How The Phantom Menace Killed the Star Wars Franchise

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by Jabbadabbado, May 25, 2002.

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  1. Darth23 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 1999
    star 4
    Including kids and families - something AOTC isn't getting enough of.
  2. Binary_Sunset Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 5
    I agree that Lucas has dropped the ball regarding the Clone Wars. Remember, in the OT the galactic civil war started in the opening scroll of SW and ended at the end of ROTJ. This gave a unity to the trilogy.

    In the PT, this is what we get:

    TPM: Nothing to do with the Clone Wars

    AOTC: The Clone Wars start at the end of the movie. Also, as pointed out above, it's primarily a bunch of droids and dehumanized clones duking it out. Further, both sides are the bad guys! I just didn't care which group of emotionless bad guys won.

    E3: ? I don't think Lucas can save the Clone Wars in this episode. The presuppositions set up in AOTC precludes that, I think. I just hope he turns in a movie that I can rate as high as ROTJ.
  3. Binary_Sunset Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 5
    Here's how I think the Clone Wars should have been treated:

    TPM: The wars start in the opening scroll. A group of evil humans dressed in the same kind of armor later worn by Boba-Fett are the bad guys. The Jedi are the good guys. (No droids or literal clones.) Obi-Wan and Anakin distinguish themselves amongst the other Jedi. Anakin displays great skill as a starpilot. At the end of the movie, Obi-Wan is made a general.

    AOTC: The Clone Wars have really heated up. Alderaan is almost destroyed, but thanks to Obi-Wan and the Jedi Alderaan is saved and the Clone Wars won.

    E3: In the aftermath of the Clone Wars, Palpatine seizes dictatorial powers on the pretext of preventing another war that would further reduce the galaxy to a shambles. Big conflict in this episode: The Jedi purge. The bad guys: The Imperials. The good guys: The Jedi. (Of course, it would be in this episode that Anakin turns to the dark side and helps Palpatine by betraying the Jedi.)

    *sigh* If only...
  4. Fluke_Groundjogger Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2002
    AOTC has been Number 1 for longer than Spiderman was. That's an accomplishment. And it easily made 300 mil.

    I don't know the rest of the stats, but I'm pretty sure AOTC made the All-Time 10 or 15.

    But who cares about box-office? ESB is considered the best, and it did worse than AOTC did (I think...not even 50% sure about that).
  5. JohnWilliams00 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 29, 2002
    star 4
    No, that's a common misconception. Actually, more tickets were sold for ESB than AOTC and TPM too (not combined of course). Adjusted for inflation, ESB is behind ANH, but ahead of ROTJ (slightly) and farther ahead than TPM/AOTC.

    http://www.boxofficereport.com/atbon/adjusted.shtml

  6. DarthHomer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2000
    star 5
    Binary, we all had our own ideas of what the clone wars would be before Lucas made the prequels. I myself imagined that the clone wars would take place before or during Anakin's training, and would be the Jedi's last heroic battle before the rise of the Sith. But Lucas chose a different route, apparently tying in the clone wars more closely with Anakin and the Jedi's fall. Since it doesn't directly contradict anything said in the OT, I have no problem with him surprising us.
    As for waiting for a film that ranks up there with ROTJ, I feel your pain. Personally, I've already seen one movie that equals ROTJ (TPM) and one movie that betters it (AOTC). But I hope Episode III does it for ya :)
  7. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    In the OT you got a sense that The Clone Wars were fought well over a generation ago, and before the rise of the Empire.

    Clones was great, and Lucas has surprised me with the direction he's gone in. But, that doesn't make it better. It seems so much of the Prequels are pre-ordained it would be hard to genuinely surprise people in a good way.

    The more I think about it, the more I wish Lucas would've made a sequel trilogy to the OT rather than the prequels. That entire era is open to ways Lucas could genuinely surprise us. Unlike the PT, where CERTAIN things have to happen, the ST would be wide open.
  8. LemmeSeeYaIYiYi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    Umm...Binary, the Galatic Civil War didn't start with A New Hope. Get a clue. It has been going on forever. As for your ideas, in the words of Samir, "yes, this is horrible, this idea." Stick to posting on the boards, not creating sagas. Good bid.


    Oh, crap, Bud Frescoe, we missed all that Galactic Civil War before ANH! Those 18 years in between! Oh **** the original trilogy is RUINED!!!! AAAAAHHHH. What are we going to do?


    You people are searching for reasons to dislike the PT again, and dumb ones too.

    Just tell me exactly how you show "most of the Clone Wars"?? And why you would. It's like, OK, so they're fighting.....2 hours and 10 movie years later, still fighting. You're a dumbarse if you want that.
  9. Binary_Sunset Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 5
    Umm...Binary, the Galatic Civil War didn't start with A New Hope. Get a clue. It has been going on forever.

    :confused:

    I don't know what to do with this one. Can anyone else doing anything with it?
  10. Binary_Sunset Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 5
    Given the track record so far, this is what I wish Lucas had done:

    Re-release the OT in theatres in 1998. NOTE: NOT the SEs. Just the real thing. I wish he'd never made the SEs. But there is one (and only one) change I wish Lucas had made to each. I wish he'd renumbered the episodes, thus:

    SW: episode II
    ESB: episode III
    ROTJ: episode IV

    Then release "episode I" in 1999, which would be essentially what episode III is going to be. Have just one prequel, instead of three of them.
  11. DarthHomer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2000
    star 5
    Binary, why don't you rename A New Hope Episode I and call the prequels Star Wars: The Blunder Years? [face_mischief]

    Getting back to topic, I actually think there's something in the "delayed reaction" theory explaining why AOTC is not doing as well at the box office as TPM did. TPM probably survived the backlash a lot better because of the excitement over it being the first film in 16 years, as well as curiosity from non-fans. But since most people were disappointed in TPM on some level, that dissatisfaction seems to have carried over to AOTC, even though it's clearly a better film in most people's opinion (present company excepted, of course). So I think that by the time Episode III comes out, the good feeling AOTC generated in the majority of fans will ensure more people give Episode III a chance.
  12. HavocHound Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2000
    star 4
    I've just gotta ask why you care about all this beuogeoi crap. Why does it matter how much money it makes? Why does it matter whether or not it outdoes everything else financially? Why does it matter how popular it is?

    These things are all irrelevant. All that matters is the individual viewer and whether they liked it or not. If they did, great. If they didn't, well, that's fine too.

    True success is not measured in dollars, nor by popularity. True success is measured by the heart of things.
  13. Ulaleros Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2001
    star 2
    well, its not totally irrelevant havoc....as lucas himself said, if aotc didnt make enough money, he would have to rethink things for episode 3. also, the amount of money a movie makes helps to determine how many similar movies hollywood will churn out. for example, if lord of the rings had bombed, its not likely we see another high fantasy film produced by hollywood in a long time. on the other hand, when teen horror flicks made money, hollywood started churning them out one after another. so, i wanted lord of the rings to make tons of money so that hollywood would make more fantasy films in the future.
    also, its kinda like a sports team... if you like a team, you want to see them win right? well, if you like a movie you want to see it do well at the box office.
  14. Darth_Poutine Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 20, 2002
    star 3
    ROFL

    Phantom Menace is a 450 million dollars flop. It only made that much money cuz of the nostalgia factor. Just like Lost in Space made $450M too.

    Oh, and AOTC is a big flop too with $300+ million under its belt...
  15. Duckman Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2000
    star 4
    The Clone wars should have involved every Jedi fighting an identical clone of himself, but 1/8 the size!
    Lucas screwed up royally!
  16. Lurking_Around Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 6
    Well, this thread took a humorous turn, didn't it?

    [face_plain]
  17. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Hey a little humour never hurt anyone. Helps keep us from getting too serious. As for that quote, Binary_Sunset, I'll give it a go:


    Umm...Binary, the Galatic Civil War didn't start with A New Hope. Get a clue. It has been going on forever.

    Actually in the opening crawl for ANH it specifically mentions the rebels stealing their plans in their first victory against the Empire. This to me implies that the Civil War is at least early on in the process. It's their first victory, if they had been losing for years, the rebellion would have been squelched by then.

  18. LemmeSeeYaIYiYi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    The Galactic Civil War essentially starts in AOTC. Its just in ANH, the sides that are fighting no longer exist. The Republic has been overtaken by Palpatine who creates the Empire, and the CIS is no longer in existance, many probably joining Sidious, others just vanquished. But the good ppl from the Republic set up the Rebel Alliance. I assume Bail Organa and Padme make steps toward this at the end of EIII.
  19. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    But the good ppl from the Republic set up the Rebel Alliance. I assume Bail Organa and Padme make steps toward this at the end of EIII.

    You assume much, young Padawan. Nothing has been stated here for certain. We will have to wait for Episode III to find out.
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