi. Just regular parents which the film doesn't even bother to show.

As such, TLJ ended up making her into a pawn in the Skywalker drama. The moment that Kylo Ren enters into her mind, the film stops being about her in favor for Luke and Kylo Ren's story. Her story, her issues were nothing more than an afterthought that may or may not have some purpose (I can't even remember since I couldn't care about them). All because her issues were just mystery boxes with no satisfying answers; just cheap morals of ordinary people becoming heroes that have no emotional impact.

 

I guess that's what happens when you let two different directors write their own original stories.

 

That's why you need a George Lucas or Kevin Feige to oversee the entire project.

I wouldn't be surprised if turns out that George Lucas scrapped his original plan of having the directors make their own Star Wars episodes because he realize they were going in different, chaotic directions with no guiding principle (and saw what happened when you let an incompetent production handle Star Wars without his involvement: Holiday Special).

 

wrong wrong wrong, this whole movie is about opposing forces, choices, and failure... light to dark, master to pupil, royal bloodline (kylo) to a peasant (rey). everybody fails in this movie rey, kylo, hux, leia, rose, snoke, luke, poe, finn etc... thats what makes the yoda speech so important its is ok to fail as long as you learn from it and try to keep going. All the good guys do is fail miserably, but then learn from it and grow as characters. luke projects himself to save the galaxy after hiding for yrs, rey accepts who she is and realizes that its ok to stand on your on two feet, she isnt scared anymore to be alone (her parents being nobodies is central to her character growth from being co-dependent to independent.) leia learns that her son is indeed dead after she basically sacrifices han to him in TFA, Poe goes from hot shot to truly becomes a leader, Finn becomes a true rebel, and Rose realizes that even a pipe cleaner can be a hero if duty calls.

like I said the yoda speech to luke is a more eloquent version of this speech.

 

I feel exactly the same way.